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diveryates
"Lieutenant"




Joined: January 02 2007
Posts: 845
Posted: June 16 2012 at 14:39 | IP Logged Quote diveryates

Hi Beartooth,

Frankly, not withstanding possible old fuel and crud in the tank, I think you gotta winner.

1) If you're in the Great lakes- it's likely the boat has been used, possibly exclusively in fresh water making the manifold and risers less of an issue- it's salt that eats those things.

2) There is no engine heat exchanger reinenforcing the notion this is a fresh water boat.

3) Marine Power engine--hmm, ok. It's possible the raw water pump is different from what I'm familiar with or even there may be no ne...I think it does, but without a look-see, one can never be sure. If you have good outflow from the exhaust pipes, odvously the raw water pump (if there is one) is working. Your indicated temps sound good, and if there is not a lot of bearing noise from the pump (again, if you have one)- the old addage applies: 'don't fix it if it ain't broke'. I think you need to put some hours on this lady, go yachting and see how she shakes out. Learning/relearning the ways of open water will be, at the least - educational.  

4) I'm not real familiar with the plumbing layout on fresh water boats. I can say that there are quite a few generic cooling layouts used by CC based on operating environment and usage. Suggest you research, possibly on-line to match up a cooling circuit diagram with what what you have aboard.

Maybe it's time to look at the creature comforts in the cabin, women folk like that. 

We keep Lorelei in a slip in The City- the common name used by locals for San Francisco. Sometimes we don't even go anywhere- just lounge around, look at the stars, fog, skyscrapers, city lights and stay overnight tied up and on shore power- all the comforts of home.

Look forward to photos of your new 280...

Enjoy Captain- you ain't diggin it, you're doin it!!

best, Roy (Diver) 



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Roy & Laurie, S.F. Bay Area
'83 280, hardtop, single 305
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JimInFla
"Deckhand"




Joined: September 09 2011
Posts: 142
Posted: June 17 2012 at 10:28 | IP Logged Quote JimInFla

A surveyor once told me something useful about engine hour meters.

They only thing they truly tell you is how many hours are on the meter.

 

Jim



__________________
JimInFla - Jacksonville, FL
"The Hard Six"
1986 Catalina 293 Express
www.thehard6.com
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diveryates
"Lieutenant"




Joined: January 02 2007
Posts: 845
Posted: June 23 2012 at 19:28 | IP Logged Quote diveryates

Ahoy fellow skippers!

Hope everyone’s enjoying lazy summer days and checking the Forum posts. It’s unfortunate Boat U.S. changed their rules concerning posts. However, I will endeavor to persevere and continue to post on subjects near and dear to our Cats.  

To this end, I have completed an essay on raw water pumps. More specifically the Jabsco part # 43210-0001, arguably the most common raw water pump used on the 280 engines:  Mercruiser 230 and 260s. The link below is the specification sheet and covers most details of disassembly, assembly and installation:

http://www.depcopump.com/datasheets/jabsco/43210-0001%201999 .pdf

The essay amplifies some of the insights I gained in doing a complete rebuild.

1)      Pricing. A complete pump runs anywhere from $290.00 to $700. It does pay to shop around! Jabsco offers various kits depending on how deep one gets into the rebuild. There is an impellor kit p/n 90196-0001 for $102.49 from boaterplus.com. This was the best price I could find online. Jabsco certainly is out to make money- they do have that right…it just seems a bit excessive at times- case in point: The two bearings used:

http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/PROD/6204-2RS-1

 Retail, a distributor for Jabsco asks $55.00 each (p/n 18753-0318).  They know that the only way to identify these bearings is to disassemble the pump 1st.  Most normal people won’t think to do that. I made the expensive mistake of ordering all the parts before disassembly! That said,   the bearings are the only generic parts available outside Jabsco. Non-the-less $2 vs $55 is a chunk of change. We’re stuck with Jabsco for the other parts. This just illustrates the profit margins possible in the parts… dare I say ‘racket’?!

 

The other kit needed for a complete rebuild is the cam/wearplate kit p/n 43176-1000 ($62.00).

 

2)      There was some debate as to the ability to replace the pump’s impellor on the engine. I found this to be impossible. The pump must be removed 1st. As mentioned in previous posts, the best way to deal with a failed pump is to carry a spare.

below:

      Cap removed. Note the tools I used to get the impellor out. No way these tools would have had room to work if the pump was on the motor. Even off the motor, it was a chore. I beat up the impellor just getting it out.  

I will continue the essay in the next post. I can't upload any more on this post.

