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Trojan
 BoatUS Boat Groups/Manufacturer Forums>>Trojan
Subject Topic: International Series Post ReplyPost New Topic
 
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RWS
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Joined: July 17 2006
Posts: 18
Posted: July 20 2006 at 08:00 | IP Logged Quote RWS

Trojan's International series of vessels was manufactured from about 1981 to 1993 and included vessels from 9 to 15 meters.  The styling which was considered radical at the time included the use of curved glass, radar arch, full liners, hollow stringers with the use of very little wood, pod type instrument consoles,and a Harry Schoel patented "Delta Conic hull with full legnth strakes. The industry took notice and  Trojan set the design trends for years to come.  The introduction of this setries was a Ten Meter (33') (not including bow pulpit or swim platform) with an unusually wide 13' beam. Built in Lancaster PA, by Pennsylvania Dutch & Amish craftsmen this series of vessel was popular for years. The Trojan company was later combined with Bertram, however after the mid 90's  fallout in the boat building industry  the Trojan name was aquired by Genmar, but not the rights to the Delta Conic design.  This series of well built vessels remain popular today and as such are often candidates for repowering and refitting.

 



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daxsteve
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Joined: July 20 2006
Posts: 4
Posted: July 20 2006 at 10:53 | IP Logged Quote daxsteve

I have a 1990 10 Meter Int'l. Just got her this past winter. She's spending the summer on Lake Michigan in Chicago.

So far, I'm pretty happy with this boat, although I wish the previous owner had taken better care of things. I've put in probably 100 hours just cleaning and making minor cosmetic repairs.

I still need to fix the sliding glass door to the cabin, buy a mattress of some sort for the front berth, and replace the on-deck refrig, but other than that we're in pretty good shape.

I'm still trying to understand why the deltaconic hull is supposedly so great. I have to have my trim tabs fully extended just to get this boat on plane, and even then I can't honestly say that the ride is any better than the 28' Sea Ray that we sold to get this one.

So..anybody have one of these and want to chat about it?



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1990 Trojan 10 Meter Int'l
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RWS
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Joined: July 17 2006
Posts: 18
Posted: July 20 2006 at 18:34 | IP Logged Quote RWS

Based on your post above it sounds like you are experiencing a serious performance problem.  With the 454's you should be able to see a WOT of 4400 RPM. If not then you need to determine why, and correct this condition. 

The Delta-Conic hull design is essentially three sections, the forward is the "Conic" that is the area with the sharp entry. The rest of the hull flattens out into a triangular shape, hence the name "DELTA" that is the flat surface that the vessel rides on once you are up on plane. The forward point of the triangle is actually LOWER than the rear of the hull, and the wide chines run the entire legnth of the hull providing for a dry ride even in the worst of conditions

I have collected a number of boating magazines from the time of this vessel's introduction and the writers comments are significant.  Send me your RPM's and the related speed, perhaps I can help you run down the problem.

I ran the 454's for 5 years and repowered this year to Yanmar 315 turbodiesels. This vessel rides like a 40 footer, handles like a sportscar and provides a dry, comfortable ride.

 

Here's a link...

 

http://www.goboatingamerica.com/boattests/DM_article.asp?id= 166

 



Edited by Sonja Lowe on September 24 2013 at 13:25


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RWS
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daxsteve
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Joined: July 20 2006
Posts: 4
Posted: July 21 2006 at 11:01 | IP Logged Quote daxsteve

Many thanks for the info and the offer to help figure this out. I'll take it out this weekend and get back to you with rpm's and mph's.

BTW, contrary to the impression I may have given in my 1st post, I really love this boat. The wide beam and general layout are exactly what I was looking for.

It's been a little frustrating having to spend half the summer cleaning and fixing this sucker...summers in Chicago are too short... but now that most of that is done, life is good

Thanks again.



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1990 Trojan 10 Meter Int'l
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daxsteve
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Joined: July 20 2006
Posts: 4
Posted: July 24 2006 at 11:39 | IP Logged Quote daxsteve

Me again.

Was on the lake yesterday... nice sunny day with maybe 2-3 foot waves.

WOT of 4100 rpm took me to around 28 mp. At around maybe 3400 rpm I was cruising at roughly 20 mph.

