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Pete37
"Commander"




Joined: November 12 2006
Posts: 2317
Posted: September 13 2007 at 10:59 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi John,

Yes a compressor is a bit sloppy and does blow some dust around which you have to clean up but it does a better job than anything else I've used.  I did the vacuum and brush routine but wasn't satsifed with the results.  If you're worried about the dust wear a mask but it doesn't seem likely that you're going to pick up Legionnaires disease from the dust in a boat that is used by only a very small number of people.

Pete37



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Pete37
"Commander"




Joined: November 12 2006
Posts: 2317
Posted: September 13 2007 at 11:40 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

To All:

Subj: Hard to get door latch

While I was hunting for Corey's door latch I came across a part I've that I have been trying to find for a long time.  The part I'm talking about is the door latch for the door leading to the stern ladder.  I've known for a long time that it was a screen door latch which, in a brass version, can be obtained at most large hardware stores but I didn't know who made them in a chrome plated version.  A brass version of this screen door latch is also used on the door between the engine room and generator compartment.

These latches are usually made in brass but parts of them are steel and rust out rather quickly.  I found the chrome plated version at Windor Supply & Manufacturing Co., www.windor.com.  It's part #410-9806 and sells for $32.00.  Phone numbers, etc. are on their web site.

Pete37



Edited by Pete37 on September 13 2007 at 11:52


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Monopoly1954
"Deckhand"




Joined: July 02 2007
Posts: 107
Posted: September 13 2007 at 12:26 | IP Logged Quote Monopoly1954

Good Afternoon All,

Thanks for the information on the latch. I have been looking for two years without success. I ordered one this morning. The cost of 32.00 plus shipping is nothing compared to the time spent looking ...even at 1.00 per hour.....lol....


Thanks for the direction


Corey Finkelstein


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Corey Finkelstein
Monopoly1954@hotmail.com
MONOPOLY
1986 Chriscraft 500
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Pete37
"Commander"




Joined: November 12 2006
Posts: 2317
Posted: September 13 2007 at 12:44 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Corey,

I guess you know that's not the latch for the master cabin closet doors.  Haven't ordered mine yet so I don't know whether it fits but the drawing looks identical.  Let me know whether it fits.

Pete37



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Monopoly1954
"Deckhand"




Joined: July 02 2007
Posts: 107
Posted: September 13 2007 at 14:29 | IP Logged Quote Monopoly1954

Hi Pete,

Yes I know the lock for the aft cabin closet door is different. I agree the picture is the
correct latch for the stern door. They will ship this week and I should have it middle of next week.

I have been reading some of the messages about installing waste tanks. I installed an 81 gallon tank in 12-03. Built by headhunter in florida. I was at the factory. I installed in the generator compartment. I built a cover on the waste taank so it would not be stressed when gaining access to the generator, pumps and hot water tank. It has worked out very well.

I had a smell for a couple of years ....smell like waste tank. I replaced all the hoses and it was still there. I changed the heads over to fresh water and the smell disappeared. 

I think I am going to follow the rest of the posts and change my fuel lines. I have the same smell of fuel. I think it takes 360 lf. Wow. just eye balling the job I thought it would be a couple of hundred feet. Has anyone put in any transfer pumps?

Has anyone installed new Yanmar engines. I am thinking of dropping in a couple. The dealer claims I will get 5 knots more on the top end and fuel consumption will drop. Sounds to good to be true.

I am planning to cut a hole in the top to swap engines and replace the hole with an electric sliding moonroof. I am 6'5" and the head room would be nice.

I would be interested in any  stories other owners might have. I am planning to sell the 6V92's that I have as complete engines and transmissions.  Does anyone have an idea what they might bring.

 Thanks for all the information


Corey


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Corey Finkelstein
Monopoly1954@hotmail.com
MONOPOLY
1986 Chriscraft 500
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Pete37
"Commander"




Joined: November 12 2006
Posts: 2317
Posted: September 13 2007 at 21:24 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Corey,

Dealers always tell you their engines are more efficient but there is barely any difference between the efficiencies of the different engines.  There is a basic physical limit to how many horespower hours that you can get out of a gallon of diesel fuel and nearly all manufacturers reach that limit.  Expect about 18.2 horsepower hours per gallon for a 4 cycle diesel.  Two cycle 6V92s get about 18.0 horsepower hours per gallon.  You my get a shinier, cleaner new engine but your fuel consumption isn't going to change and your speed isn't going to change (for equal horsepowers).

