Posted: October 12 2011 at 23:50 | IP Logged

Hey, Gang. JimHH better doing it right in the long run. Trying to do it cheap usually costs me more $$$$ in the long run.

Mike, looks like the wind took it's toll. Can any of it be saved??

Flybridge, glad all is OK.

Think I have steering issue solved, will find out this weekend, weather permitting. Been busy with work and other issues, need a nice day on the water.

Nite, All, Capt. Steve.

Posted: October 13 2011 at 11:02 | IP Logged

Salmonpro,

Question: Is the only way to remove the glass is to spread the alunimum frame apart and slide the glass out? On Lorelei, the front window frames are rounded at the corners and I suspect glass removal is a different procedure. However, our side window frames look the same as your fronts. Assuming they are the same, seperate the frame to slide glass out?

Full tint is a great idea. If I had to replace glass, I would do all around. As it is, I added Limo tint (darkest availible) to the front windows. When we replace the canvas, we will use dark tilted plactic windows all around as well.

HHIII,

Jim, Always appreaiate hi quality pics such as the cylinder head pics you posted. It helps to zoom in for a closer look.

I could be wrong about this, but this is what I'm seeing: The cause for the engine failure was penetration of raw water eating thru the cylinder head's casting right at the head gasket. I think it's clear this was what caused the failure. I''m not sure the cylinder head was inproperly installed. All the other cylinders were ok(?). It only takes one to seize an engine.

Where I'm going with this is that the Mechanic stated the a valve hit the top of the piston? I don't see that in the posted pic. Corrosion was the cause here.  If a valve was the cupret, it must have been in another cylinder and there were two failures- corrosion and sucking a valve...?  Possible, if improbable. One occurance was enough to cause this. My point is is to just be clear as to what the mechanic is saying to you. You are relying on his companie's expertise for sucessful completion of this project. I feel he should be able to provide compelling evidence of his diagnosis as shown in a photo- it should be clearly seen. He could be right, but the posted pic does not indicate a valve issue.  Suggest being Johney-on-the-spot with this.  Be sure of this install and driveline alignment- do both sides. Do a thourgh test run with the mechanic aboard. Insist on a warrenty in writing before the test run. This project includes a conversion to fresh-water cooling, so all that plumbing needs to go in right- including a new heat exchanger. Do not rush this or let the vendor do so...it's clearly going ahead apiece...just be sure the vendor is not rushing you out the door. ok? 

Roy (Diver)    

Posted: October 13 2011 at 12:41 | IP Logged

Jim, my 2 cents is that ALL mechanics are opinionated and egotistical.  Whatever one has done is completely wrong and a another mechanic will tell you how messed up the job is.  The truth is that you will never find a mechanic that will praise anothers work.  Don't take anything for gospel.  I gaurentee if you took photos and documented the work and brought your info to another shop the critisism would fly across the room.

Posted: October 13 2011 at 12:49 | IP Logged

Salmonpro i agree with Roy ,

Posted: October 13 2011 at 12:53 | IP Logged

Diver,

when I removed the glas from this particular window I brok it so I didn't have to take much apart. LOL when I had it out I did notice that the glass is set in place with Butyl rubber tabe aout 3/16th's thick it is possible to push it free however you have to be really careful as it will break if you horse it at all. the window actually just sits in place with a form of glazing to keep the edges looking clean. The glazing I used is a rubber/ vinyl strip that I cut and then used Butyl rubber caulk to basically glue it in place I got the glazing strips from Glass distributors online but your local Glass supplier may have it. the process is pretty easy once the window is cleaned up and ready to set the glass in place you really have to make sure you have the glass right where you want it though because once you set it down your not going to be able to move it. Your local Glass company will have the tape as well they use it to put in windsheilds and rv windows. (and Now Boat windows since I told them what I was doing.)

the tinting that I had them use is just a green common tint it is great because i have the dark stick on stuff on the other windows and due to the amount of heat and moisture that is inherent on boats that stuff just starts to bubble and release. It is dark enough that when your sitting in the boat at night with no lights on you cant see anything. Yet light enough that you can still see out in the dark and not have to really try to make out anything.  I plan on having curtains anyways so it was not really an issue to go any darker for me. I would assume to have tinted glass put in it would be more expensive from the glass cutter but I am happy with mine.  

