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Captain Mark
"First Mate"




Joined: July 24 2010
Posts: 638
Posted: April 04 2009 at 16:03 | IP Logged Quote Captain Mark

I have two PERKO switches each switch has: 1, both, and 2 positions.  Each motor has a battery dedicated it's starter, however I think the switches may be wired incorrectly.  

If the port side motor is the number 1 motor does the port switch become the number 1 switch with the position 1 being dedicated to the port motor? In other words turning the port swith to the 1 position cranks the port motor, what is the 1 position on the starboard side suppose to do?  Is the starboard number 2 and is the starboard switch suppose to be in the number 2 position for cranking?  If I turn the port switch to the number 2 position is the starboard battery suppose to crank the port motor?

Is anyone following this?  Confusing at best.



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Captain Mark
1982 281 Catalina twin 305K's
Apostle Islands National Lakeshore
Lake Superior
Wisconsin
http://www.superiordaycruises.com
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diveryates
"Lieutenant"




Joined: January 02 2007
Posts: 845
Posted: April 05 2009 at 09:06 | IP Logged Quote diveryates

Mark.

The simpelest way to know how the wiring is set up to trace it.

Questions to answer:

1) Does the boat have a rectifier? This deviceconverts shore power to about 13-14 Volts DC so one can run the vessel's 12 volt systems ( ex; bilge pumps) with the batteries off. If the boat is eqiped with one , they were also used as a crude battery charger where in addition to running to the 12VDC buss, rectifier output ran to the batteries typically routed tothe starter lugs. The reasen this is an issue is that for tracing puposes, therectifier needs to be turned off or the issue is totally confused as you will have 13-14 VDC everywhere making it impossible to trace the battery switches.

2) are all the lugs on the battery switches used? It is possible that the '2'and 'both' lugs on the switch are not used and that the switch is used only to turn on and off one battery.

3) Is there a lead running from the starter lug on each engine through its respective circuit breaker located at the engine, then running to the 12VDC buss at the main panel. This means that either engine can supply the buss with 12VDC.

4) can One battery runboth engines? If so, then Question #2 doesnt apply and tracing how that works will need to be done. EG: either question 2 or 4 apply, but not both.

I'm pretty sure there are schematics forthe twin engine set-ups, but I have a single and my drawings do'nt apply. Guys? In any case even with schmatics it would be prudent to trace and confirm - all boats have a maddening way of not conforming to their original design. These changes sometimes are a small but critical thing and understanding the boat particular foibles is a good thing.

Now that I've clarified things so they are crystal clear, you can now go out in the middle of the ocean unperturbed!

Diver



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Roy & Laurie, S.F. Bay Area
'83 280, hardtop, single 305
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Captain Mark
"First Mate"




Joined: July 24 2010
Posts: 638
Posted: April 05 2009 at 10:53 | IP Logged Quote Captain Mark

Diver,

I have traced the wires from and to.  Someone has been tinkering.  A little knowledge is a dangerous thing with some people.

My boat does have a rectifier and the leads run to the port motor.  I took the PERKO switches off and routed the terminals as I determined to be correct.  I took a look at a diagram from PERKO and from Guest. 

My way of thinking is that there should be a #1 and #2 motor with corresponding batteries.  So when the switches are in #1 then both engines will crank of the #1 battery and so forth.  I believe running with the switches in the 'both' position is probably the way to go. 

However, I realize that the accessories are an issue.  My boat has accessories running off both batteries.  Nav lights on starboard, dash lights on port ect.  SInce i just replaced all swithces and fuse holders I was able to see the actual circutry.  I'm not sure why CC did what they did.  It would be advantageous to have a battery(starting)for each motor and have a house battery for 12v accessories.



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Captain Mark
1982 281 Catalina twin 305K's
Apostle Islands National Lakeshore
Lake Superior
Wisconsin
http://www.superiordaycruises.com
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Captain Mark
"First Mate"




Joined: July 24 2010
Posts: 638
Posted: April 05 2009 at 10:55 | IP Logged Quote Captain Mark

 

 

http://www.perko.com/PERKOCat305/Sections/LightFixtures.pdf



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Captain Mark
1982 281 Catalina twin 305K's
Apostle Islands National Lakeshore
Lake Superior
Wisconsin
http://www.superiordaycruises.com
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Captain Mark
"First Mate"




Joined: July 24 2010
Posts: 638
Posted: April 05 2009 at 10:55 | IP Logged Quote Captain Mark

