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Formula/Thunderbird
 BoatUS Boat Groups/Manufacturer Forums>>Formula/Thunderbird
Subject Topic: Formula/Thunderbird Introductory Post Post ReplyPost New Topic
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DOGGYDOO
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Joined: June 30 2004
Posts: 24
Posted: August 08 2005 at 00:00 | IP Logged Quote DOGGYDOO

INTERESTING  EQUATION.  HOW CAN I DETERMINE THE PROJECTED SPEED OF MY 233?  DROPPING IN THE 455  OLDS  WHICH IS  RIGHT AT 400 HP MATED TO A BORG WARNER 72C  WITH 1.52 REDUCTION, CURRENTLY USING A 16X21 PITCH PROP BUT MAY CHANGE THAT.  MY BOAT OVERALL IS CONSIDERABLY LIGHT AS I DONT CARRY ALOT OF GEAR, BUT OF COURSE SHE IS A 1968  HULL SO BUILT LIKE A TANK, I WOULD GUESS  AT LEAST 4000 LBS. I DON'T HAVE TRIM TABS BUT SHOULD BE INTERESTING TO SEE HOW SHE RIDES WITH THE ENGINE BEING CENTRALLY LOCATED WITH ALL THE WEIGHT IN THE MIDDLE AS OPPOSED TO HER RIDING STERN  LOW. I WOULD GUESS THE ENGINE AND TRANNY ARE ABOUT  1000  LBS  TOGETHER.  DAVE  IN  FT.  LAUDERDALE
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74Formula233
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Joined: April 01 2004
Posts: 73
Posted: August 08 2005 at 00:00 | IP Logged Quote 74Formula233

Doggy, you're in the ballpark on the weight, figure just over 4,000 # with an empty tank but with power installed.

Your speed will be very hard to estimate, due to the straight inboard conversion (they never came that way) and due to the Olds engine.....is the engine set up right for marine use?  i.e. the right Cam, Heads, etc?  It's not simply a car motor that you're throwing in her is it?

Anyway, my comments above on 302 vs. 351 are very specific to those 2 particular motors.  Although the 302's came in 188HP, 215 HP, and 225HP (mine), and the 351W was 233HP or 255HP, they mostly performed the same.

My 302 has 351W heads on it from the factory, along with a 4-BBL and a more aggressive cam.  The other 302's had 2-BBLs, 302 heads, and a milder cam.

So my particular 302 is so close to the 351W that they used, that performance in the "real world", meaning on the water, in 2 identical boats, was the same.  HP numbers don't always mean much, and aren't always a true indication of how a particular boat will perform.

Now, take Dick's Chevy 350....he has a higher cruise than I, since his max RPMs are higher on the Chevy blocks than the Ford, and his "cruise" RPMs are also higher (by about 500).

If I were to swap in a 351W, my RPM ranges would stay the same as what I have now....would I see an increase in speed?  Sure, mainly because I'd be putting a "fresh" motor in that shouldn't have to work as hard to get me the RPMs.

If I were to repower with a 350 like Dick's with the Bravo 2, I'd see a much better performance increase, due to the higher horsepower, RPM ranges, AND fresh power.  (By the way Dick, my brother got his '84 back last week with the new power, 350/Bravo 2, and is VERY happy with it's power/torque!)

If I were to repower with the 350 Mag MPI, I'd see even MORE power, due to more horsepower, yes, but also due to an even HIGHER RPM range than even Dick's 350 setup.

So, it's much more complicated than simply horsepower.

I could repower with a 230HP 4-cylinder diesel and get MUCH better performance out of my boat than my current 225 HP gasser  Diesel...now that's REALLY a whole 'nother story hahaha.




Edited by Sonja Lowe on September 20 2013 at 18:10


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1974 Formula F-233-C
Mercruiser Ford 302/TR Outdrive
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Dick_F233
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Joined: November 12 2004
Posts: 32
Posted: August 08 2005 at 00:00 | IP Logged Quote Dick_F233

Hey Fintage,

You're right about the 5.0L vs 5.7L engines.  Oh Kay actually had a much higher top end with the 5.0L Ford.  I didn't have a FloScan until after the Chevy 350, so I was never sure of the Ford fuel consumption.

I always attributed it to a 19" 4-blade wheel vs the small 3-blade on the Ford, and the weight and drag of my tower vs the little bimini.

I've got a lot more power and torque though. 

