Posted: August 05 2007 at 13:31 | IP Logged

Oltra1,

The 500 is a great boat and we have a forum here that discusses it extensively( see Murray Chris Craft on the main Chris Craft page).  The boat you are considering came up in one of  our discussions and for the most part, we are at a loss to figure why it is so cheap.

If you find out more, let us know.

John

Posted: September 11 2007 at 16:38 | IP Logged

Hi Oltra,

I guess by now you have either bought Genie IV or passed on to other boats.  She used to be Cheers IV and was on sale for a long time.  I went past her in Boston last week and that brought her back to mind.  Unfortunately she was too far away to get a close up look.

She was on sale in July of 2004 and had a hailing port of Boston.  Apparently, she sold to a new owner sometime in 2005 who had a spurt of enthusiasm but quickly lost interest.  The boat looks, on the basis of the ad, as though a major cosmetic overhaul had been aborted halfway through the project.  All of the equipment appears to be original stuff with no significant upgrades other than the GPS.

The fact that no engine hours are listed indicates that she probably has moderately high hours.  The boat has no radar arch, no canvas and very little bridge furniture.  The Furuno radar antenna antena appears to be mounted on the forward face of the flybridge.  At this level it is not particulaly good for the health or electronic interference.  Much of the interior furniture also appears to be missing.  We discussed her on the Murray CC site but couldn't tell, based only on the broker's ad, whether there was anything major wrong with her.

But if you have lots of energy, money and time she could be a good fixer-upper.  As of today (September 11) she is still for sale and at $135K is a bargain if she is in good shape.

Pete37 

Pete37

Posted: September 12 2007 at 18:46 | IP Logged

Hi Tony, Vicki & John,

The phrase "she's a very wet boat" in New Englander jargon means that a boat throws a lot of spray when pushed hard through high waves.  It has nothing to do with the condition of the fiberglass.  Of course the brokers could have meant that the fiberglass was defective.  I didn't hear the exact phrasing of what they said. But it would surprise me very much if there was anything structurally wrong with the fiberglass since nothing of that nature has shown up on any other Connies.

All Connies are "very wet" and I'm sure that "Five Star" shares that characteristic along with my boat "Interlude" and 71 other Connies.  Push a Connie hard through ten foot waves and she will stick her bow down into the oncoming wave, pick up a couple thousand lbs. of water as she rises and flip it onto the flybridge.  A raincoat won't do any good.  What you need is a schnorkle.

But that characteristic is true of an awful lot of boats.  Hatteras, a very well respected brand, does exactly the same thing.  It's basically a matter of the height of the bow.  Put a 10 foot high bow on either a Connie or a Hatteras and the problem will go away.  Most of us have the sense to stay out of ten foot waves and when unavaoidably caught in them not to push too hard.

Pete37

Posted: September 12 2007 at 21:49 | IP Logged

Hey Oltra,

I have an 86 Connie which I purchased 5 years ago "under-book".  As a surveyor I somewhat knew what I was getting into.  I've spent somewhere around the $55K+ in 5 years.  At the price you're looking at, you must obtain the services of a qualified surveyor.  I recommend either SAMS or NAMS.  As Pete mentioned, the mid-80's Connies weren't noted for wet bottoms but it's a possibility.  One area of concern is wet (core saturation) decks.  There are three areas of concern on my boat in that regard, but nothing that cannot be taken care of.  You'll most certainly find high moisture content in the toe-rails.  You can live with that, but the stanchions will surely need to be re-bedded to stem further moisture intrusion.  Not a tough job if undertaken with patience.  Look for signs of window leaks and wood rot.  I had a small area between the starboard lower salon windows.  Properly sealing the windows stopped the leak and I repaired the rotted area with a little ingenuity.  The BIG issue is the state of the engines.  DO NOT buy the boat without a diesel engine survey.  If the engines are extraordinarly high (low price?) hour engines, you'll regret the day you bought the boat, unless you go in knowing that you're going to spend about $3200 per cylinder to in-frame the engines.  The the bottom is sound and the decks in reasonable shape and the engines survey out well, you're go to go on upgrading the vessel.  I've replaced many, many things on my boat.  But I now own a Connie that many people don't realize is a 1986 and will turn a head or two.  I'm very proud of SOUTHERN CHARM and what my wife and I have accomplished in 5 years with her.   And to those who say you cannot replace the frige.  Yes you can.  If you really want fun, replace the water heater.