Page 16 of the presvious link will show the schematic from PERKO

__________________
Captain Mark
1982 281 Catalina twin 305K's
Apostle Islands National Lakeshore
Lake Superior
Wisconsin
http://www.superiordaycruises.com
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diveryates
"Lieutenant"




Joined: January 02 2007
Posts: 845
Posted: April 05 2009 at 14:46 | IP Logged Quote diveryates

 

Mark,

Ok,  you have a rectifier. FYI: The rectifier is located aft, portside behind the fuel tank and buzzes all the time when it's on, you can tell that's it from the sound. It's in a sheet metal breadbox- this model is bulletproof. AC power runs to it from the rectifier breaker panel in the main cabin. DC power output from the rectifier then runs forward into the engine compartment. On our boat, rectifier output tapped into the DC power buss at a Isolator lug when we were using the rectifier as a charger...definately not the case now- I wired in a 'smart charger'. More on that later if interested. Just turn the rectifier off while tracing- you will still have AC power for a droplight- what have you. The rectifier does not have enough amps to start engines- you'll just get a 'clicking'- same by the way as when you have a low battery.

Review some basics:

The Battery switches are associated with engines- not batteries. Meaning their function is to shut off power to it's associated engine- one switch for port engine and one for the starboard engine.  

Battery switches control the positive side of batteries. Battery grounds go directly to engine ground lugs. On twins, there should be a ground strap tieing both engines in a common circuit...you might want to confirm a ground strap is in place. 

C.C. did a nice job of wiring their boats and their schematics are easy to read if one can be located for you.

Both engines should be able to individually, provide power to the boat's entire DC buss: a wire from the starter lug of each engine's circuit breaker, hence into the boat harness and on into the DC panel. From the Main Panel, a heavy guage wire is routed up through the head's bulkhead by the rudder gear to another buss-bar attached to the control panel housing for everything on the control panel- guages, switches- everything. 

Having two batteries, you should have a battery isolator factory installed. Our boat has the Guest Mdl#2401 (I think it's factory). All isolators work the same.  You might want to ID yours to be sure, then go to (probobly) the Guest website for wiring detail and testing procedure- basically diode checking- for two batteries there are three diodes used- these things are very reliable and I would be suprised if one of the diode's gone poof.

After thinking about this, I think this is how it's wired: Positive leads from Batteries 1 and 2 are secured to their respective lugs on either one (doesn't matter which one)- of your two Battery switches- the selector switch lugs will be labeled 1,2 and out, common...something like that. Then, a jumper wire was added from this # 1 lug and goes to the #1 lug on the other Battery switch. Same deal for the #2 lugs.   The output lug (the lug which outputs your selection)  then goes to the starter lug on that switch's associated engine.  This should be easy enough to check.

Anyway, go slow, enjoy. After a while, it all starts to make sense. If you get confused- stop, relax, think. When I get stuck, I use one of the most useful items in my toolbox- a rag. I grab my trusty rag, stand back, relax and slowly clean my hands while a-pondering.  When in doudt, ask. We'll sort it out. With electricity, each step must be clear and testing to have been made sense before moving on.

Diver 

 

 



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Roy & Laurie, S.F. Bay Area
'83 280, hardtop, single 305
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Captain Mark
"First Mate"




Joined: July 24 2010
Posts: 638
Posted: April 05 2009 at 16:25 | IP Logged Quote Captain Mark

Diver, the rectifier is as you say, it hums, buzzes as you say.  I haven't used it very much I didn't know if it would over charge my batteries.  I would like to get more info on the smart charger.

I have traced most ofmy wiring and pretty much got a grip on what is what.  The switches I have are PERKO swithces.  They were wired incorrectly but I have them sorted out and I have wired them as you have indicated.  This was the way that I envisioned the battery switches to work too. Is the battery isolator you refer to different than the switches that are located under the step?

 



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Captain Mark
1982 281 Catalina twin 305K's
Apostle Islands National Lakeshore
Lake Superior
Wisconsin
http://www.superiordaycruises.com
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Nauti Cat
"Commander"




Joined: September 14 2007
Posts: 1049
Posted: April 05 2009 at 19:46 | IP Logged Quote Nauti Cat

Hi guys,

Mysingle engine Cat has 2 combo (deep cyc/start) batteries,  one group 24 and one group 27 (not sure why 2 sizes but that is what was installed) and last season I replaced both with West Marine brand batts.  They are connected to a Perko switch (1-2-both-off).  2 is the battery that starts the motor and 1 is the battery that runs the windlass, but I am not sure whiich battery is which, I need to trace the cables.  The rectifier was converted to a Guest 2 bank battery charge but again, I am not sure which battery is connected to which light...I need to trace them out and cannot assume the wiring is still routed as stock because most of the singe engine Cats came standard with only one battery unless mine was added with the windlass originally or sometime after.