 



Edited by Dick_F233 on 08 August 2005 at 2:41pm


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Oh Kay - 1972 Thunderbird Formula F233


Edited by Sonja Lowe on September 20 2013 at 13:18
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DOGGYDOO
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Joined: June 30 2004
Posts: 24
Posted: August 08 2005 at 00:00 | IP Logged Quote DOGGYDOO

DOGGYDOO  HERE;  NO ITS A BUILT MARINE 455 WITH OIL RESTRICTORS,  10 QT DOOLEY OIL PAN , MARINE PROFILE LOW END TORQUE CAM. DAVE 
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andrep
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Joined: June 06 2005
Posts: 9
Posted: August 08 2005 at 00:00 | IP Logged Quote andrep

DOGGYDOO,

I hope they have a better track record when they are set-up for marine use.

I bought a brand new Pontiac Grand Prix 1973 with a 455 and I had to re-build the engine 5 times over 220,000 miles.

ave 80 mph (some times 125, max135) it is 550 hour per rebuild.

The good old time. Only water can bring that kind of feeling now.

andré

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LittleBit
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Joined: May 31 2005
Posts: 2
Posted: August 08 2005 at 00:00 | IP Logged Quote LittleBit

HI Guys:

I have been ghost monitoring the thread for a year and thought I should pitch in.  I got involved by buying a '76 F233, which the prior owners were nice enough to reequip with fresh mechanicals, upholstery and a 7.4 GSI  Volvo DP in 2000.  They put about 500 hours on it before I got it.  I have added lenco tabs following  the discussion on this site, and an added quick response from the Albemarle plant which I understand uses the same hull.  Its goes like a locomotive.  I picture myself pulling up about 40 bathing beauties on skis - like the old Sarasota promo films

Its used for cruising/fishing/tubing up here in Vancouver BC, and is just what I looked for for a long time - beefy enough to get across (and back) the 10 mile Georgia straight to the Gulf islands in all weather, and big enough to happily sleep our two little guys and the wife.  Its a bit on the beefy side for easy trailering though at 5500 lbs.  It has the original "Kitchenette" built in behind the skipper, plus a custom combo seat on the port with two seats, with movable back rests so they can be back to back, forward or facing with a small table in between - all converts to a long bunk with storage below.  Great for my purpose but not so great for you blue water guys.

Anyways, thanks for the great thread.  I had no idea I was buying into a legend.  It became clear pretty quick last summer though when I went about 90 miles up the coast to Desolation sound and had lots of comments and info from other boaters, culminating in an evening when I was busy trying to get a good set on my anchor, and was moving all over the small bay.  I had noticed a guy paddling around in a small inflatable, but didn't pay too much mind.  After the fourth (successful) set.  I looked up and he had paddled after me all the way across the bay (in a good wind) and was gasping.  He climbed aboard and was pretty excited to be able to give me the full history of the hull, the maker, the designer, the layout of my boat etc etc.  And this was in Desolation sound!   That's a good boat!

Cheers

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bboats1018
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Joined: August 07 2005
Posts: 2
Posted: August 08 2005 at 00:00 | IP Logged Quote bboats1018

Thanks! Fintage for that comforting info! Well I'm definately going to check my prop and check the pitch. My boat is running great just trying to learn the boat a little bit better, Hey fintage what is your fuel consumption like, just to get an idea. Hopefully I'll post a pic soon. This boat is awsome me and my father purchased this boat for $600.00 in N.J last year and took us year and a half to restore to original condition.

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DOGGYDOO
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Joined: June 30 2004
Posts: 24
Posted: August 08 2005 at 00:00 | IP Logged Quote DOGGYDOO

JUST  WANT   YOU TO  KNOW I  LOOKED  AT THREE   60 MPH   233  FORMULAS IN THE MIAMI AREA AND HAD TO  BUILD  MINE  FOR SPEED. I'M NOT A  MILLIONAIRE  BUT I THINK BUILDING IT MYSELF I  WILL MAKE IT HAPPEN. THIS  455 OLDS ENGINE IS BUILT TO RUN 6000 RPM SO MY TASK IS TO DESIGN  THE PROP  RIGHT FOR TORQUE AND RPM. JUST WONDERING ABOUT FUEL USE.    I MANAGE A  SUPERBOAT MARINA SO ALL  I DO IS LOOK AND WISH.  DOGGYDOO
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74Formula233
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Joined: April 01 2004
Posts: 73
Posted: August 09 2005 at 00:00 | IP Logged Quote 74Formula233

bboats1018 wrote:

Thanks! Fintage for that comforting info! Well I'm definately going to check my prop and check the pitch. My boat is running great just trying to learn the boat a little bit better, Hey fintage what is your fuel consumption like, just to get an idea. Hopefully I'll post a pic soon. This boat is awsome me and my father purchased this boat for $600.00 in N.J last year and took us year and a half to restore to original condition.