HHIII,

I fully agree with Diver's assesment on your heads. I would make sure the mechanic and even the owner of the marina knows that you are paying good money to get this done and that your eyeballing this to make sure it is getting done right.

would love to see more Pictures of peoples headliners I need to get some idea of how to put one in I so far have noting up there it is painted fiberglass. Previous owner painted it with what seems to be a regular house paint. :( I am thinking I could take all my windows out and just preassure wash the interior and get it all off. I am redoiing everything anyways so what the heck. LOL

Posted: October 13 2011 at 12:56 | IP Logged

I just noticed that I am the worst typist on the internet!! excuse my typos!

;0

Posted: October 13 2011 at 17:06 | IP Logged

Salmonpro,

I too am in the process of trying to figure out what to do with my headliner. It's one of the rougest things on the boat. It's straight vintage 1986 and in very poor shape.

Since I am not that handy with vinyl, or carpet, or headline installation in general. I have been looking for someone to sub this job out to.

The first problem was finding someone who didn't say "well, just bring it by the shop". My Cat doesn't have a trailer so, unles the shop is on the water, not so much of an option.

The second was finding someone who wanted the work. Apparently there is so much work for the headliner community here in Jax, that they can afford to turn down work. The first one came out, but never sent the quote, and  the second contractor, just didn't show up for the quote, the third one is supposed to be buy next Saturday to look at the job, but gave me a ballpark quote of $2500 including materials. I'm hoping that when he looks at the job the price will come down. I know it's a lot of man hours, but still, DAMN!

Here's some pictures I sent to the third contractor. I'm going to call these "before" photos. As you can see the mold is really bad from where the windows were leaking. So bad that when we tried to overnight on her for the first time, my head locked up like a vice and we had to come home at 1am. THAT was a bummer.

Hope the photos help!

Jim

Posted: October 13 2011 at 19:27 | IP Logged

Jim in Fl.:   I remember Diver, or NautiCat, telling me,  "Since you are needing to replace, do something that gives you an "Upgrade". Be CREATIVE"!!   Perhaps, you can do that, as well!!

I Have the Nautolex  headliner.  I am in the process to "Spray-Dye" it.  Bought a trial can, at NAPA.  I used cleaners, but not working!! Got rid of mold, but got dark-spot or two.  The "dark" spots, need another coat.  The other places I sprayed, --LOOKED LIKE NEW!!  I was concerned about filling-in the holes of the pattern, was unfounded.  Spray-can worked like a charm.  Only problem is, How many cans am I going to use??  If I get extra money, I MAY, install new headliner Nautolex material myself. I feel confident, the $500 guy, knows his business.  Trust, but verify, is always a good idea!!

However you have cloth.  Before I tried spray-can method, I called a local marine upholstery shop.  They quoted me $500.00 to do just the Salon-Helm headliner.   Had you tried using a cloth shampoo, or is the mold bad enough, not to salvage?  If you can clean enough mold off the cloth, you might try to --Dye-in-Place. No doubt, it will be a bit messy, but there is nothing to lose, by trying this. 

If you have time, try doing something to a small section, hidden from obvious view, to experiment.  For saving $2,500, I'd try ---ANYTHING, first. 

NautiCat, quoted the price, to replace his, but honestly, I cannot see paying that much money, for basically is a labor job.  Reckon NautiCat, do too!!  The headliner material doesn't really cost that much, in the bigger scheme of things. 

Mine, unlined (no foam backing) is approx $22.00 per yd.  Comes in rolls 54 inches wide.  ceiling will need 2 runs.  seam is hidden under transverse white belting.  I have the "Pin Hole" pattern headliner, in white color.

A headliner material for your CC, is approx. $45.00 per yd. and also comes in rolls 54 inches wide.  I found a website, that I quoted from,  www.garysupholstery.com   Haven't done bussiness from there, just used to give you an idea of material prices.   