 

Tom



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Nauti Cat in NY
Formally owned by a
1985 Catalina 280

"MY WAY"
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Nauti Cat
"Commander"




Joined: September 14 2007
Posts: 1049
Posted: April 05 2009 at 19:56 | IP Logged Quote Nauti Cat

I noticed that the wires on these two bolts are not connected to anything on the inside of the hull just next to the engine.  There are wires connected to all the seacocks.  What is the purpose of these wires and these 2 bolts?

This photo is the exterior of the hull where these bolts are holding:

 

What should the wires on the bolts be connected to?

 

As always, I appreciate the help!

 

Tom

 



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Nauti Cat in NY
Formally owned by a
1985 Catalina 280

"MY WAY"
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Nauti Cat
"Commander"




Joined: September 14 2007
Posts: 1049
Posted: April 05 2009 at 20:18 | IP Logged Quote Nauti Cat

Today I worked on the first window...removed, cleaned (gelcoat and aluminum frame) resealed with 3M 4000, new SS screws.  Two of the interior curtain rod holders were incorporated into the window frame, the SS bolts were frozen in the aluminum spacer/sleeves and I had to drill these out, which was the only issue.

Some photos:

 

One down, 3 windows and a new deck hatch to go!

 

 



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Nauti Cat in NY
Formally owned by a
1985 Catalina 280

"MY WAY"
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BillB
"Seaman"




Joined: May 24 2008
Posts: 64
Posted: April 05 2009 at 20:29 | IP Logged Quote BillB

Looks like a Dynaplate.

From the Guest website:
Dynaplate Grounding Shoes

Safety Benefits of Proper Bonding and Grounding
A proper bonding and grounding system using Dynaplate grounding shoes will not reduce the chances of a lightning strike on your boat. It will, however, reduce the possibility of severe hull damage and electrical shock potential.  A proper bonding and grounding system using Dynaplate shoe(s) will help provide a direct, controlled high-capacity path for lightning dissipation.

Enhances Electronic Performance
SSB and AM radio transmitters rely upon a proper size ground to operate to their designed capacity. A dynaplate grounding shoe helps provide a large solid surface (the water surrounding your boat) to "push off" from. This is technically known as "counterpoise", and the other necessary half of your antenna system.

The bronze Dynaplate material also serves as the next sacrificial metal on the galvanic scale after your zincs, providing another buffer against corrosion of stainless steel parts.


Here's the manual:

http://www.marinco.com/files/support/product/manuals/dynapla te_1.pdf




Bill



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1984 Catalina 280
Barnegat Bay, NJ
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BillB
"Seaman"




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Posts: 64
Posted: April 05 2009 at 20:30 | IP Logged Quote BillB

< http-equiv="Content-" content="text/; charset=utf-8">< name="ProgId" content="Word.">< name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 12">< name="Originator" content="Microsoft Word 12">

Hey Tom:

Any 280 with one battery got a second when the Norcold 12v. refer was ordered. The 280 Perko battery switch was jumped between 1 & 2, and the Norcold was the only draw on the second battery. This was my set up when I got my boat, and the only change the PO made was to replace the rectifier with the usual Guest 2 battery charger and going with Wal Mart car batteries. He brought them back every year, complained they were flat and got pro-rata replacements. Whan I didnít do that the firstyt year, I found the flat batteries were caused by a bad combiner and an alternator that produced 13.4 volts tops.

Itís all better now. I went with the Blue Sea switch and combiner package and everything charges fine. The Wal Mart batteries are now 3 years old and full of juice.

Bill

 



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1984 Catalina 280
Barnegat Bay, NJ
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Nauti Cat
"Commander"




Joined: September 14 2007
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Posted: April 05 2009 at 20:39 | IP Logged Quote Nauti Cat

Thank you for the info and Dynaplate link Bill, I will read up on it.