Do you know the RPMs you are running at cruise and WOT?  If you are in the right range, don't mess with the prop.

This year I have been getting an honest 2 NMPG at cruise.  Not bad for a 31 year old drivetrain pushing a boat with a full hardtop and enclosure.  The curtains/top add a noticeable amount of drag, but I'll never go without ever again.  What a MUCH MORE enjoyable day it makes having spray/sun protection.

By the way, my drivetrain has about 1200 hours on it.  I had the heads rebuilt 100 hours ago (this year).  That's all the motor has had done to it mechanically.





Edited by Sonja Lowe on September 20 2013 at 18:11


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1974 Formula F-233-C
Mercruiser Ford 302/TR Outdrive
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r3merlin
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Joined: August 17 2005
Posts: 0
Posted: August 16 2005 at 00:00 | IP Logged Quote r3merlin

Thanks Fintage! What do have as your shifting mechanism on your trani, electric or Manual.  My F23 came with an electric shift motor mounted on the trani. Luckly I found a used mercTransmission that fits a 350 Chev bell housing and had a merc orig manual shift mechanism that uses a standard mercury shift cable. Saving the chevy trani for the day my Ford takes a dump, hopefully never!
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Tico
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Joined: May 20 2005
Posts: 22
Posted: August 17 2005 at 00:00 | IP Logged Quote Tico

Hello out there!

Anybody interested in a 1969 F233 "project boat" in need of cosmetics and power?  It's on a brand new Continental trailer, all aluminum with stainless fittings, dual torsion axels, all discs. brakes, blah, blah, blah..

She's awaiting in Fort Myers, Florida.

Other obligations force me to put this on the back burner for an indefinite period.Cry

Photos, info., and price available in answer to your emailed request - look at my profile for my email address.



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r3merlin
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Joined: August 17 2005
Posts: 0
Posted: August 17 2005 at 00:00 | IP Logged Quote r3merlin

baranx3 wrote:
I'm interested in a formula 233 and have seen a few 242 for sale, but not many 233. Not long ago I had a lead on a 233 but it turned out to be a 233ls which has the longer cabin as I was told. What is the difference between the 233 and the 242 besides lenght. I'm more interested in a boat that is capable of running in the blue waters.

baranx3 - to answer your question about the difference between the 233 and 242 models - Don Arronow designed the 233 back in the early sixties - boat was also used extensively by US Navy in Vietnam with twin Chevy V8s - The 242 design was done by the Porter family in Decatur, Indiana and was a shortened version of the 272 LS boat introducted in the early eighties. Significant differences in hull design and layout of the 242 was more towards the LS model with the bigger forward cabin which appeared in the last of the 233 series as LS models. Also, 242 series, like 272, had cockpit and deck as a single molded item versus 233 series where deck and cockpit were multiple components.

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r3merlin
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Joined: August 17 2005
Posts: 0
Posted: August 17 2005 at 00:00 | IP Logged Quote r3merlin

DOGGYDOO wrote:
JUST  WANT   YOU TO  KNOW I  LOOKED  AT THREE   60 MPH   233  FORMULAS IN THE MIAMI AREA AND HAD TO  BUILD  MINE  FOR SPEED. I'M NOT A  MILLIONAIRE  BUT I THINK BUILDING IT MYSELF I  WILL MAKE IT HAPPEN. THIS  455 OLDS ENGINE IS BUILT TO RUN 6000 RPM SO MY TASK IS TO DESIGN  THE PROP  RIGHT FOR TORQUE AND RPM. JUST WONDERING ABOUT FUEL USE.    I MANAGE A  SUPERBOAT MARINA SO ALL  I DO IS LOOK AND WISH.  DOGGYDOO

Hey doggydoo - back around 83' one of the guys at the Formula/Thunderbird factory down in Miami took a 233 Center Cockpit and dropped a 454 Marine Chevy inder the center cockpit area. Drive shaft out the aft end approximately 2ft before transom, used twin rudders with Hynautic Steering. Single rudder fluttered so bad going straight almost impossible, also angle on prop shaft changed a number of times to get right equation. Wheel on back end was 21" with 20 pitch at start, worked with a 24" and ended back with the 21". Same hull configuration was put together to determine if there was a possible market for the Arnison drive with engine under center cockpit. 233 center cockpit was being phased out real quick so no further work done on mods for any new units. One point you need to consider, 233 hull design never intended for engine weight in center, requiring new fuel tanks to the port and starboard sides. Did encounter problem with fuel transfer between tanks and balance was affected as both tanks needed to burn evenly as balance was affected by weight shift of fuel at various levels on port and starboard sides. Your project sounds interesting but hope your base boat is a center cockpit versus a cuddy unit. Will look for replies, I am located in Miami.