Fly Bridge-----Dan

Posted: October 13 2011 at 19:49 | IP Logged

I agree with you guys and thank you. What caused my motor to go bad were the rebuilt heads my old mechanic  put on back in 2008. I did get 370 hours out of them. I should of went with new heads. When Heads get rebuilt and they are not done 100 % problems come up. My exhaust valves failed allowing water to leak into the motor. Risers and manafolds were fine. From the pictures you can see where the seats broke and bashed up the heads and pistons.  I always do my risers every 3-4 years .

Jimfla , I wish my headliner looked like yours. A quick cheap way to live with it is to get a carpet cleanning company with that big cleanner in their van or truck . I had mine done a few years back and it looked ok for the $40 bucks it looked very diffrent once cleanned with that machine. Something to try. Also a nice tip the kid went above on them dirty spots. Just an idea .

Diver , Thanks so much for imput. trust me I am going very slow with this . This is a lot of money for me that I really dont have right now . I just dont want a "band aid" fix it seems to always come back to get you. If I got new heads last time I prob have gotten more time out of the motor . I feel really good about this guy and he is changing all pumps hoses etc. I will be going there a lot to check on things.   I will keep you all posted Thanks again.

Capt Mark , wish your shop was here lol. What are your plans for the winter? Are you coming down to Florida ?

Posted: October 13 2011 at 20:28 | IP Logged

Jim In Fla,

I hardily agree with Dan. A stab at resurrecting what's there is definately worth a shot. To my eye, the ceiling looks fine. The fact is that the expence and effort to replace any headliner is substantial. The good news is I think the headliner textile is synthetic-maybe nylon. This should make it easier to mitigate mold.  Perhaps working up some kind of procedure to get rid of the moisture as a 1st step would be productive- see what odor is left after drying...? I remember Mark using pumped-in, hi-flow heated air from hair dryers, heat guns or space heaters and forcing that air thru ducting for drying out the spaces in his Cat's teen-decks forward- worked quite well as I recall. He just let the setup run for 48-72 hours. Maybe emptying the cabin of everything (to minimize wood warpage from prolonged drying) and creating elevated heat levels inside the cabin with hi air flow? Or maybe doing it section by ceiling section using the same method? Is the headliner seperating from the fiberglass? If so- maybe remove the whole textile intact, or even in sections, purge it and reinstall using spray adhesive and adjustable truck load bars to keep the sections in place during drying. I think it's clear something more invasive than a dehumidifier would be called for to solve this.

CCPIRAY!! Hola Amigo!!

Roy   

Posted: October 13 2011 at 20:41 | IP Logged

Jim, not sure what I'm doing this winter.  I've barely had time to figure out whats for diner tomorrow.  I have some options.  I met another captain this summer who has an oppertunity to deliver a 52' open water sail boat to Hawaii and asked if I would like to go.  I'm thinking about.

Headliner issues seem to be a problem for a lot of folks.  I was having a real issue with my shag until I figured I just don't need every inch of this boat to be improved.  Maybe some day I'll take on the task.  This winter will be a breeze with minor projects. 

Posted: October 13 2011 at 20:51 | IP Logged

You reckon correct Dan...I stopped just short of telling the interior guys that they were crazy...but I understand they have a business to run and anything marine related is 5+ times more expensive than it should be and being in NY, 10 times that!

Posted: October 13 2011 at 21:01 | IP Logged

Jim,  that's how mine was, the glue was so dried out the headliner peeled like weak velcro from the fiberglass.  Mine was also cut in spots where a previous owner ran wiring (reloacted the anchor light and horn).  But what a difference once it was all removed.  We did end up weekending on the boat a few times with the headliner removed.  It took a while to get all the stray fuzz removed....a little at a time.  But it did help removing it for the window re-sealing project.  I used a product called "Tuff Stuff" a paint-on deck coating which was rubberized, in the head.  I got it from Overtons.  coated the raw fiberglass pretty good and was a great solution for the dampness of the head since we did shower in there when overnighting.  My plan was to use the Tuff Stuff around the vertical areas in the cabin where the headlineer was and under the walk-around side decks...basically all the curvey areas where the shag headliner was.  For the ceiling as previously posted was going to be the paneling...easy to clean, dry and maintain and most of all, wouldnt hold in moisture.  Maybe o my next CC Catalina.

Feel free to give me a call tomorrow (Friday) if you want to chat... 631-495-seven two seven three.