 

Tom

 



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Nauti Cat in NY
Formally owned by a
1985 Catalina 280

"MY WAY"
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Nauti Cat
"Commander"




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Posts: 1049
Posted: April 05 2009 at 20:46 | IP Logged Quote Nauti Cat

I just read the document and it seems to be primarily for certain electronic devices such as a Loran, which my Cat once had.  (I still have the unit and antenna if anyone is interested, it is a Metrologic Loran C - free, just cover shipping or pick up if you find yourself on Long Island! I never used it but think it still works).

(Thanks again Bill)

Tom

 

 



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Nauti Cat in NY
Formally owned by a
1985 Catalina 280

"MY WAY"
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diveryates
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Joined: January 02 2007
Posts: 845
Posted: April 05 2009 at 22:53 | IP Logged Quote diveryates

Great posts! A lot of very good info is passing through.

Bill,  you're absolutely right. The 280 schematic notes confirm a refrigerator option necessitating the addition of the second Battery and isolator. 

On our boat, we use identicle batteries. The labels say they are for both starting and deepcycle duty. I've heard Windless setupa are a different animal. From what I've read the ideal location for a windless battery would be forward, close the windless motor so as to minimize voltage drop caused by the some 20' of power cable needed if the battery is aft- but this is not a perfect world and battery weight forward is an issue.  The grounding plate feature is something I've heard about, but really know nothing about- cool. Another example of the value of our forum.

Looks like you're really going to town on the windows- it's great to be able to upload photos is'nt it?. If I hear you correctly, the side windows are secured by SS wood screws and sealent. Looks like you did not touch the sliding window assembly- you removed the entire thing and secured/resealed the parimeter. The front window securing is the same as the sides- right? 

Mark,

As mentioned above, if you have the factory refrigerator option, an isolator is installed. On out boat, It's located just to port in the engine room on the bulkhead. I can't be sure of this as you have twins. Go to the Guest website and you will see a picture of it and then you can locate it by sight. As to the rectifier: a lot of people have disconnected the old unit and installed a dual battery smart charger with a DC output feature for the boats DC buss while on shorepower.

I did it a little different: I continued to use the rectifier for the DC shorepower supply. I tapped into the AC line supplying the rectirier for a seperate AC line for the smart charger located onhe cockpit support post in the engineroom. Along with the charger, I installed a standard outside lightswitch for the charger. This way, if I have problems with the chargers, I still have DC power from shore through the rectifier.

Diver

  



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'83 280, hardtop, single 305
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Captain Mark
"First Mate"




Joined: July 24 2010
Posts: 638
Posted: April 06 2009 at 07:33 | IP Logged Quote Captain Mark

My boat is equipped with a factory installed refridge.  I have been up and down my boat through out this lay up season and I haven't found anything that looks like an isolator.  It's possible that it was located on the bulk head but it was rtemoved.  The halon system looks to be something that was added by the po.

 



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Captain Mark
1982 281 Catalina twin 305K's
Apostle Islands National Lakeshore
Lake Superior
Wisconsin
http://www.superiordaycruises.com
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Nauti Cat
"Commander"




Joined: September 14 2007
Posts: 1049
Posted: April 06 2009 at 07:54 | IP Logged Quote Nauti Cat

Hey Diver -

If I hear you correctly, the side windows are secured by SS wood screws and sealent.  Yes, I used the same size wood screws with oval philips heads and squeezed a dot of 5200 into each hole to ensure they stay put, then the 3M 4000 sealant as the "gasket" between the aluminum frame and gelcoat.

Looks like you did not touch the sliding window assembly- you removed the entire thing and secured/resealed the parimeter. Correct, I took the entire assembly out as one unit.  I still need to replace the rubber/felt window track which is pretty much dry-rotted and the windows do not slide easily.

The front window securing is the same as the sides- right? Yes, the front windows secure to the fiberglass with the same screws and should be the same.  I am hoping the seal between the glass and aluminum is still sound...looks like it is but will know more once I remove the rubber molding.

 

Regardiing the battery for the windlass, sounds like a good idea to have the power source closer to the bow, I will have to look into that but it does seem to work ok.  I do run the engine when hoisting the anchor...especially to position the boat, remove most of the tension and bring the boat straight over.  Luckly for me, most of my anchoring is in 6-10' of water so I am not typically pulling in more than 70-80' of rode (no chain, clean sand bottom, 10-1 scope.  My secondary anchor has 10' of chain in case I find myself in other waters.)