Diver

 



Edited by Sonja Lowe on September 25 2013 at 17:55


__________________
Roy & Laurie, S.F. Bay Area
'83 280, hardtop, single 305
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Happy Hour III
"First Mate"




Joined: February 13 2007
Posts: 572
Posted: June 23 2012 at 21:06 | IP Logged Quote Happy Hour III

Hey Diver Very nice ! Love the detail very helpful . I was not happy about what Boat US did to this amazing forum. I am a memeber of Boat US I love the service they provide. It really is the best $140.00 you could ever spend for piece of mind. I really like the new forum started by captain Rick . He did a very nice job on the site. I hope you join you give some much info and knowledge . You have helped me for years . I too still look and read on this boat us site along with the new one.

 

www.chriscraftcatalinaclub.com



__________________
Jim-Happy Hour III
1983 Chris Craft Catalina281
Twin 5.7 Mercruisers Repowered
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Happy Hour III
"First Mate"




Joined: February 13 2007
Posts: 572
Posted: June 23 2012 at 21:13 | IP Logged Quote Happy Hour III

Beartooth best of luck with your new boat. here is the other website we use . Great guys All Chris Craft Catalina Captains . A great site. Looking forward to seeing you there. Also very easy to upload pictures there too.

 

www.chriscraftcatalinaclub.com



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Jim-Happy Hour III
1983 Chris Craft Catalina281
Twin 5.7 Mercruisers Repowered
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Beartooth
"Seaman"




Joined: September 17 2009
Posts: 21
Posted: June 25 2012 at 21:43 | IP Logged Quote Beartooth

Good evening all,

Diver, Your write-up is excellent. I can't wait for the rest. I have not had a chance to get pictures of the front of the motor with the pump. Here are a couple of ones of the boat in general though.

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diveryates
"Lieutenant"




Joined: January 02 2007
Posts: 845
Posted: June 26 2012 at 07:41 | IP Logged Quote diveryates



__________________
Roy & Laurie, S.F. Bay Area
'83 280, hardtop, single 305
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diveryates
"Lieutenant"




Joined: January 02 2007
Posts: 845
Posted: June 26 2012 at 08:54 | IP Logged Quote diveryates

Essay Continued...

Prevous post above:

The 'wear plate' removed. This plate has locator indents and 'floats' behind the impeller. Behind the plate is the casting's bore where the pump's shaft comes thru. The shaft is is sealed by an 'o' ring inside a groove cut in the casating's bore in front of a pressed in shaft seal. Both parts are replaced.

 



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Roy & Laurie, S.F. Bay Area
'83 280, hardtop, single 305
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JimInFla
"Deckhand"




Joined: September 09 2011
Posts: 142
Posted: June 26 2012 at 09:11 | IP Logged Quote JimInFla

Wow, three of those impeller blades look really bad! Good
thing you replaced it!

Jim

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JimInFla - Jacksonville, FL
"The Hard Six"
1986 Catalina 293 Express
www.thehard6.com
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JimInFla
"Deckhand"




Joined: September 09 2011
Posts: 142
Posted: June 26 2012 at 09:12 | IP Logged Quote JimInFla

Beartooth, is your hard top factory?

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JimInFla - Jacksonville, FL
"The Hard Six"
1986 Catalina 293 Express
www.thehard6.com
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Beartooth
"Seaman"




Joined: September 17 2009
Posts: 21
Posted: June 26 2012 at 20:17 | IP Logged Quote Beartooth

Hi all,

I can not seem to log on at work or otherwise I would have been on all afternoon.

Jim, the top is factory original.

Thanks all

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Happy Hour III
"First Mate"




Joined: February 13 2007
Posts: 572
Posted: June 26 2012 at 21:20 | IP Logged Quote Happy Hour III

Beartooth , She looks amazing , lots of luck .

Projects of projects brewing up , I found a 291 in really nice condish. I am thinking of buying it and putting the bridge on my 281 ????? I will keep you posted. I posted pictures on www.chriscraftcatalinaclub.com

 



__________________
Jim-Happy Hour III
1983 Chris Craft Catalina281
Twin 5.7 Mercruisers Repowered
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diveryates
"Lieutenant"




Joined: January 02 2007
Posts: 845
Posted: June 26 2012 at 23:30 | IP Logged Quote diveryates

Beartooth,

Have to agree with Happy Hour, a classic Chris Craft in fine condition! Well done  Captain- you should be proud.

Jiminfla-

When I pulled off the raw water pump's end cap, the impeller was actually fine. I did tear it up getting it out. Being that I have a new new pump on the engine, the whole point of the excercise was to learn the ins and outs of dealing with a pump rebuild and the question of wether a impeller could be replaced while on the engine. Answer: damned near impossible!  There was a fair amount of this curious mix of pulverized salt crystal and what I think was powdered sand. A result from the crushing movement of the pump's interor parts. Anyway, this noxous mix may have resulted in a fairly gluish mess which may have caused more of the pump's stiff operation than anything else when the pump dried out some period of time after shutting down. Anyway, that's my story. I'm sticking to it till something better comes along...