Tom

Posted: October 14 2011 at 23:04 | IP Logged

Headliners - Ahoy Captains:  My Cat was completely original when I purchased her last year.  My wife absolutely HATED the headliner referring to its appearance as "monkey fur".  I called numerous companies to give me quotes and although most never returned my calls and some never showed up, I was lucky enough to find one that quoted $600 to replace with new.  I was burdened with the task of removing the "fur" from the cabin ceiling.  I was suprised how easy, albeit messy, it was...  The hardest part was removing the wood trim and the area inside the overhead galley cabinet.  All told, removal and clean-up was about a six hour job.  

The contractor purchased headliner material from a discount marine center here in Ft Pierce.  It's cream colored and came in a 10' width.  She used 3M headliner spray adhesive to apply but her seams were absolutely atrocious.  I told her how unhappy I was with her finished product and she offered to remove the headliner and walk away or leave it "as is" and I pay her $100. for the materials.  I agreed to the latter and then purchased upholstry "hide a seam" which I glued over the seams using 3m 5200.  Although not perfect, the headliner looks 100% better and most people don't notice the seams.

Although not the best photo of the headliner, you can see its general appearance and the hide a seam where the cabin roof meets the sidewall.

Posted: October 15 2011 at 03:48 | IP Logged

To Captn's:    Headliners Topic:    Since the subject concerns high-dollar costs quotes, that I could encourage others here to be imaginative, and use your ingenuity.    

My Catalina is different model than most of others here on forum, and therefore, unknowledgeable to partic ulars, of your headliner attachment/fit.  However, there must be some similarities.   

Most of you fellows have a cloth-type headliner.  While mine is White color, Nautolex (vinyl), with the non-foam backing, (it does come WITH foam-backing)  with a "Pin-Hole" pattern (actual very small holes).   I COULD go to a  Marine supply store, Home Depot, fabric store, etc. , and change from current headliner material.  I would REALLY like, a white Nautolex with pattern of very small blue or gold anchors.  I also thought, very small blue or gold stars, would work nicely.  But truthfully not really made my mind-up yet.  For the present time, I'll stay with the "spray-can" method, since it works really well, for now.   

The probable main difference of my headliner attachment, in the lower helm salon, is the transverse  wood cross-members, on the overhead, that allow the headliner to attach onto the wood cross-members.  Thus the reason for several "Belted seams"  crossing width of boat. 

Cap'n Mike, of the SeaGar Lounge, sorry you had problem with your headliner Installer.  Thought I might have same problem of fit: as your did.  which is why I prefer doing it myself, if I can!!  Also the fact , cost of labor, is WAY more the headliner materials.   As you pointed-out, "$100 for material," and "cost to install was $600".  Interesting!!   a $500 profit, for "how many hours work"?  JUST, as I figured!!

If you fellows use same cloth material, and glue to overhead, that would be your choice.  However to use a "breathable" material, it will be necessary to install what I have in my Cat.  Although I do not know if other Cat's models have wood "beams" that transverse the overhead, PERHAPS epoxy as a glue, COULD anchor the wood, to provide attachment of the non-cloth headliner.  My headliner MUST be STRETCHED, and STAPLED in the "Seam" area, and also ALL ALONG the EDGES.  ALL, the stapled EDGES are hidden by "Belting" and/or wood mouldings.  The SEAMS, are hidden by "Belted material". 

I HOPE, I have added something of usefulness, and value here.  Since pictures are worth a thousand words, a simple photo is appropriate.  the photo, is of Salon, and headliner.  This was taken, BEFORE I started my eloquent "reburbishment", with the spray-can.

The photo is looking FORE to AFT. Photo taken FROM down in the Galley, (same as most of yours) looking UP.  The HELM, is on the LEFT, in the photo, behind console.  Which is STARBOARD, on the boat.  In the background is the center-line placed sliding door, with non-opening glass windows on either side.  WHEW, I went "overboard" with this Post!!

Fly Bridge----Dan

Posted: October 15 2011 at 04:00 | IP Logged

Headliner:   By Fly Bridge---Dan     Although headliner looks fairly decent, it is not as white in person.  I tried every cleaning product/method, and it will not bring-out that "Showroom" look.   When a brand-new white material is laid alongside, you can see the difference at once.  The water-stains, can be clearly seen.  Also, is "holding-screws", 3 of the 4, that can be seen.   Unsure if P.O put them in, or is original factory installation. 