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Cuda
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Joined: August 19 2004
Posts: 117
Posted: August 17 2005 at 00:00 | IP Logged Quote Cuda

r3merlin wrote:

Hey doggydoo - back around 83' one of the guys at the Formula/Thunderbird factory down in Miami took a 233 Center Cockpit and dropped a 454 Marine Chevy inder the center cockpit area. Drive shaft out the aft end approximately 2ft before transom, used twin rudders with Hynautic Steering. Single rudder fluttered so bad going straight almost impossible, also angle on prop shaft changed a number of times to get right equation. Wheel on back end was 21" with 20 pitch at start, worked with a 24" and ended back with the 21". Same hull configuration was put together to determine if there was a possible market for the Arnison drive with engine under center cockpit. 233 center cockpit was being phased out real quick so no further work done on mods for any new units. One point you need to consider, 233 hull design never intended for engine weight in center, requiring new fuel tanks to the port and starboard sides. Did encounter problem with fuel transfer between tanks and balance was affected as both tanks needed to burn evenly as balance was affected by weight shift of fuel at various levels on port and starboard sides. Your project sounds interesting but hope your base boat is a center cockpit versus a cuddy unit. Will look for replies, I am located in Miami.

It sounds like you must have worked at Formula back in the day.  Did the Arneson boat ever hit the water?



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r3merlin
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Joined: August 17 2005
Posts: 0
Posted: August 17 2005 at 00:00 | IP Logged Quote r3merlin

Hey there Cuda - Yeah you are right worked in the Miami plant for some time. The Arneson boat only made it in the one test unit. Scott Porter was interested mainly because Reagan's son was making an ocean racer which the company helped on which had dual Arneson drives. There was some internal conflict as Formula sponsored Betty Cook back then and she had designed the Kaama drives. The Arneson drive worked better on the longer hulls and as a single unit on the 233 very little was gained as to performance versus costs. In that the 233 was being phased out, the company was more interested in dual drive units following the 272LS. Quite a few boats in the 30' range were outfitted with the Kaama drives with the first boat being shown at the 83' Miami Beach Boat show. The 30 foot LS was down at South Beach for demo rides. Betty Cook's 40' Catamaran was also a Formula design by the guys in Decatur and was the only boat being produced in Kevlar.

One other point about those Thunderbird/Formulas, after the Porter family had bought Thunderbird/Formula they were faced with a series of boats that were absolute dogs as to performance and handling with the older 255 Liberator and other units from the 25' hull. Most of the 255 series boats had to have lead glassed into the keel to balance the hull. After the 255 series was gone, the mainstay was the 233 and 302 for almost 2 years while the PC series and smaller 17 and 19 Runabouts were being done up in Indiana. Miami was the hub for the performance boats and the 31 foot cabin cruiser. The big launch for the Porter's was the 402 SR1. It was the first design with a cockpit/deck molded as a single unit. They carried that new design concept into the 272LS and other after that.

Formula also introduced a 31SC as a Fishing boat during this time period complete with a tower from the boys up at PipeWelders in Ft Lauderdale, fish boxes and a fighting chair mounted in the stern.

From the Thunderbird side, the Miami office used to have a very large archive of the early boats from the tri-hulls, 233 and even the 40ft houseboats that Thunderbird built. The library in Miami has some interesting pictures of the Miami to Bimini 1960's houseboat races. A lot of old Thunderbirds in those pics. Don't know if you remember a TV program from the 60's called "Flipper" but the boat used by the Park Ranger character was a tri-hull Thunderbird. On a final note to this post, I have found few people knew that the designed of the Cigarette boats, Don Arronow was also the designer of the 233 hull. During the 60's, so many people were knocking off molds from the 233, Don and some guys from Mako, and a few other shops in S. Florida created a company called Pop-Craft. These companies took their most knocked off hulls and reproduced them under Pop-Craft and sold them for next to nothing to stop the rip-off artists. So, if you ever see a 23.3 ft Pop-Craft, it is the Formula/Thunderbird 233 hull.