 

Tom



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Nauti Cat in NY
Formally owned by a
1985 Catalina 280

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BillB
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Posted: April 06 2009 at 08:42 | IP Logged Quote BillB

< http-equiv="Content-" content="text/; charset=utf-8">< name="ProgId" content="Word.">< name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 12">< name="Originator" content="Microsoft Word 12">

Two things:
Tom: could you take pictures of the complete disassembly of the front windows? The method of disassembly is still a mystery to me.

Mark & Diver: Locating the windlass battery forward is a good idea for minimizing cable heat buildup and voltage loss while using the windlass, but it will still require using large cables in order to charge the battery. You can't get away from the big expensive cable run if you are depending only on the alternator to charge the battery.

Bill



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1984 Catalina 280
Barnegat Bay, NJ
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Nauti Cat
"Commander"




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Posted: April 06 2009 at 08:54 | IP Logged Quote Nauti Cat

Bill,

I will take photos and post them.  I am not planning to remove the glass from the aluminum frame, only reseal the frmae to the fiberglass as I did on the side window.  If the glass to frame is leaking, I will call a pro to do the job should the glass break, hopefully that can be done with the assembly in place.

Tom

 



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Nauti Cat in NY
Formally owned by a
1985 Catalina 280

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BillB
"Seaman"




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Posted: April 06 2009 at 10:21 | IP Logged Quote BillB

Here's an article from Blue Sea on adding a forward battery. Note the charging cable sizes.

Bill


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diveryates
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Posted: April 06 2009 at 11:34 | IP Logged Quote diveryates

Hi Bill,

A windless power supply project is as you observe: Feasability dependent on use. One might be able to use the load cable running forward as the charging feed from an altinator, but the voltage drop is still an issue (albiet less critical as it's charging only) overcome only by a thicker cabling or doubling- expensive. There's also be the question of  grounding. Your windless already has some sort of grounding or the thing wouldn't work- thickness of the ground cable is the same issue as power feed cable(s).

There was a good discussion on the sliding window mechanics on the Constillation forum last year around October. Window design is identicle and they went into some length in their discussion-particularly in removal/install procedures of the sliding assy. very informative  and if I read it right, a potential pain. Repairability was dependent on the ability to clear away corrosion and not damaging potentially brittle seals.

Mark- Ain't that the way with boats? I rooted around for a photo of our isolator, but alas for naught.  I'll send you a PDF of the electrical drawing from C.C. if it helps- your call skipper. Let me know what your Email address is and I'll send a copy.

diver



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Roy & Laurie, S.F. Bay Area
'83 280, hardtop, single 305
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BillB
"Seaman"




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Posted: April 06 2009 at 12:43 | IP Logged Quote BillB

Hey All:

The window thread starts September 10, 2008, a bit further then half down the page, with "Baysailors" post.

Tom: Any samples in from "Aluminium 2000" yet?

Bill


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1984 Catalina 280
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Nauti Cat
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Posted: April 06 2009 at 13:55 | IP Logged Quote Nauti Cat

Bill,

Yes, I did receive the samples:

The rubber/felt track is not the correct size, trying other leads to get it.

The rubber molding that covers the screws fits but is a little too wide causing the surface to wrinkle.  This is 60 cents a foot from Alum 2000 (part number 30-1079) and the one from Chris Parts is $1.32 a foot.  I need to get a sample from Chris Parts to see if it is the same or better to warrant double the price.

The rubber molding (part number at Alum 2000 - 30-1021) that goes between the glass and aluminum frame is correct and is $3.75 at both Chris PArts and Alum 2000.

 

Tom

 



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Nauti Cat in NY
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1985 Catalina 280

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BillB
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Posted: April 06 2009 at 17:09 | IP Logged Quote BillB

Tom: What was the Aluminum 2000 part for the track that did not fit? Do you have the part number?
Could you tell the size?   I have measured the outer track of my side windows and it seems to be anout .6" in the main chanel and .575" at the top of the chanel. The upper part of the chanel (where the rubber sits, not the drain area) is 7/16" deep.

How close was the sample?

Bill


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1984 Catalina 280
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Nauti Cat
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Posted: April 06 2009 at 17:48 | IP Logged Quote Nauti Cat

Hi Bill,

The Alumn 2000 part number is 30-2008, which is the smallest one they have with the correct shape and felt on the surfaces that touch the glass.  It was significantly larger than what I have and would not fit in the track, about .25" too big in height and width.

I am trying to get in touch with the original manufacturer...waterbonnet, now owned by Taylor.  I am waiting for a reply to my email, I will let you know what they say.