My effort to post the raw water pump essay is glitchy on the thread...trying to come up with a reliable way of getting on the Forum... ugg!  It may be that I will have to post the content elsewhere and setup a hyperlink...one way or another I'll git-r-done...

Roy (Diver) 



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Roy & Laurie, S.F. Bay Area
'83 280, hardtop, single 305
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diveryates
"Lieutenant"




Joined: January 02 2007
Posts: 845
Posted: June 28 2012 at 23:10 | IP Logged Quote diveryates

Raw water pump essay continued-

After removing the pump's wear plate, it's time to remove the shaft.

Remove the nut securing the pulley adaptor. Tap off the pully adaptor from the pump shaft.  With the pulley adaptor off, remove the 'C' clip locking in the two bearings and shaft in the pump housing.  You can see the 'c' ring groove in the pump's housing bore. Remove the shaft key as seen below. Retain the key. 

With th e 'C' clip out, tap out the pump shaft. I used a 10" long X 3/8 inch steel bar stock to drive out the shaft.. see below. Any flat bottom punch that is long enough will do.   

Shaft romoved!

Below- note the cracked, worn anti-splash 'O' ring. The positioning of this 'O' ring is shown in the drawing on the spec sheet assembly drawing.  See the Jabsco link in my 1st post of the essay. In any case, the photo shows the correct position. This 'O' ring is not in any of the kits so a trip the hardware store is in your future. You don't need to be perfect in sizing this "o" ring. It only needs to be snug around the shaft. Clean up the shaft using a scotch Guard pad.  

In the next posting, we will continue disassembly and get to what I think was the core reason the pump needed to be rebuilt. Hint...it was NOT the impeller!

Stay tuned... Roy (Diver)



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Roy & Laurie, S.F. Bay Area
'83 280, hardtop, single 305
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Beartooth
"Seaman"




Joined: September 17 2009
Posts: 21
Posted: July 02 2012 at 21:47 | IP Logged Quote Beartooth

I finally got a chance to take a couple of pictures and dig a little into the water pump.

Here is the motor as seen from the compainway

Here is the access to the front of the engine after pulling the removable stairs

Here, I have removed the waterpump belt and pully.

So here is my first question regarding this issue. Do I unbolt the waterpump and pull it out of the front of the bracket? If this is the case, it looks like I have to unbolt the tension arm for the alternator.

Next, I had just run the motor for about 4 minutes at idle and a little above to work on another issue, Should the water pump be HOT after this? it was only a few minutes, the temp gauge is showing 150-160 and does move, but the water pump was hot and so were the manifolds.

Thanks

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Beartooth
"Seaman"




Joined: September 17 2009
Posts: 21
Posted: July 02 2012 at 21:58 | IP Logged Quote Beartooth

Next and bigger question:

For the love of God and all that is Holy, why am I loosing RPM's?

The day I brought the boat home, I was running at 4500 rpm.

 2 days later, it would only go 3900 rpm. I thought it might be a plugged fuel filter so I replaced it high-flow (60 gph) Racor unit. I gained about 100 rpm back from that.

This wekend, the boat would only run about 3700 rpm. I checked the fuel filter, I drained about a quart out of the plug at the bottom, no junk, no water, the fuel flowed out very freely until I shut off the shut-off on top of the tank. (Mental reminder, I left that off, need to remember to turn it back on before I head out again).

I thought maybe the throttle cable had streteched and be hitting a stop somewhere, but I played with the motor end and at idle, the end of the cable lays right where the knob on the carb is. If it had streteched, I think that would be so.

Could this be an spark issue? Am I looking the wrong way with the fuel flow? Bad plugs, wires, rotor, etc? The distributer is only a year old.

Could this be a tune-up issue? I can access the timing marks on the front of the motor through the stairway hatch. I will need a mechanic for this, Its been too long since I did any timing with a light and need a refresher course.

Could this be a problem with ethanol in the fuel? I think the PO used non-ethanol fuel, but I got at least one or two tanks worth on 10% when I brought it home. I am using ethanol free 90 octane from my marina right now and have rane more than a tank through.

Any suggestions would be great.

thanks

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Beartooth
"Seaman"




Joined: September 17 2009
Posts: 21
Posted: July 02 2012 at 22:09 | IP Logged Quote Beartooth

Hey Diver,

I just reread your first response to me.