Posted: September 12 2007 at 22:59 | IP Logged

Hi Emory and Oltra,

Emory is right the cored decks can be a very serious problem.  Failure doesn't occur often but it can be a mess when it does.  There is one Connie in my area that had cored deck failure.  It was repaired but even after repair it looks like hell.  Connie decks are particularly prone to core failure because due to an error in the deck design water puddles on the decks rather than running off as it should.  Connies list to port due to the fact that the generator is off center and not compensated by other weights.  It's not obvious but anyone who observes carefully will see it.  Because of the list most of the puddling occurs on the starboard deck.

I have found that by keeping the starboard saddle tank full while the port is half full corrects the list.  Fuel burns off evenly so by the time the port tank is empty the starboard tank will still be half full and the list is still corrected.  The net effect is to reduce you saddle tank capacity to 100 gallons total from 200 gallons. But we rarely need all the fuel capacity anyway.  By eliminating the list, most of the puddling is also eliminated.

I've been rebedding my stanchions for some time now but the rebedding doesn't seem to last very long.  What type of caulk do you suggest Emory?

As Emory states, the biggest question mark is the condition of the engines.  A detailed diesel engine survey is essential.  Good engine surveys are expensive but worth every  penny.

From my own experience if the risers are cast iron and have not been replaced in the last seven years replace them immediately.  Rubber hoses on a 20 year old boat are ticking time bombs that can sink her.  If you can't verify that the hoses have been replaced in the last ten years replace them immediately.

At $3200 per hole 12 cylinders will cost you $38,400 for an in-frame overhaul and accessories can easily bump that by $20K to $58,400 especially if some of your components cannot be rebuilt.  In that case you will encounter large core charges.

On Connies all of the thru hull strainers (except the main engine intakes) were attached to their hoses with red brass nipples.  Red brass doesn't dezincify but it does not have the same galvanic pontential as the bronze strainers and will corrode when attached to them.  There are three head intakes, an air conditioning intake and a generator intake. That's five strainers with two nipples per strainer or 10 nipples in all.  Any one of them can fail and sink your boat.  I've removed three strainers so far and seen serious corrosion in all 6 nipples.  My air conditioner's strainer fell off due to corrosion of one the brass nipples.  Use the bronze hose adapters made by Groco to replace them.  While you are at it you should probably replace the hoses too.  The corrosion tends to be greater as the flow increases so expect your generator and air conditioner to fail first.  Your head have less flow so the red brass nipples will last longer.  Corrosion is serious.  If you value your boat replace those red brass nipples.

Since I have kept my boat under cover since I bought her (the last 13 years) I can't comment on dry rot or window leak problems.  I don't seem to have any.

I've done a fair amount of study into the longevity of Detroit 6V92s.  They start to have major problems as early as 800 hours. I attribute these failures due to infant mortality and major abuse by the owners.  By 1600 hours about half of the engines have had major overhauls.  And by 2400 hours most have had major overhauls.  A few lucky specimens may last to 3000 hours and the absolute maximum I have ever seen is 3400 hours.  But that 3400 hour specimen couldn't be verified. 

A very rough estimate would be a straight line decline with about 1/4 failing at or before 750 hours, a half failing at or before 1500 hours 3/4 failing by 2250 hours and all failing by 3000 hours.  For a typical 75 hour per year boat that would mean 1/4 by 10 years, 1/2 by 20 years, 3/4 by 30 years and all by 40 years.  But frankly I'm dubious about any of them lasting beyond 30 years.  We just don't have data to take aging as well as wear into account.

If you have replaced the standard two door fridge, Emory, please tell us how you did it. I haven't had to do it yet but dred the time that it happens.  I'm hoping that replacing the compressors will make it last another 15 years which is plenty for me.  After that the next owner can worry about it.

On the subject of restoring shine to the hull, a standard boat yard buffing just doesn't do it.  The results last for a while but just don't endure.  However, that subject is just too complex to discuss here.  There, I've used the word "just" three times in three sentences.  My grammar teacher would give me a "C" on that paragraph.

I've replaced the water heater once already without any sweat but hope I don't have to do it a second time.

Don't let these problems overly scare you.  Most of them are the same type of problems that you will encounter with any boat you buy.

Pete37