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74Formula233
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Joined: April 01 2004
Posts: 73
Posted: August 17 2005 at 00:00 | IP Logged Quote 74Formula233

MERLIN,

If I were down your way, I'd be taking you out for a few beers!    I'm sure you know all sorts of interesting tidbits of the Formula History!

bboats1018,

My shifter is also the electric motor type, and I am still running the factory dual-stick controls.


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pcdoc
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Joined: July 24 2005
Posts: 6
Posted: August 17 2005 at 00:00 | IP Logged Quote pcdoc

Hey r3merlin, I have a 68 tbird 24 foot (Iriquios) that I have just started to restore/refurb. Any info I can find or pictures would be absolutely unbelievably helpful. I am looking forward to getting it in the water hopefully before Winter sets in. Some starting pics will be posted soon.

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blystovski
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Joined: August 17 2005
Posts: 4
Posted: August 17 2005 at 00:00 | IP Logged Quote blystovski

New to this forum.  Have been following it for over a year ever since I acquired a 1976 Formula F20.

I am now nearly done with a rather extensive rebuilding which included replacing the majority of the floor and flotation foam underneath, complete rebuilding of all the original seats, and some mechanical work on the Mercruiser 888 drive.

I have tried to keep everything as close to original as possible.

I do have some questions about the boat and drive.  What type of performance should I be expecting from this drive (Mercruiser 888 is the Ford 302 188 HP block)?  Namely - what speed, and more importantly RPM, should I expect at WOT?  If I remember from last year's trial runs I was hitting around 3700 at WOT, but I'm about to replace the prop.

And for those who like pics...here's a teaser.  I plan on polishing the hull up and replacing the original black stripes down the side.  More to come...and thanks to all for tips, suggestions, and inspiration!


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LittleBit
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Joined: May 31 2005
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Posted: August 17 2005 at 00:00 | IP Logged Quote LittleBit

HI Doggydoo:

I have heard and it looks like the Albemarle 24 uses the F233 hull in its current lineup, which is mid engined with stern drive.  Have a look at their website, albemarleboats.com.  They were also helpfull in advising right away on the trim tabs they use on their hull.

Littlebit - '76 F233

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Cuda
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Joined: August 19 2004
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Posted: August 17 2005 at 00:00 | IP Logged Quote Cuda

Merlin, thanks for the history.  I love Formulas.  I happen to have one of those Kaama powered boats.  Mine is a 1986 302 SR1.  What's really interesting about it, it never sold until 2001.  Huber Yacht in St Pete had a Formula franchise, and my boat was there.  It never sold, so the owner's son in law took it out occasionally.  The guy that bought it before me, purchased it with 42 hours on it in 2001.  It had 252 when I bought it in 2003.  I think the reason it didn't sell was the $148,000 msrp.  That's a lot of 1986 dollars for a thirty footer.



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233 Double E
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Joined: May 05 2004
Posts: 116
Posted: August 18 2005 at 00:00 | IP Logged Quote 233 Double E

Thanks R3Merlin!

That's great history you've passed along.  We're glad to have you.  I'm probably going to add a "history" thread to the forum and your info and contributions will be valuable.  Please visit & contribute often.

Welcome on!


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DOGGYDOO
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Posted: August 18 2005 at 00:00 | IP Logged Quote DOGGYDOO

Doggydoo here...  What i have worked out is to go with a velvet drive  72 c 1:1 which will  enable me to move the engine back about a foot  from the previous set up.  My fuel tank is situated in the cavity previously occupied by the stern drive engine and it holds about 50 gallons, so that weight is all the way astern. I know  50 gallons,  i wont taking in long trips. I am actually building it just to be able to of  run off ft. lauderdale beach and maybe a short hop or two. I am also placing the two batteries on either side of the fuel tank inside the transom. The tank btw is completely below deck so this gives me alot of rear area for fishing  etc. The engine box is custom made but actually smaller as it was crafted from a narrow inline six engine cover and enclosed. Overall I dont feel that there is alot more forward weight than if you had a single engine stern drive and the original belly tank full which was I  believe 107 gallons. Fuel weight alone is over 600 pounds.

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r3merlin
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Joined: August 17 2005
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Posted: August 19 2005 at 00:00 | IP Logged Quote r3merlin

Cuda wrote:

Merlin, thanks for the history.  I love Formulas.  I happen to have one of those Kaama powered boats.  Mine is a 1986 302 SR1.  What's really interesting about it, it never sold until 2001.  Huber Yacht in St Pete had a Formula franchise, and my boat was there.  It never sold, so the owner's son in law took it out occasionally.  The guy that bought it before me, purchased it with 42 hours on it in 2001.  It had 252 when I bought it in 2003.  I think the reason it didn't sell was the $148,000 msrp.  That's a lot of 1986 dollars for a thirty footer.