 

I went down to the boat a little while ago as we are getting the heavy rain and no leaks on the newly sealed window!  The others are leaking like crazy, will get them done soon.

 

Tom

 

 



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Nauti Cat in NY
Formally owned by a
1985 Catalina 280

"MY WAY"
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BillB
"Seaman"




Joined: May 24 2008
Posts: 64
Posted: April 06 2009 at 21:26 | IP Logged Quote BillB

< http-equiv="Content-" content="text/; charset=utf-8">< name="ProgId" content="Word.">< name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 12">< name="Originator" content="Microsoft Word 12">
I may have something.

It's here: http://www.jcwhitney.com/ALL-RUBBER-WINDOW-CHANNELS/G P_2009944_N_111+10201+600003827_10101.jcw
Yes, J.C. Whitney.
For all of us who may remember the hood ornament bomber with lights in the engines (oh, I'm talkin' the 60's here), this may not seem too real to think JC actually has something useful to offer, but who knows.
Will someone else go to the link and take a look? Seems too good to be true.

Specs look almost right. My outer channel width is .573" (micrometer reading). This piece (style 22) is .578125"(37/64"). Channel height in the upper half (above the drainage section) is .4376" (7/16"). This piece is .5625" (9/16"). It would stick out 1/8". Does anyone think this may be a problem? Could Sunlight deteriorate the rubber? And, BTW, gotta drill my own holes.

It will be dryer and lighter tomorrow morning in my corner of the world, and I'm going to re-measure.

Bill


PS: found it by accident. I swear.





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1984 Catalina 280
Barnegat Bay, NJ
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Nauti Cat
"Commander"




Joined: September 14 2007
Posts: 1049
Posted: April 07 2009 at 13:08 | IP Logged Quote Nauti Cat

hi Bill,

I checked out the JCW link, they look like the correct style but come only in 8 foot lengths...may not make a difference to have a seem in the track, cant be any worse than the dry-rotted rubber that is in there now.

To do the tracks in one piece, we will need a 9 footer for the lower track which will give a couple of extra inchess to trim off and a 10-11 footer for the upper track that angles down to meet the lower track in the bottom corners of the frame.

Chrisparts told me the track used to come on a 300' roll but is no longer available. 

It may be worth ordering one piece from JCW to test.  Sunlight seems to cause everything to deteriorate, I am sure this is no different, but if we get another 20+ years out of it, may outlast my ownership of the boat.

Taylor Marine is sending me a sample of their track to check size and fitment, I will let you know.

Tom

 



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Nauti Cat in NY
Formally owned by a
1985 Catalina 280

"MY WAY"
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BillB
"Seaman"




Joined: May 24 2008
Posts: 64
Posted: April 07 2009 at 14:40 | IP Logged Quote BillB

Hey All:

I've been doing more research and re-measuring, and I have put together a 3 page Word document with all the measurements and parts numbers (except sealant) to reseal the windows. There is one part I am not sure of; it is the vertical seal listed by ChrisParts.com. There is a note to that effect.

If anyone wants a copy send me an email and I'll send it out to you. I'd appreciate any constructive criticism. If you have any additions, I'd like to know about that too.

Bill


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1984 Catalina 280
Barnegat Bay, NJ
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Nauti Cat
"Commander"




Joined: September 14 2007
Posts: 1049
Posted: April 07 2009 at 20:19 | IP Logged Quote Nauti Cat

Hi Bill, I would like to see what you put together, please email to me at tg-426@hotmail.com   Thanks!

 

To the rest of the Forum, I could use some help.  The boat yard wants to do the tune up tomorrow so I went down there this evening to install the batteries, they are fully charged.  All my wiring is exactly the same as last season however I cannot get any power to anything on the boat (horn, bilge pumps, ignition, lights, wipers, windlass etc.) checked each position on the batt switch.

Last year I had an intermittent issue with the battery switch (Guest 1-2-both) so I thought that was the culpret after sitting all winter.  I Ran to Westmarine, bought a new Perko 2-batt switch, connected it wire for wire and still nothing.  I connected my jump-starter to each of the batteries and tried all combinations, still no power to anything.  All the cables are in decent shape, I cleaned all the terminal ends.

On my previous boat with a Johnson outboard, there was a main fuse under the engine cover and when that blew one time I had power to nothing on the boat, similar to the current condition.