You mention the filter ecreen on the carb. Where is this and what does it look and where exactly is it located. I looked very carefully and could not see anything that I felt should come out easily. It is on the carb, not the fuel pump, right.

Secondly, same question regarding the anti-siphon valve on the fuel tank. What does it look like? Is it on the main fuel line from the tank to the filter to the motor, or is it on the vent line? Can I assume that its purpose is to prevent the tank from forming a vacuum?

Thank you.

 

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Nauti Cat
"Commander"




Joined: September 14 2007
Posts: 1049
Posted: July 03 2012 at 10:29 | IP Logged Quote Nauti Cat

Happy 4th Captains! 

 

 



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Nauti Cat in NY
Formally owned by a
1985 Catalina 280

"MY WAY"
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Happy Hour III
"First Mate"




Joined: February 13 2007
Posts: 572
Posted: July 03 2012 at 10:55 | IP Logged Quote Happy Hour III

Same to you Tom & all caps  ! Beartooth looks good. Did you try

www.chriscraftcatalinaclub.com  great site .



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Jim-Happy Hour III
1983 Chris Craft Catalina281
Twin 5.7 Mercruisers Repowered
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diveryates
"Lieutenant"




Joined: January 02 2007
Posts: 845
Posted: July 03 2012 at 11:20 | IP Logged Quote diveryates

Hi Beartooth,

Good work, The photos are a big help!

Engine servicing and troubleshooting is largely a process of elimination and simplification.

From you description, I'm thinking fuel starvation. At least it should be easy to eliminate as a possibility. 

1) On Lorelei, the anti siphon valve is inline at the fuel tank petcock. It is basically a one way valve allowing fuel to flow to the carburetor but not back to the tank.

Below: This is on Lorelei:  (circled in green) is the fuel output assembly including a tube penetrating the tank where gas is sucked in. Then, to a petcock to shut off fuel flow. Then, (circled in red) is the anti siphon valve. What happens is that something like hair, chips of rust etc gets into this valve. The obstruction allows some fuel flow but restricts so that there is not enough fuel flow to achieve W.O.T.(wide open throttle)- classic fuel starvation as your 4500 to 3700 RPM symptom suggests.  If you have a A.S. valve, it's probably located there, up-stream from the petcock. This is so you can shut off fuel flow and remove the A.S. Valve for inspection. This device really looks more like some sort of fitting...but don't be fooled. It must be removed to check it...to see if there is ANYTHING in it. It is spring loaded... if there is one on you boat. A magnifying glass and fine tweezers may come in handy. Be careful, don't damage it. That said, this is a common part, available from West Marine or any marine supplier.

  http://www.westmarine.com/buy/products/20008-3-8-3-8-npt-alu minum-anti-siphon-valve.html

 

2) The fuel screen is where the fuel line enters the carborator. When you remove the Carborators fuel line fitting and pull it out, the screen is there.

3) I do not think the throttle cable is stretched.

4) This engine is an unknown quantity. Suggest pulling the sparkplugs (keeping them in order to get a clue as to how the cylinders are firing) and do a compression check. I think it's a good idea to have a professional set the timing and replace the points and condensor, unless records indicate these have been recently replaced. After being sure there is no fuel restrictions, teh mechanic can adjust the Carborator. Suggest being there to obsverve the ins and outs of this process. Suggest photographing and taking notes.

Cooling system:

No- hi tempratures should not be happening with the raw water pump. This suggests flow restriction somewhere or worn bearings in the pump. This is not the same pump as I have, but these things are all similar function-wise.

I think the two bolts not only adjust the belt tension, but also mount the raw water pump to that plate. Spritz the bolts with WD 40 before removing.

Going thru the manifolds, the risers and the water lifts aft would be a really good idea. Sourcing replacement gaskets and having them in hand 1st would be a good idea.

Your off to a good start!

best, Roy (Diver) 

 

 



Edited by Sonja Lowe on September 25 2013 at 17:57


__________________
Roy & Laurie, S.F. Bay Area
'83 280, hardtop, single 305
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JimInFla
"Deckhand"




Joined: September 09 2011
Posts: 142
Posted: July 03 2012 at 15:48 | IP Logged Quote JimInFla

Wow, Beartooth...

Your hatch configuration is nothing like mine. I have 2 hatches
that cover the engine port and stbd, and then another aft of
that that covers that fuel tank and the running gear below.

Wonder if your boat has been re-decked?