Of course, I had the trim tabs fully extended. Without that, the bow rides so high I can barely see where I'm going.

Whatcha think?



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1990 Trojan 10 Meter Int'l
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RWS
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Joined: July 17 2006
Posts: 18
Posted: July 28 2006 at 07:57 | IP Logged Quote RWS

DaxSteve:

Assuming the numbers you provided are MPH, I've converted my own knots to mph for comparison (this is with the old 454's NOT the new diesels I have now) 4300 RPM WOT = 31 mph ....... 3400 RPM = 23.3 mph.  I was swinging 4 blade props.  My data was put together with a digital tach/sync and gps.

I am assuming your 1990 vessel is a mid-cabin model. If it is, your engines are further aft than mine, and your props are smaller, but running faster with different ratio transmissions than mine.

Assuming your tachometers are accurate and also assuming you are using a GPS there are several things to address. 

First of all, from my own experience with the gas engines, if I had 8 or 9 people oin board, the livewell full and the extra on board freezer on deck as well, yes she would be ass heavy in the water and not ride well. My engines were a bit worn though, and she just didn't have enough stuff.  The factory tabs are 9" front to back. I upgraded mine to Bennett 12" with a drop fin which was a direct factory replacement, didn't have to change the actuators or anything.  The additional lift with these made a huge difference for the vessel especially when she was heavily loaded, and  changed the running angle. With these changes and also opening up the exhaust deflectors, increasing the size of the engine breathers and lubricating the spark advance mechanisms I was able to find a sweet spot economical cruise speed  @ 17.3 mph with a flowscan reading for  both engines of .93 mpg !

My gas engines were a bit tired so my data will be different than for fresh 454's and I babied them, rarely running her above 3000 RPM. Also if yours is has different transmissions, props & shaft angles, comparisions will be different as well.

The diesels changed everything. Now the boat runs like it should, the props provide enough lift that I never have to touch the tabs. She  remains at plane at 12 mph (no tabs), has a top speed of 32 mph and I can cruise all day at 25 mph and go twice as far on a gallon or tank of fuel which costs about .50 cents less per gallon. 

Your problem may not be any one thing but could be a combination of several. How much diferent is it when your fuel level is low? How much drag is being created by a dirty bottom ?  Are your tachs accurate and if so, why are you not reaching 4400RPM? Are you carrying around excessive  bilge water in and around the liner (aft)? among other things.

You can get an inexpensive bubble type incline level device West Marine/Boat US and attach it to a side window while at rest in the water with full water & fuel tanks. Then take the boat out and check your running angle. With the gas engines I ran 4.5 degrees @ 2700 RPM and 5.5 degrees @ 3200.

It would be interesting to compare our results.

Regards,

RWS



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daxsteve
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Joined: July 20 2006
Posts: 4
Posted: August 01 2006 at 10:55 | IP Logged Quote daxsteve

Too bad that my budget doesn't allow for new diesel engines... sounds like that would fix everything :-)

In answer to some of your questions: Fuel level doesn't seem to have a significant effect; the bottom is squeaky clean; and the bilges are all pretty dry. 

I measured my tabs yesterday and they are 8" front to back. I also heard from another 10 meter owner (responding to a post on a different forum) who found it necessary to lengthen his tabs.  So, I think that's my next step.

If that doesn't resolve the issue, I guess I can tell my wife to get a second job so we can afford the new diesels ;-)

Many thanks for all your helpful advice.  I'll try to keep you posted on my progress.

 



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1990 Trojan 10 Meter Int'l
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admorgan
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Joined: December 10 2006
Posts: 3
Posted: March 17 2007 at 22:19 | IP Logged Quote admorgan

RWS

I am looking for the correct prop pitch for 3 or 4 blade props for maximum speed. I have 671tib detroits in a 1991 12 meter sedan trojan. I am only getting about 23 knots a 2100 rpm. I thought these boats ran about 28 knots with these motors.

Thanks

admorgan

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RWS
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Joined: July 17 2006
Posts: 18
Posted: March 20 2007 at 07:00 | IP Logged Quote RWS

The question is ..... are the engines able to make thier rated RPM or not ? You will probably find your answer at boatdiesel.com, try doing a  a posting under your engine category. Also you will find some udeful calculators on that site.

 

RWS



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