Have any of you experienced such a problem?  The boat yard will try to tune it up tomorrow and I am sure to get a call about the problem and if I let them do the work, I will probably end up paying them a ton of $ to troubleshoot and fix it...but I would like to know if anyone has had this issue and what you did to resolve it.

Thanks - you guys are invaluable!

 

Tom

 



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Nauti Cat in NY
Formally owned by a
1985 Catalina 280

"MY WAY"
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Captain Mark
"First Mate"




Joined: July 24 2010
Posts: 638
Posted: April 07 2009 at 20:56 | IP Logged Quote Captain Mark

Tom,

You need to get a multi meter and check to see if you have full battery charge(12.6-12.7 v) at the sarter solenoid. or at the output wire of the altenator.  If not, your problem is between your battery and starter.  Check ground straps, ect.  If so check your nuetral saftey switches from you transmission.  Make sure you're not trying to start in gear.  Check your ignition fuses and check the fuse holders.

 

Mark



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Captain Mark
1982 281 Catalina twin 305K's
Apostle Islands National Lakeshore
Lake Superior
Wisconsin
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Captain Mark
"First Mate"




Joined: July 24 2010
Posts: 638
Posted: April 07 2009 at 20:58 | IP Logged Quote Captain Mark

Bill, can you send me your list at mhazelquist@bellsouth.net

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Captain Mark
1982 281 Catalina twin 305K's
Apostle Islands National Lakeshore
Lake Superior
Wisconsin
http://www.superiordaycruises.com
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Nauti Cat
"Commander"




Joined: September 14 2007
Posts: 1049
Posted: April 07 2009 at 21:26 | IP Logged Quote Nauti Cat

Thanks Mark, but I am not getting power to anything at all (bilge pumps, lights, horn, etc) as if there are no batteris connected, yet all the wiring is the same as last season.  The batts read approx 12.5/12.6v via my charger (not the one in the boat, a home AC charger).

Other thoughts?

 

Thanks!



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Nauti Cat in NY
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1985 Catalina 280

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diveryates
"Lieutenant"




Joined: January 02 2007
Posts: 845
Posted: April 07 2009 at 21:30 | IP Logged Quote diveryates

Tom,

You will need a DC volt meter set to > than 12VDC.

Secure one of the voltmeter leads to ground on the engine. You will trace Positive power:

 Confirm 12VDC at Pos. Battery post.- if nothing- check ground post to engine. Then the input lug on the Bat. switch: read 12VDC.  Read Output  lug of Bat. switch to Starter Lug= 12VDC.  Locate the wire running from the starter lug to engine circuit breaker located front, starboard, top of engine- read 12VDC on engine side of circuirt breaker- you may have to disassemble the breaker mount to get at the breaker nuts, but do it- this check is critical... Sometimes the breaker lug nuts work themselves loose and you get nothing beyond that. The schematic says the wire from the Starter  is Red,#28, 8 gage- to the engine circuit breaker. Next:  Critical! Read 12VDC on the boat side of the engine circuit breaker. If you can't read 12VDC on the boat side of the engine circuit breaker- it may be tripped- attempt to reset it, read 12VDC on the boat side.  From here there are two wires: one is #45, black, 8 gage and goes to the DC breaker panel in the cabin. The other one ( the one you're primarily concerned about) should be #28, red, 10 gage and goes into the boat harness through its big connector - can't miss it. The other end of this wire(#28, red, 8gage) is connected to a 20A fuse mounted either in or on the pilot console- The only way to be sure is to remove the screws securing the console and supporting it so you can see underneath---find the 20a fuse with the #28 wire connected to it. From this fuse the schematic says there's #3wire running to the 'B' on the ignition switch- read 12VDC at the 20 A fuse. This fuse also feeds the blowers, lights, guages etc- everything on the pilot console.

There are further checks, but if you're not able to fire up anything on the console...you have no power to it...start with this- you will probobly find the problem.

Diver  

 



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Roy & Laurie, S.F. Bay Area
'83 280, hardtop, single 305
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Captain Mark
"First Mate"




Joined: July 24 2010
Posts: 638
Posted: April 07 2009 at 21:40 | IP Logged Quote Captain Mark

You will need a volt metter or at least a test light to see if juice is getting to the solenoid.  You need to verify power coming into and leaving the battery switches.  If you have no power anywhere, start with your ground straps.  Remove the bolts and inspect the contact.  Take a wire brush after the cable and the grounding terminal.  On my boat the grounding terminal is a stud on the engine block.  There are at least 6 to 7 wires running to it.  If any of those wires forms oxidation it could break you circut.  Check the positive terminal at the battery for any corrosion.  You could eliminate the switch by using a jumper cable from you battery to the solenoid or starter. 