Going from 21 knots (which is about what a pair of 530 hp 6V92TIs will do at max rpm) to 26 knots will require a pair of 1005 hp engines and your fuel consumption will jump by 90%.   And it makes no difference whose diesels you use.  They all reach very nearly the maximum possible fuel economy.  Your friendly neighborhood dealer is telling you some big time lies.  His claims are too good to be true.  Ask him whether he has a degree in mechanical engineering.

Smelly heads are normal in the summer if you use bay water.  The water is polluted and if it sits in the toilet bowl for a couple of days it ferments and stinks to high hell.  The solution is to switch to heads that use fresh water to fill the bowls.  That's what you found out.  I replaced two of my heads for the same reason this spring and now there is no odor.  The third is scheduled for next spring.

A great deal of of the smell from the fuel lines comes from people who carelessly step on the hoses while working in the engine room.  In Connies the hoses are poorly located, unprotected and very easy to step on them.  Every time you step on them you create microfractures which weep when the hoses are under pressure.  That's one of the reasons the diesel smell is worst just after running them.  There are of course leaks in the engine too which add to the odor.  If you install new hoses try to route them so they can't be stepped on.

To answer your question; No, I don't know of anyone who has installed Yanmars. And in fact after looking at brokers ads for hundreds of Connies for ten years or so I only know of one Connie in which new engines were installed.  And those engines were Detroits.  There are lots of Connies which have had rebuilds though.

If you are serious about the moonroof, I think you should talk to Ken who is a frequent contributor to this forum.  He is an expert in upgrading Connies and has just completed a massive overhaul of a Connie.  He may have space in his shop to take on your project if you act quickly.

My guess is that your engines wouldn't be worth much more than $10K each.  I base that on the fact that a 6V92 can be in-frame overhauled for about $3.2K per cylinder or $19.2K per engine.  In order to use your engines the owner would have to remove his engines from the boat and replace them with your engines.  This isn't cheap.  It would cost at least $3K per engine for the swap which raises the cost of installing your engines in his boat to about $13K each.  And if he does an in-frame overhaul of his engines he has nearly the equivalent of a new engine while your engines are seven years old and in unknown condition.  I think $10K would be a generous offer.  Of course he would then have his engines (which are presumably in poor condition) which he might sell someday for $5K each.

I made a quick check on Boatdiesel.com to see if I could find a pair of used 6V92s but wasn't successful.  However, I did find a pair of brand new 6V92s with transmissions in factory crates at $50K or $25K each (damned good deal if you need a pair of new engines).  Maybe someone on this forum will jump on it.  Your engines with seven years use might go for half of that or $12.5K each provided you include the transmissions. 

Frankly, since your engines have less than 500 hours SMOH I can't see any reason that you would even be considering new engines unless that extra five knots is critical to you.  But I doubt there is enough room in a Connie engine room to accomodate the pair of 1000 hp. diesels which would be required to get the extra five knots.

Pete37



Edited by Pete37 on September 13 2007 at 21:59


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TStellato
"Deckhand"




Joined: August 12 2007
Posts: 206
Posted: September 14 2007 at 10:06 | IP Logged Quote TStellato


Pete,

Documentation was sent in.  I had to wait until the boat arrived with the paperwork before I could submit it.  New name board is being worked on.  Has anyone ordered the replacement logo for the bow?  I saw the link to order them on the forum, but I think that they said that they were plastic.  Were the originals chrome?

Carpet was put in yesterday and we did decide to pull up the parquet in the lower salon.  Have to order more carpet but will leave one big piece binded to fold back to access main hatches and then cut and bind around the generator hatches.  I never did like the cut-up look of the carpet and parquet together.  Left the parquet in the upper salon since it covers the entry area and will take more abuse than the carpet.

Putting in a wine cooler where the old tv was in the upper wet bar area with a few modifications to the wood.  We are looking for a replacement A/C for the upper salon area.  The one on the lower helm was taken out and replaced with a side band radio.  That area really needs 2 units on some days.