 So either I install new headliner,or "reburbish" with the spray-can method.  I don't think the "Connie" guys, would approve of my "reburbishment"  idea though!!!  

Posted: October 15 2011 at 06:16 | IP Logged

Mike,

I think mine will come down pretty easily too. How hard was it to remove the old adhesive from the cabin celing?

Dan,

The contractor I talked to said the same thing about something like Nautolex. That there had to be a back board of some type to attach the material to and that was why he suggested another "carpet" type material. Having to build that backer, and then stretch it to fit would be a great deal more cost.

I think what I may do, is to pull the liner from the head's ceiling and see what's underneath and how hard it wuold be to prep. My gut feeling is to go with a "harder" surface in there anyway as someone had suggested. Like a spray on bed liner. It won't look as nice, but I won't have to worry about mold in the head, which seems to be one of the problem areas.

Thanks everyone for your support!

Jim

Posted: October 15 2011 at 07:49 | IP Logged

Jim:   Do you have a blower, in the head?  I'm not implying a blower is the cure for mold, just wondering if a blower actually makes any difference, or not.  As a matter of info, I have a blower, in the Head that vents thru the hull, just below the gunnel.

Fly Bridge---Dan

Posted: October 15 2011 at 19:13 | IP Logged

So I'm at work yesterday, the one and only day of the entire year I was alone, my three co-workers where out of town for training. No problem, I know the job and the drill, I can handle it.

We had anywhere from a 1/2 inch to 1 1/2 inches of rain depending on the area overnight. The marina calls me on my cell phone and says..Rick....your boat is sinking!!!! Ok...but I'm the only one here and can't leave. Luckily my father loves boating, old Chris Crafts and happens to be retired. One call to dad and he was at the boat 20 minutes later.

Basically what had happend is my bilge pumps killed the batteries, it wasn't actually sinking, but did have about 4-5 inches in the bilge causing it to sit a little lower in the back. With the forecast of 40 mile an hour winds and a crummy weekend, I decided it was time to pull the ole girl out for the winter. So as of today, she's out!!

Back in 1997 I bought a Maxum 280SCR. I sold the boat in 2003 as I took a huge paycut and I owed around $40,000 on it and the last thing I needed at the time was a boat payment. That boat, had a built in charger that ran off the shore power. I'd like to put something like this on my 291. Does anyone have something like this on theirs that would have been aftermarket? Just looking for ideas as this will be one of my many winter projects.

Posted: October 15 2011 at 19:30 | IP Logged

Cap'n Rick:  Glad your Dad saved your CC!!  Lucky you!!  I also thought about a shore-powered built-in charger myself.  I'm sure someone has that on their CC here on the forum.

QUESTION:   I have a oil pressure gauge problem.  Gauge lights-up, when key turned-on, but when engine is running, there is NO LIGHTS, and ALSO  NO  Pressure reading.  Gauge is Analog, meaning it has a Pointer.   All the other gauges REMAIN lighted, and working normal.  The oil gauge is the only gauge so affected.

I did check behind console, for a tight and clean electrical  connection.  And no issue found.

Has any Cap'n encountered this problem, and found a solution?  I surely would be most appreciative, for an answer.   Since I am in "Dry-Dock", no rush for answer.

Any Cap'n have a knowledge, what is the problem?

Fly Bridge----Dan

Posted: October 15 2011 at 21:44 | IP Logged

RickP...mine had a Guest 2 bank battery charger installed with the leads directly to the batteries.  It would maintain the batteries as power was drawn and seemed like a pretty easy project.  The charger was mounted on the engine room side of the bulkhead, connected to one of the 115v breakers (the one that used to power the rectifier) and worked well.  One thing you should also look into is installing an isolator to protect your metal thru hull fittings and running gear should your boat, another boat or the marina have an issue with current leaking into the water when you are plugged into dockside...basically completing the circuit through the water and through your boat's under water metal components.

http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/SiteSear ch?Ns=Most Popular|0

My Way did not have an isolator but I rarely had her plugged for extended period of times.