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1982 281 Catalina twin 305K's
Apostle Islands National Lakeshore
Lake Superior
Wisconsin
http://www.superiordaycruises.com
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Nauti Cat
"Commander"




Joined: September 14 2007
Posts: 1049
Posted: April 07 2009 at 21:55 | IP Logged Quote Nauti Cat

Thank you Roy.  I will print your instructions and check it out tomorrow, and stall the yard mechanic from doing any work.  I already have the panels removed in the head under the helm and behind the breaker panel assuming that is what you are referring to as the "pilot console".  I also have a photo of the motor from when I had the intake replaced and see the harness I think you are referring to(circled in red).

 

Thanks again,

Tom



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Nauti Cat in NY
Formally owned by a
1985 Catalina 280

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Nauti Cat
"Commander"




Joined: September 14 2007
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Posted: April 07 2009 at 22:02 | IP Logged Quote Nauti Cat

Thank you Mark.  I will have my volt meter in hand and do that testing, and check the ground strap.  That makes sense to me now, that if there is a break in the circuit that nothing will work. The only terminal ends I did not check and clean were on the motor.  I did not realize that a break in the circuit here may cause a "no power to anything" issue and not just a "no start" issue.

 

Thanks,

Tom



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diveryates
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Posted: April 07 2009 at 22:39 | IP Logged Quote diveryates

 

Tom-

Good start! The Pilot console is the the plastic molding the engine guages are set into.- sorry, wasn't clear.

Further hints-

Question: with the rectifier off and the Battery switch 'on', do you get function at the cabin DC panel (water, cabin lights)? Power to the pilot console and the DC panel come from the same place- the engine circuit breaker located at the engine.

Clarification: You will have voltage to the starter solnoid connector only when you hit the 'Start' on the ignition switch. Whereas-as long as the Battery switch is on, you have VDC at the starter lug and hence to the VDC buss.

The usual suspects: Engine circuit breaker or connections thereof or a connection problem to or at that 20A fuse terminal.  A blown 20A fuse would not cause the blowers, bilge pumps etc to not work- they're fused individually. The incoming VDC wire merely uses the fuse's input connector as a terminal post.

Screwed to the pilot console plastic ( it's non-conductive) there is also an accessory buss bar and grounding buss for all console circuits. 

To be clear: VDC running from the 20A post to the guages merely supply power for the guages backlights. volts, Oil, temp, fuel sense circuits power up only when the ingition switch is 'on'.  

Diver

 

 



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Roy & Laurie, S.F. Bay Area
'83 280, hardtop, single 305
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Nauti Cat
"Commander"




Joined: September 14 2007
Posts: 1049
Posted: April 08 2009 at 10:02 | IP Logged Quote Nauti Cat

Roy,

in my Cat, the rectifier was removed and replaced with the guest battery charger, so I may not be able to run that test.  Thank you for the rest of the tips, I will try everything from you and Mark this evening.

 

Tom

 



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Nauti Cat in NY
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1985 Catalina 280

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diveryates
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Joined: January 02 2007
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Posted: April 08 2009 at 10:25 | IP Logged Quote diveryates

Tom,

Not sure what test you're refering to.

All testing we're discussing is done with the boats batteries only. Any source of VDC other than that, like battery chargers need to be off, as in disconnected... to be sure. Otherwise, meaningful testing is not possible.  AC power on the boat's ok, just nothing DC like the output of a charger on any of the boat's DC circuits.

Diver



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Roy & Laurie, S.F. Bay Area
'83 280, hardtop, single 305
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Nauti Cat
"Commander"




Joined: September 14 2007
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Posted: April 08 2009 at 11:17 | IP Logged Quote Nauti Cat

Hi Roy,

 

I understand what you are saying now, I was referring to your question:

Question: with the rectifier off and the Battery switch 'on', do you get function at the cabin DC panel (water, cabin lights)? Power to the pilot console and the DC panel come from the same place- the engine circuit breaker located at the engine.

To answer that, with the batt switch on and no AC power connected, there is no function at the DC panel.

 

Thanks,

Tom

 

 



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Nauti Cat in NY
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1985 Catalina 280

"MY WAY"
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