We are in and out of town on the weekends but would try for sometime in October, based on our haulout schedule.  I think that with notice and pre-planning that we could get some interest from all up and down the bay for all Connie owners for a spring or summer outing.  Would you limit it to just the fiberglass Connies or include some of the old models too?

Emory, we are at Cantler's at least once a week and can see your boat from the deck.  Looks great from the outside.  We are on the South River right now and not as close to Cantler's as we were when we were on Back Creek.  We are exploring the South River for short trips in between working on projects. 

Project list is getting a bit shorter.  Just anxious to get the rest of the furniture in and be able to just sit and relax a bit.  We will be hauling out in the next few weeks to do the bottom.  We were fortunate that one of the engines was completely rebuilt as part of the sale, so mechanically we are sound for now.  We did have a diesel survey and a moisture reading done along with the normal survey.  Our winter list will include the minor items.  We need to have the forward head rebuilt and will take it up to Jersey.  We are going to eventually change out the heads to fresh water.  This site has been great to go through and see the helpful hints that are posted.

Vicki
FIVE STAR


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Pete37
"Commander"




Joined: November 12 2006
Posts: 2317
Posted: September 14 2007 at 10:27 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Tony & Vicki,

How does a rendezvous on the weekend of the 22nd sound?  Somewhere in the Annapolis area.  Doesn't make much difference which river it's on.  I think we have three boats so far; yours, mine and "Southern Charm" (Capt. Emory).  I'm negotiating on a varnish job which may screw me up.  I have to see what their schedule is like.  I think we should all meet at Cantler's for dinner and work out the details of this rendezvous.  Both you and Emory seem to prefer sometime in October but the weather gtes iffy then so we don't want to go to far into October.

I ordered a replacement logo for the bow about 10 years ago.  It comes as a shell and has to be filled with epoxy and painted with gold paint.  The originals were plastic painted gold.  Not all gold paints are the same so you may have to paint both logos even if you are only buying one.  Wasn't much of a problem putting it on.  Just remember to tie a string to it before you start working so you don't drop it overside.

I never cared for parquet.  It's too dark and makes the boat look small and gloomy.  Think you made the right choice going to all carpet in the lower salon.  Avoid dark colors and busy patterns.  You can decide on the upper salon later.

I love wine but have never bothered to put in a wine cooler.  Where are you going to mount your upper salon TV?  I've got an old tube type TV in the upper salon but will probably replace it in the near future.  Perhaps some day I'll see how you have mounted your TV.

Without two A/Cs in the upper salon it will be very hot in the summer.  You really need two units.  They aren't cheap though.  It's amazing how some people mess up their boats.  The original console A/C was mounted on the floor under the console just to the left of the double door. 

I don't think we should be snotty and limit who can come to the rendezvous.  Let anyone come with any kind of boat (within reason) but let's try to keep the emphasis on fiberglass Connies. If you have some friends with a non-Connie boat bring them along.  The danger is that there are so many old woody Chris's that we may wind up with another classic boat club rendezvous.

I did some research on how many Connies are on the Bay.  I counted 16 of which 3 are 460s, 10 are 500s and 3 are 501s.  But out of that 16 only about 6 are likely to come to a rendezvous (for various reasons).

I would recommend that you change your heads to fresh water as fast as possible.  The Bay water is polluted and when it sits in the bowl for a few days it ferments and stinks to high hell.  You won't have much trouble with that this winter but hold your nose when summer comes.  I replaced two of my heads with Jabsco fresh water units that I got for about $450 each this spring.  The last will be replaced next spring.  You can buy the Jabsco units without the bowl and seat and use the bowl and seat from your old heads if they are in good shape. It saves about $150.

If you are going to switch to fresh water anyway I wouldn't bother rebuilding the forward head (especially if it's one of the old Galley Maid units).  Install a new head now.  Installing the heads is reasonably simple if you have moderate mechanical skills.  It took me two days to replace the first head and one day for the second.  Rebuilding or replacing heads is reasonably simple work that doesn't require a professional.  Some heads can be switched to fresh water without rebuilding them.  What heads do you have now?  The Jabsco heads have three flush modes which is nice.  So far they have worked flawlessly.