Jim

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JimInFla - Jacksonville, FL
"The Hard Six"
1986 Catalina 293 Express
www.thehard6.com
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diveryates
"Lieutenant"




Joined: January 02 2007
Posts: 845
Posted: July 03 2012 at 19:27 | IP Logged Quote diveryates

Beartooth,

The more I think about it, the more I'm thinking the bearings on you raw water pump may warrent a close look. Both symptoms of a hot pump body and reduced WOT RPMs could be caused by worn bearings loading down and they could be starting to seize up. To check this,  the pump and the impeller needs to be removed. Then check the bearings for sideways play and smooth, free rotation. Before disassembly, suggest locating gaskets and impellor kits etc. As mentioned in the raw water essay, there's a good possibility you can get the bearings inexpensively if you can get the numbers off the old ones. 

OR

Buy a replacment pump and rebuild this one...if in fact the bearings are gone.

Jimin fla,

If I'm not mistaken, CC used Beartooth's boat's hatch arrangement on their Cat models 1979 and before. Yours is a 1986 model year. My '83 has the same side-by side hatch arrangment with a lazerette  hatch immeadiately aft. I think 'CC Rider' has the same year as Beartooth with a smooth running 350 cid. We took her on a 70 NM run about a month ago.

best, Roy (Diver)

 

  



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Beartooth
"Seaman"




Joined: September 17 2009
Posts: 21
Posted: July 03 2012 at 20:57 | IP Logged Quote Beartooth

Hi All,

Jim, I beileve one of the reasons my deck hatches are the way they are is because I have a single engine. I think the side-by-side hatches were were for twin engines?? I may also just be irrisponsibily speculating too. I have not looked deeply into your profile.

Diver. I will check out the anti-siphon valve and the screen on the carb tomorrow. Interresting about the water pump bearings. I could turn the water pump by hand but it was not easy. Being new to this, I figured that was normal as the impeller blades flex in and out. I could only turn it one way, (the correct way, this is normal).

 I only took off the belt and pully to see what the pump looked like. I reassembled it again.  I will take it apart next week for an in-depth investigation. I would like to get a new pump, but if I can rebuild it I will. I have to get a plug for my water intake hose to plug it while I do the pump as the seacock does not shut off. I know, I know this is not a good situation, the seacock is very stiff and only moves a little bit & I don't want to break it in the water. I will replace it at haul out in the fall with a new one and strainer, but can only do so much right now.....

Thanks all. I will let you know what I find.

Beartooth

 

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JimInFla
"Deckhand"




Joined: September 09 2011
Posts: 142
Posted: July 04 2012 at 09:32 | IP Logged Quote JimInFla

Beartooth,

I have a single too, but my engine hatches are configured the same as
twins. Makes getting not the engine compartment pretty easy.

Jim

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JimInFla - Jacksonville, FL
"The Hard Six"
1986 Catalina 293 Express
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Nauti Cat
"Commander"




Joined: September 14 2007
Posts: 1049
Posted: July 04 2012 at 10:58 | IP Logged Quote Nauti Cat

my single engine 1985 Catalina 280 also had the 3-hatch configuration creating wide open access to the engine compartment.  I beleive the older single engine Catalina's had the smaller hatch similar to all of the 251 Catalinas.

Beartooth, what year is your 280?



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Nauti Cat in NY
Formally owned by a
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Beartooth
"Seaman"




Joined: September 17 2009
Posts: 21
Posted: July 04 2012 at 19:52 | IP Logged Quote Beartooth

Good evening all,

Jim and Nauti, Ok, My Bad. I guess they changed their tooling over the years for the hatches. I see where a double-wide would be nice working on the sides of the engine.

I dove into the fuel flow issue again today. I took off the fuel inlet on the carb and found the striner screen. The screen was clean except for a few (maybe 25) strands of a celulose material. I assume this came from one of the filters over the years.

It was plastic so it obviously was not original. It is a good thing I did this as the flare nut on the copper fill line was loose and leaked when I moved it. I did have to loosen and lift the carb about an inch to get the fittng to come off. When I reinstalled the strainer and reattached the flare line to the elbow, I used a little sealant where the elbow screws into the cap for the strainer.

Then I looked into the antisiphon valve. I found the valve on top of the tank, right where Diver said it would be.

I only problem is that it was 96 degrees out and the sun was beating down on me in the bilge with no breeze down there. It got so hot that the screw driver kept slipping. I will wait until it cools off in a couple days. I don't have enough room th swin a wrench vertically  to get this out, so I may have to take off the elbow-shutoff-antisiphon assembly out to be able to get into this.  I will keep you posted.

Thanks for everyone's help. Have a happy forth. We are heading out on Saginaw Bay in a few to try to see some fireworks.