R3merlin - Cuda, great boat also looked at the video on the engines running up. Know the boat type you have very well. Two points on the Kaama 302 "rough water handling" - 1.) Drives bring the boat up on step real quick, (bet you noticed that) then tended to have the boat run bow level with the water surface. If you haven't yet, you might want to experiment with those tabs and drives to get a better bow up position. Mentioning this as on most occasions bow level no problem, however, seas build up, the bow tended to plow into the rising waves. Noticeable in very slight chop, became scary when seas went over the 4 - 6 foot point. 2.) If you get caught in rough water, the boat will come out in the chop at speed with the drives following hull drop back into the water. On Mercruiser outdrives not much of a big deal as the props rarely left the water. Found out the hard way what happens when the Kaama's smacked back down at high RPM in choppy water (Gulfstream rollers 4 - 6 with wind causing some 8 ft capping) starboard prop entered first and shattered throwing 2 blades. Busted upper fin on Kaama drive aft housing. Limped back on single engine, glad it was company boat during test and not customers.

The point on boat level running is made as a 83' 302LS w/ Kaama's turned torpedo off Ft Lauderdale. Remember the boat well as it was nearly the very first 302 w/Kaama's. Owner and wife sucked out of the cockpit when boat shot under, friends on board in the cuddy did not even know what had happened until boat broached about 50-60 feet away and water poured into the cabin through the cockpit door. Boat came back to Miami factory for insurance repair. One last point on the Kaama drives, periodically check transom thru-bolts. Drives had 6 studs passing thru transom with reinforcement plates under the stud washers and nuts. This is all that keeps the sea out of the people locker.

Not trying to scare you about that gorgeous 302 you have. It is a fantastic boat and as far as fast for price was only overshadowed by the introduction of the 272LS. Considering the timing you mention for the boat sitting at Huber, I remember the Merc results from Lake X in 83 - 84 and most of the dealers saw a better profit, less cost package in the 272LS. 302 & 402 owners most often placed an order versus buying what was on the floor. The 272LS met the need for speed criteria cheaper than the bigger units. By the way, 272LS out of the factory door, standard package would hit 65 mph.

If your boat is the original color scheme, I would probably guess that someone ordered the boat through Huber and the deal fell apart. Great for you and beautiful hull.

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Cuda
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Posted: August 19 2005 at 00:00 | IP Logged Quote Cuda

Yes, the boat does tend to run level, or "wet".  As far as the trim tabs, I never use them.  When I bought the boat, the owner said to drop the tabs and the drives to get on a plane.  That's how I did it at first.  It's tricky working the planes on this boat, I think because there is so little rudder surface in the water.  The first poker run I ran with the boat, I ran a long ways with the boat heeled over quite a bit, because I couldn't find clean enough water to tab it right.  Finally, out in the middle of Tampa Bay, I tried to level it out.  I started messing with the tabs, but I didn't notice I was right on top of a wake, running with it on the top of it.   I dropped the starboard tab.  It must have been about the same time as I was coming off the wake to the same side.  The boat made an abrupt turn to the right, and I damn near t-boned a sailboat.  Skeered the chit out of me.  After that, I found I can get on a plane easily without dropping the tabs, and I don't drop them anymore.  I rarely touch the tabs, sometimes just a touch here or there to level out.

 



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r3merlin
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Posted: August 19 2005 at 00:00 | IP Logged Quote r3merlin

Cuda - if I can find my old notes (real old now) I had done up a few mods for both the tabs and a "rudder" fix on the Kaama's. If you are interested I will look for the drawings. The mods were not permanent so anything added to the tabs could be dropped back off quickly. Basically, the "lack of" rudder you notice was an element of the Kaama drives. I believ, do not know for sure. Betty's later design increased the size and area of the lower skeg on the drive. My idea at the time was very similar and wanted to experiment with different skeg size add-ons based on boat drives were on. If the 302 skeered the chit out of you, imagine a very similar situation in the 402 - pucker factor was off the scale - Great photos of your boat - R3Merlin
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r3merlin
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Posted: August 19 2005 at 00:00 | IP Logged Quote r3merlin

233 Double E - Thank you for your welcoming note. I will try to help all of the Formula owners as much as possible. Some of the history I have comes from getting to test run a number of these units during the early eighties.