Pete37

 

 



Edited by Pete37 on September 14 2007 at 11:38


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Furman1
"Deckhand"




Joined: November 27 2006
Posts: 227
Posted: September 14 2007 at 10:54 | IP Logged Quote Furman1

Corey,

The biggest problem with the fuel lines is age. The diesel slowly breaks down the rubber over the years and after 20 or so years it will start to weep through.  Steping on the lines will make this happen faster.  I had fuel weeping through in places where no one could have possiblly steped.



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Remember...the nearest land is usually beneath the boat!

Furman
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Banjoman
"First Mate"




Joined: July 02 2007
Posts: 553
Posted: September 14 2007 at 16:56 | IP Logged Quote Banjoman

Pete - The 1st mate and myself are going to the UVA/GA Tech game on the 22nd and I've got a commitment on the 5th of October but could meet you guys on the 6th/7th or even the following weekend.  I know what you mean about iffy weather, but we might get lucky and end up with one of those "perfect" early October weekends with warm days and nice cool nights.  My weather!

Furman - I think you're right about the fuel line.  Without a doubt, I have to replace the lines on the manifold, and in the engine room.  I imagine the heat from the engines exacerbates the deterioration process. 

Had a diver clean the bottom of my boat on Wednesday.  He said that he guessed he could fill a 5 gallon bucket with the amount of stuff he got off the bottom.  It will be interesting to see how much improvement this will make in my rpms and smoke, etc.  Eric (the diver) said to me that he and other divers have mostly concurred that this has been the worst year in 15 to 20 years for bottom fouling/growth that they have seen!  He had to move his monthly clients to every 3 weeks to keep them performing well.

Has anyone had a fuel restriction issue caused by old or deteriorate fuel lines? I'd like to know.

Vicki - I just pulled up all the old parquet from my galley and installed teak and holly (veneer over ply) and used a satin finish.  I'll swear my galley looks a foot longer!  I'm so very happy with the way it turned out.  I bought my stuff from Atlantic Plywood and Flooring in Richmond Virginia.  It was WAY cheaper than any place in Maryland. 

As for carpeting.  By all means think it through and figure ways to do it whereby you can remove or pull back the carpet with relative ease.  I'll wager that the one hatch you carpet over will be the FIRST one you'll have to get to.  I know.

Have a great weekend all.  We'll be heading to Annap. tonight and run the old girl out probably tomorrow and see how she does.  If I cannot get to top rpm's at full load to 2300 and mostly eliminate sooting my transom, I'll scream!  I've been chasing one problem after the other for 4 years (mostly created by a crappy mechanic in the Solomon's who did a very bad/sloppy job when he overhauled the port engine for the last owner.  I'd like to wring his neck.  But's that a story we can talk about over a couple of beers!)

Emory Shover - SOUTHERN CHARM



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Capt. G. Emory Shover
m/v "SOUTHERN CHARM"
Eastern Marine Services, LLC
Marine Survey - Yacht Delivery
www.easternmarineservices.com
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Pete37
"Commander"




Joined: November 12 2006
Posts: 2317
Posted: September 14 2007 at 17:48 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Testing

Edited by Pete37 on September 18 2007 at 12:51


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TStellato
"Deckhand"




Joined: August 12 2007
Posts: 206
Posted: September 14 2007 at 23:32 | IP Logged Quote TStellato


Hi all,

We took a break this weekend and went to the RV show in PA.  Carpet was installed Thurs and Fri in all areas except the lower salon because at 11pm last night we decided to pull up the parquet.  Which meant ordering new  carpet.  So the bridge carpet will be done next week along with finishing the lower salon.  The parquet had to go.  I have a light butter colored berber installed all through out.  The blinds wil be replaced this week to a light ivory (copper are in there now).  Upper salon furniture arrives on Tues and the lower salon couch is ready to be put together.  I agree totally on the light colors.  We had a 40' Egg before and I put white carpet all inside.  It made the wood glow in a good way.  Our other boat Lifestyles was 83' and had a 16 x 30 salon so I was able to use rich colors.  We took a break but will strip off the parquet tiles on Monday.