 

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Beartooth
"Seaman"




Joined: September 17 2009
Posts: 21
Posted: July 08 2012 at 20:58 | IP Logged Quote Beartooth

Good evening all,

I just thought I would share a picture from the fireworks last night. The city of Bay City celebrated their 50th anniversery of fireworks last night by launching 50,000 fireworks in 50 minutes. They close one of the bridges in town and launched them over the river. It was a good show.

I put an arrow pointing to our boat. The river has a 4 knot current flowing downstream towards the bay, but with an 8 to 10 mph wind, blowing upstream all afternoon, so everyone set their anchor off their bow and the wind held them against then current so everyone could sit on the back of their boats and watch the fireworks. About half the people set stern anchors to hold their positions because of all of the other boats. Boats arrived all afternoon and continued this practice. The fireworks began at 10pm, at 10:35 mp, the wind all stopped and the current proceeded to try to push every boat downstream towards their bow anchors. those of us with a second anchor were no better because all the boats upstream began to come towars us. about 10 minutes later, the wind picked up and tried to spin everyone around again. Therefore,  we had 1000 boats, many of them with captians who had been out all afternoon and were a little "overserved" all with their anchors twisted around each other  in the dark.

Being smaller and not rafted to anyone, we were able to up anchor,  zip around the mess and get out easily back in the slip by midnight.

 

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Nauti Cat
"Commander"




Joined: September 14 2007
Posts: 1049
Posted: July 08 2012 at 22:02 | IP Logged Quote Nauti Cat

we swung by SF Bay area and spotted Roy on Loreli:

 

a closer look...

haha...actually it was Lego Land in Florida

 

 

Nice fireworks Beartooth...great photo, that must have been some scene!

 

 



__________________
Nauti Cat in NY
Formally owned by a
1985 Catalina 280

"MY WAY"
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diveryates
"Lieutenant"




Joined: January 02 2007
Posts: 845
Posted: July 10 2012 at 23:04 | IP Logged Quote diveryates

Thanks Nauti!

The City in...Lego?  who knew...

Beartooth,

You got the photo thing down! Very cool. The more I look at your boat, the more I like it! This is a cool boat

Diver



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Roy & Laurie, S.F. Bay Area
'83 280, hardtop, single 305
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Beartooth
"Seaman"




Joined: September 17 2009
Posts: 21
Posted: July 11 2012 at 20:48 | IP Logged Quote Beartooth

Good evening all,

Diver, Thank you. I love my boat. The admiral has only been on a couple of boat rides and one 10 day charter in the BVI's before she became The Admiral. She already has 2-foot-itus......

I got a chance to spend a couple hours playing with the anti-siphon valve for the fuel line. I pulled it off and it was.......clean as brand new. I blew air through it both ways and it functioned as it should. I poked it with a screwdriver and it operated easily. On a whim, I blew a couple of lung-full's of air back into the tank through the suction port  until I heard the gas bubbling good on the chance that there was something stick on the end of the pick-up line.

I will give it a try this weekend. If this does not solve it, I will probably try cleaning the carb good and spraying carb cleaner around the carb to look for air leaks. Then I will replace plugs, plug wires and work my way to the distributer. By then it should be fall and time to haul the boat.....

Thanks all.

Beartooth

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Happy Hour III
"First Mate"




Joined: February 13 2007
Posts: 572
Posted: July 14 2012 at 22:23 | IP Logged Quote Happy Hour III

Bear I dont think 4500 is a safe rpm for the motor I think wot is 4300 . I read that in the book. I have twins new 350's and I never really go over 4000 rpm.  I hope you get your issue all worked out.

__________________
Jim-Happy Hour III
1983 Chris Craft Catalina281
Twin 5.7 Mercruisers Repowered
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Beartooth
"Seaman"




Joined: September 17 2009
Posts: 21
Posted: July 15 2012 at 12:24 | IP Logged Quote Beartooth

Hi all,

Jim, I understand about the WOT, I don't plan on running at WOT ever. the problem is that on the original ride home Memorial Day weekend, I got it up to 4500 rpm with what felt lke a little in reserve. Now I can't get that. 

Yesterday, I went out for a ride by myself out into Saginaw Bay. I had hoped that by blowing air back through the suction port of the fuel tank, I might have dislodged some debris from the pick-up tube and that would solve my problem. I throttled up and........I could only get it to 3000 rpm. I understand this is a family friendly forum, but WHAT THE FUDGESICLE. I went out a ways into the bay and open the engine hatch. I tried reving it in neutral and could get to 5000 before I backed off. I took off the flame arrester and sprayed carb cleaner around it looking for leaks. No change. I tried reversing hard, neutral, then forward hard. Then I cleaned out the carb good and tried again. Back to 3900 rpm. Ok. Whew. Maybe the carb was dirty? Maybe there were some weeds on the prop? ( I did not see any in the water after reversing.)