By the way, your LS is beautiful and a very fine example of some of the last of the production for the 233 hull. Thanks again - R3merlin

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Posted: August 20 2005 at 00:00 | IP Logged Quote DOGGYDOO

BY THE WAY THERE WAS A 23'3  FORMULA LISTED ON BOATTRADER RECENTLY THAT WAS ARNESON DRIVE. THE BOAT HAD A NEW 454 CHEVY IN IT AND OWNER SAID SHE WOULD DO 60 MPH. I HAD CONSIDERED PURCHASING BUT IT WAS BASICALLY A BARE HULL  WITH NO WINDSHEILD AND WAS MISSING ALOT OF PARTS. THE OWNER HAD IT LISTED AS A CHRIS CRAFT THUNDERBIRD. BUT SHE WAS DEFINITELY A 233.      DAVE IN FT. LAUDERDALE
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trim_tab
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Posted: August 20 2005 at 00:00 | IP Logged Quote trim_tab

DOGGYDOO wrote:
BY THE WAY THERE WAS A 23'3  FORMULA LISTED ON BOATTRADER RECENTLY THAT WAS ARNESON DRIVE. THE BOAT HAD A NEW 454 CHEVY IN IT AND OWNER SAID SHE WOULD DO 60 MPH. I HAD CONSIDERED PURCHASING BUT IT WAS BASICALLY A BARE HULL  WITH NO WINDSHEILD AND WAS MISSING ALOT OF PARTS. THE OWNER HAD IT LISTED AS A CHRIS CRAFT THUNDERBIRD. BUT SHE WAS DEFINITELY A 233.      DAVE IN FT. LAUDERDALE

Windshield Smindshield, i think this is a sweet looking ride (although he did put the windshield back on it)





Edited by trim_tab on 20 August 2005 at 8:13pm


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E.T.A - Late Fall, hopefully

Edited by Sonja Lowe on September 20 2013 at 18:14


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DOGGYDOO
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Posted: August 20 2005 at 00:00 | IP Logged Quote DOGGYDOO

TRIMTAB: YOUR LINK DIDNT  WORK... WONDERIN NOW  IF WERE TALKING ABOUT THE SAME  233. TRY TO GET US  A  WORKIN  LINK....  DAVE  IN  FT.  LAUDERDALE

  BTW YOUR  PROJECT HAS  GIVEN  ME  COURAGE.. ;;DOGGYDOO

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trim_tab
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Posted: August 21 2005 at 00:00 | IP Logged Quote trim_tab

DOGGYDOO wrote:

TRIMTAB: YOUR LINK DIDNT  WORK... WONDERIN NOW  IF WERE TALKING ABOUT THE SAME  233. TRY TO GET US  A  WORKIN  LINK....  DAVE  IN  FT.  LAUDERDALE

  BTW YOUR  PROJECT HAS  GIVEN  ME  COURAGE.. ;;DOGGYDOO

I don't know if that is a good thing or a bad thing...the courage statement that is...in either case, my bro and I have enjoyed it, it has definitely been a humbling experience.  "Anytime you want to hear God laugh, tell him your plans"  that is true for our formula, we planned to be fishing by now...but I would not trade the time that I have spent with my brother and dad over the past year for anything....even a new Whaler!

maybe these will work, I can't get the image to upload, so here is Hawkeye's photo album - for a little more courage maybe:

<link removed>

this one specifically for the "No Windshield":

<link removed>

If you really need some courage, or inspiration, check out the X-shark project boat on www.classicmako.com .  I think that he could do it for a living:

 

 



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Edited by Sonja Lowe on September 20 2013 at 18:16


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trim85
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Posted: August 21 2005 at 00:00 | IP Logged Quote trim85

baranx3, I may have something for you that's a lot closer if you're still looking for a 233.  Mine is in the Annapolis area - a 1979 with fresh water cooled 454, TRS drive, and Imron paiint.  I've had it since '85 but don't use it any more, so it's been in brokerage but I may be pulling it out soon.  If you email me at epiphanyfinancial@verizon.net I'll send you pictures and more details.

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trim_tab
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Posted: August 21 2005 at 00:00 | IP Logged Quote trim_tab

WHERE TO BUY Imron paint?

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65 233 Formula
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Posted: August 22 2005 at 00:00 | IP Logged Quote 65 233 Formula

Hello Everyone. Just found you folks recently. As my username states, I have a 1965 Formula 233 that I picked up back in 2001. She's off white top and hull, helm on port side, cockpit is the teak overlay over plywood, no kitchenette extras or really any seating besides two in the cockpit. Power is 2 110hp ib Volvo Pentas, installed in 1989. Also, she has stainless or aluminum rub rails, not rubber as in later models. Oh also, she's got twin headlights set in the hull on either side just under the bow, very cool. If one of you can tell me where to find the hull number, I can post that for you here as well.