Posted: October 16 2011 at 03:32 | IP Logged

Oil Pressure Gauge:  FOUND the solution, to the problem of,  "No pressure reading". 

The "Daisy-Link" coupling ( read that somewhere).    Just for giggles,  pulled connector apart, at the gauge, then pushed back together.  WAA  LA!!  Gauge was working, and displayed oil pressure!!  Whoda thought?!   Easy fix.  But not before I climbed all over the engine, etc.!!  

One thing that was noticed, if  ever need to repair, is the location of the Neutral-Starter Switch.  EASY to get to!!

Fly Brifge----Dan 

Posted: October 16 2011 at 12:04 | IP Logged

Rick P,

I am glad to hear that you did not sink. I have a small schumacher battery maintainer in my boat (1.5 amp single bank). it is not really designed for marine use but I have it mounted on the back of the dash and I ran a lead to my starting battery bank. I talked to the factory rep from Schumacher and asked him about marine use with this he said that it is a sealed unit and that if the charger is not in direct contact with any water it would be fine. I tried it and it has worked for about 2 seasons so far. Saved about 100.00 in the long run. I am not saying this is the perfectly right way to do this but if you want to save some cash it has worked for me.  I am thinking about adding one in the cabin for my other battery bank now since that one I have had to charge the old fashioned way and I get sick of it. :)

Guest makes them for marine use and they are a bit pricey I would check with overtons and see if they are maybe a bit less than west marine. I would have gone with the guest but I have to many projects and needed to cut some costs somehwere or I might get cut from my marriage. :)

Posted: October 16 2011 at 16:00 | IP Logged

Good deal Dan!

Electrical issues are usually about bad connections. Turn the circuit on and go around jiggling. Suggest re-terminating with a solder joint, but any re-termination is good.

Salmonpro,

The battery charger issue has been discussed prevous, It's the nature of the beast that the site's search function is't really designed for a thread that has gone on as long as this one- oh well.

In a nutshell, most Catalinas (I can't remember if it was standard equipment or an option) have a rectifier aboard in the lazzerette, portside. here's link to look at it:

http://palmbeachgmc.com/manuals.html#Triad-Utrad Converter Brochure

This unit supplies 13 vdc from shore power to the boat when the batteries are off. As long as the rectifier's breaker at the AC panel is on, you have power to all fused curcuits on the pilot's panel, including the bilge pumps. Also, there is power to the breakers on the cabin's DC panel.

As a secondary (and practically useless) function, the rectifier acts as a very simple battery charger.

My solution to a very funky battery charger situation: tap the AC power line going into the rectifier right where the line goes into it in the lazzerette, run a AC line around the fueltank, and install a Waterproof, switched and covered AC recepticle on one of the cockpit's verticle support posts (portside) along with a marine-grade charger. I plugged the charger into this outlet, then th charger connectors to the batteries. This methos has the advantage of already having the rectifier breaker in curcuit for the charger.... 

The battery isolator's mentioned are another important issue.

best, Roy

Posted: October 16 2011 at 19:21 | IP Logged

I have this charger and I love it Fully Automatic  .I never had a problem just plug her in when I dock and I am good to go. I have six batterys aboard  . Her is my lay out

Bank 1( two Batterys)   is for Port Motor , blowers, and some electrinics

Bank 2 ( two Batterys) Starboard motor, pumps etc  and a lights cabin also changed all light to LED they draw nothing .

Bank 3  Two Batterys  also they are Odessy Batterys as well , I use them for the stereo system amps ,and everything else. I never had a problem .

Posted: October 17 2011 at 13:50 | IP Logged

RickP, glad she did not sink.  It is a little less worry for us since we dry stack and Smile not in water unless we are.  I did replace the onboard charger 2 winters ago when added the external bow thruster.  Had an older 2 bank Guest so went wiht a 3 bank Guest 2621A.  think was under $300 out of jamestown.  Very straightforward install and the tech guys at Guest are terrific with support.  Our old rectifier circuit is the battery charger circuit.  Turn it on and forget it as long as your water is topped off. 

Sea Gar, sorry to hear about the cnavas but from the looks of it, it could have been worse. Wind sucks.