Anyway. I went out and anchored out a boater's beach for the rest of the afternoon and just bobbed in the waves watching the idiots with very long speed boats and very short winkies trying to impress the barbies. When I went to leave, I opened the hatch and just checked things over. All looked good, the motor was cool to the touch. When I started it, the temp gauge went instantly to 150. Has it been doing this all along? Who knows. Where is the best way to diagnose if it is a bad sender or bad gauge? Is that the sender right on top of the motor by the carb? (Yellow wire in one of my pictures from 7-4-2012)

This morning I pulled the water pump off. It took about 20 minutes. I will take it apart at home and replace the impeller this week. It turns easily by hand so it may not need a complete rebuid.

Have a good afternoon all.

Graham

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JimInFla
"Deckhand"




Joined: September 09 2011
Posts: 142
Posted: July 15 2012 at 12:42 | IP Logged Quote JimInFla

Graham,

Have you checked your raw water intake / strainer for debris? I wonder
if you may have a water flow issue coming into the engine?

Just a thought since you seem to have tried most everything else...

Jim

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JimInFla - Jacksonville, FL
"The Hard Six"
1986 Catalina 293 Express
www.thehard6.com
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Beartooth
"Seaman"




Joined: September 17 2009
Posts: 21
Posted: July 15 2012 at 13:08 | IP Logged Quote Beartooth

Jim,

I plan on checking the bottom of the boat next weekend out in the bay. I don't want to dive under the boat without someone around...just in case. I do have good water flow into the boat from the hose from the seacock. Seacock does not work and there is a wood plug hose clamped in the end of the hose right now. It does flow freely though. Seacock is on my list for this fall to replace. I know, not safe, but the boat is insured well.

I do seem to have good flow coming from the exhausts when the boat is running.

I do have the waterpump apart and am missiing two blades on the impeller. 3 more ready to break off.

Pictures to come later.

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diveryates
"Lieutenant"




Joined: January 02 2007
Posts: 845
Posted: July 15 2012 at 16:07 | IP Logged Quote diveryates

Hi Beartooth,

Sounds like you're moving along well by running the boat. Sounds to me that the indication is that the boat has not been run for some time and that cataloging her various ailments is the order of the day. Running her is how to get specific on her issues.  From what I'm hearing, you seem to have two issues not directly related.

1) Cooling

   a) Temp indication: If the gauge is responding in any manner, I'm thinking the gauge is good. Usually if a gauge goes bad, it goes 'open' meaning no response at all- look to the sender 1st. procedure for checking a sender is simple and info is on line. May be just simpler to replace it, they are not expensive. 

   b) raw water pump: straight forward. Suggest straight up replacement if you can afford it and locate one.  Gives you time to do a rebuild on the old one at your leisure. This link may help for match up and shop around:

 http://jabsco-pumps.net/jabsco-2.html 

2) Low RPM. If you were getting 4500 RPM in gear at one point even if for a short burst, I'm thinking the engine's carb and ignition's ok- at least basically. You have eliminated fuel starvation. Carb problems are usually surging, bad idle, sputtering. Primary Ignition is usually cutting out, instantly dying- no coughing, sputtering.  To really check basic engine function- pulling the plugs, inspecting their color and wetness, buildups etc and doing a compression check (all plugs out) is an important 1st step.  This will confirm basics of the rings and valve train which I'm suspecting are fine as well.  Beyond this, If all you are seeing is low WOT RPM and the engine's running smooth, I'm thinking check the running gear. Talk this over with good prop shop pro 1st describing what you're seeing. Then, If the prop guy concurs, have a diver pull the prop and send in to check/adjust pitch, prop condition etc, A good diver will also be able to check play (or tightness) in the strut bearing.

You're doing great...this is getting sorted out.

Diver



Edited by Sonja Lowe on October 04 2013 at 17:41


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Roy & Laurie, S.F. Bay Area
'83 280, hardtop, single 305
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Beartooth
"Seaman"




Joined: September 17 2009
Posts: 21
Posted: July 15 2012 at 20:44 | IP Logged Quote Beartooth

Hi all.

I have the raw water pump apart and it seems to be in good shape. The shaft spins freely and (other than the old bad impeller) is good. No play ether lateraly or transversly in the shaft. No grinding or bumping with the bearings. West Marine had the replacement impeller in stock, so I am going to clean up the pump and reassemble it tonight. (I actually came inside to look at a couple of pictures to make sure I assemble it with the impeller correctly).

As far as the engine temp, is the sender located right on top of the motor near the fuel supply lines by the carb? I have a picture a few posts back with a yellow wire on it. I will go ahead and replace it soon.