She's for sale, in Minneapolis, MN. Unfortunately, soon after I bought her, I hit a bump in the road, my left leg was amputated due to a traumatic injury (lost my sense of balance and general mobility as well), so I'm really no longer comfortable trying to climb around her even out of the water.

I've got 26 pictures, taken with a point n shoot camera, but I don't know the first thing about how to post them here in the forum, but could email them as attachments to anyone interested. My email should be in the profile.

Been trying to sell her for a while in the Boat Trader, with a few nibbles, but noone really appreciating her for what she is. Wish I could offer her 'Free to good home', but I took out a loan to get her, and need just enough money to pay off the loan. Thanks in advance for any interest.

All the Best,

Erik J.

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65 233 Formula
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Posted: August 22 2005 at 00:00 | IP Logged Quote 65 233 Formula

Hello again. Just checked my profile, where I guess I checked my email address as private. But it's unchecked now, so should be available.

Best, Erik J.


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trim_tab
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Posted: August 22 2005 at 00:00 | IP Logged Quote trim_tab

Erik -

send them to me @ johnmhat@yahoo.com and I will post them for you



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pcdoc
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Posted: August 28 2005 at 00:00 | IP Logged Quote pcdoc

For any one looking, I was in Falmouth, MA (Cape Cod South Shore, Buzzards Bay) and there is an 1988 F26PC for sale that looks outward to be in pretty darn good condition. They were closed (Sunday) so I could only walk around. It is listed at Fidlers Cove Marina and I thing it was Dudely Yacht sales. They have quite a few Tbirds in the Marina so they must do something right up there. Hope it helps someone wanting the finest.

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74Formula233
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Posted: August 30 2005 at 00:00 | IP Logged Quote 74Formula233

65 233 Formula wrote:

Hello Everyone. Just found you folks recently. As my username states, I have a 1965 Formula 233 that I picked up back in 2001. She's off white top and hull, helm on port side, cockpit is the teak overlay over plywood, no kitchenette extras or really any seating besides two in the cockpit. Power is 2 110hp ib Volvo Pentas, installed in 1989. Also, she has stainless or aluminum rub rails, not rubber as in later models. Oh also, she's got twin headlights set in the hull on either side just under the bow, very cool. If one of you can tell me where to find the hull number, I can post that for you here as well.

She's for sale, in Minneapolis, MN. Unfortunately, soon after I bought her, I hit a bump in the road, my left leg was amputated due to a traumatic injury (lost my sense of balance and general mobility as well), so I'm really no longer comfortable trying to climb around her even out of the water.

I've got 26 pictures, taken with a point n shoot camera, but I don't know the first thing about how to post them here in the forum, but could email them as attachments to anyone interested. My email should be in the profile.

Been trying to sell her for a while in the Boat Trader, with a few nibbles, but noone really appreciating her for what she is. Wish I could offer her 'Free to good home', but I took out a loan to get her, and need just enough money to pay off the loan. Thanks in advance for any interest.

All the Best,

Erik J.

To anyone interested in this boat,

I have an original one page piece of literature from a January 1964 Magazine that is a great source of original Specifications, Details, Standard Equipment, etc. (By the way, the standard power was the twin 110 Volvos, as the '65 this guy has for sale has in it).

Price $7.985 F.O.B. Factory

(The BOAT, not the page LOL)

Anyone who needs this piece of literature, I can provide a copy.



Edited by Sonja Lowe on September 20 2013 at 18:17


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65 233 Formula
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Posted: August 30 2005 at 00:00 | IP Logged Quote 65 233 Formula

Hello 74 Formula233,

I would really appreciate a copy of the literature, for the F233 1965.   

Thanks Ray

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65 233 Formula
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Posted: September 07 2005 at 00:00 | IP Logged Quote 65 233 Formula

Hello, 74 Formula 233,

I also would really like a copy of the literature on my 65 Formula 233, thanks.

Also, I am having real problems getting my pictures up on this site. I need someone who can help me with a Plan B, namely, I'll mail the disk to you, or someone else, along with return postage, if you'll post them up on this forum for everyone to see, and then mail the disk back to me.

Anyone willing to help me with this? Thanks in advance for any help you can give.

All the Best,

Erik Jorgensen

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Cuda
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Posted: September 08 2005 at 00:00 | IP Logged Quote Cuda

Hey 65, I use www.imageshack.com to load pics for the site.

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