I originally asked about being under propped back when I joined the forum. I think getting a diver to lay in the dioxin filled ooze under the boat is asking a  lot. The saginaw river is not especially clean, but it is what I have to work with. There is only about 2 feet of water under the bottom of the boat in the slip right now.  I am going to leave the running gear issues until the end of the season when the boat is hauled. That will leave me all winter  (7 months) to play with the prop. That also still doesn't explain why I  had a higher WOT last month, unless I have a huge knot of line or something wrapped around the prop. Next weekend, I am going to tak the boat out into the bay a ways and dive on it myself to check. Need to have witnesses around to fill out the accident report.

Thank  you all for your help.

Graham

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Happy Hour III
"First Mate"




Joined: February 13 2007
Posts: 572
Posted: July 15 2012 at 21:38 | IP Logged Quote Happy Hour III

bear I used a product called "seafoam" put it in my gas tank . my carb problems ended . check it out works great . you will not be sorry . good luck Cap

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Jim-Happy Hour III
1983 Chris Craft Catalina281
Twin 5.7 Mercruisers Repowered
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JimInFla
"Deckhand"




Joined: September 09 2011
Posts: 142
Posted: July 15 2012 at 22:36 | IP Logged Quote JimInFla

Bear tooth,

I woul not run that engine the way that impeller is. If there are two
splines broken off you need to ensure they went overboard and that
those pieces aren't somewhere plugging up part of the exhaust.

Jim

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JimInFla - Jacksonville, FL
"The Hard Six"
1986 Catalina 293 Express
www.thehard6.com
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diveryates
"Lieutenant"




Joined: January 02 2007
Posts: 845
Posted: July 16 2012 at 12:47 | IP Logged Quote diveryates

Beartooth,

In the final analysis (depending on use, of course) WOT is a kind of final tweek.  I suspect many boats run fine without that final detail for years. Perhaps it's best anyway to run her a while to be sure of all the ins and outs and gathering consistant, repeatable symptoms. Sometimes problems aboard have this maddening way of coming and going. Running the boat for months will go a long way in sorting out these pickadillos .  

So.

Cooling system's the priority- sounds good to me! Jim in Fla has an excelent point: try and locate what's left of the impellers up stream in the cooling system, perhaps on the intake side of the tranny ATF heat exchanger.

On the Temp sender: Not positive where it's located on your boat. Perhaps the sams as on GM car engines? However, on our boat there is also an optional in-series set of senders: it's a no-oil-pressure and over-temp switch arrangment CC sold as a safety feature- nice feature to have. When you turn ingition on and wait about 10 seconds, we get an audible alarm confirming this circuit is working. Start the engine, the audible stops and we get a green anunciator light indicating this engine safety system is operating. On our boat, the overtemp switch part of this circuit is located right at the thermostat. It looks just like a temp sensor but it's not- it's a switch as opposed to a variable resistence sender which would be used with the temp guage. You may or may not have this feature. Perhaps a little research to understand the difference in these sender types would be useful. Following the sender wire from the temp guage is a sure bet way of IDing the sender's location on the engine. I have a 280's wireing diagram. If you want it, I can Email it to you.

Well done on the raw water pump!!

Roy (Diver) 



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Roy & Laurie, S.F. Bay Area
'83 280, hardtop, single 305
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Beartooth
"Seaman"




Joined: September 17 2009
Posts: 21
Posted: July 22 2012 at 14:26 | IP Logged Quote Beartooth

Hi all,

I got the water pump installed easily on wednesday evening. I lubed the hoses with dawn dish soap and they slid right on. When I started the motor, within about 10 seconds, I got soap bubbles out both pipes. I did pull the thermostat housing to check for the other impeller bits, but did not see them. I will pull the remaining cooling system in the fall at haul out. I also cleaned the sensor for the temp gauge and now that is working as well. I also noticed that a bit of fuel was dripping from the connection to the carberator, so I took that all apart and claeaned the threads and put it all back together with some more sealant. I let it set up this time so hopefully it not leak this time.

Also, I replaced the fresh water pump (potable) as it stopped working too. Now, if I replace the water heater, it should be leak free. It think it was not winterized at all and froze in about 10 places.

I finally got my Father's day present finished too. My wife had the kids give me the gift of the name graphics for the back of the boat.

It took some time to get the font right. The original font was not a recognized font. The logo was created by an artist and the rest of the letters (other than "Chris Craft") don't exist. My wife found a close font, then changed it in Photoshop. She did good.

Here is the logo for comparison.

Have a good afternoon all. Heading out for a ride on the river or bay.

Graham

 



Edited by Beartooth on July 22 2012 at 14:31
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