We live aboard so really anytime is good except we have to finish a few projects in the next week or so and we are looking at a haulout.  Cantler's and crabs sound good.  Pete, Cantler's has the gas dock and the 2 inside slips on the other side that will fit a 50.  Also Jimmy's dock is around the corner and he puts bigger boats on his t-pier.  Emory could walk the 2 docks down.  Anchoring in Mill Creek is great.  Very quiet.

We would love to have you "older" owners look at ours and talk about what you have done.  So far we have ripped out the built in couch in the lower salon.  Added satallite (Camper's World discontinued KVH and has them on sale for $865 vs. the original $2300).  It is the lower profile dome but we were able to mount it on the radar arch by putting a stainless disc under it.  Carpet installed throughout.  Had the topside compounded and waxed (hull to be done when we haul out).  Took out the upper salon TV and replaced with a wine cooler from Home Depot (also holds soda and beer).  Replaced all furniture and the Fridge.  We got a devise that will mechanically raise the flat panel TV from a soon to built or ordered cabinet.  Only need a cabinet 8" deep.  Will put this on the upper salon starboard wall.  It will keep the back door clear and the TV will be secure underway.  Former owners took the head out of the master head, so a bit awkward in the mornings deciding whether to use the head or brush your teeth first!  We will decide if we want to replace it in the future.  Forward head does not work so we will replace.  Good point in thinking about just replacing with new.  We do have a holding tank, looks like it is original.  Bow cushions and bridge cushions are being made.  I would have loved to have had the original L-shaped seats up there.

Haulout will include new zincs and bottom paint and replacing the bow emblems (both are gone).  All in all we feel like we got a great deal on the boat.  It just needed cosmetics and minor things like had a leaky pipe in the lower guest head and replaced a few float switches.  We still need to go through Pete's great check list to check the major items like the risers, etc.

Let's see if even a Sat or Sun afternoon work.  There is also Mike's on the South River.    BTW how can I change my auto signature?  Vicki

Tony and Vicki
FIVE STAR

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Pete37
"Commander"




Joined: November 12 2006
Posts: 2317
Posted: September 15 2007 at 18:57 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Tony & Vicki,

You click on "My Profile" in the upper left hand corner of this screen to change your auto signature. 

Bridge carpet sounds nice but how do you keep it dry?  I had a boat with bridge carpet once but it got wet when it rained and dribbled for several days afterward.  It came with the boat and wasn't in great shape when we got it.  After a few months we tossed it.  I've seen some Connies on the brokers ads that had carpet but they all had full enclosures.  The pictures I've seen of Bohemia don't indicate an enclosure.

I'm curious at why you are hauling out in October.  The season is pretty much over by then and the water is getting cold enough that bottom fouling is pretty much over too.  I assume you had it hauled when you bought it so you should know what the bottom looks like.  If you paint now the paint probably won't last all the way through next summer.  It'll be good enough to last until July but after that it will be marginal.  Why not wait until April and paint then.  Of course if there's something wrong down below that needs immediate attention that's a different matter.  Perhaps compounding and waxing the hull is the driving factor.

If you had a built in couch that must have been one of the previous owner's concocktions.  As far as I know all of the furniture in Connies (except the dinnette seats and stateroom beds) was moveable. 

We have cable TV in our marina so I haven't bothered with satellite TV.  If you have a radar on your radar arch you may have some compatibility problems with the satellite TV.  I turned my radar on a few days ago for testing and nearly fried the GPS.  Two swings of the radar antenna and the GPS went out.  Fortunately it came back on after the radar was turned off and the GPS was restarted.

I can't quite visualize how you're going to mount a TV on the starboard wall of the upper salon.  The only wall that is higher than the top of the bar is a small strip about 12" wide aft of the starboard door.  That isn't suitable.  If I tossed the chair on the starboard wall I could mount a TV on the wall behind where the chair presently stands. 

But it would have to be below the window.  And that's the wall where the window usually has water leaks.  I don't have those leaks because I keep my boat in a covered shed but a lot of the Connie owners in open slips have been talking about them.  And nobody seems to be able to pinpoint where the leaks come from.  Raindrops dripping on your TV doesn't sound like a good situation.  A little research into whether the location you have picked is dry is in order.  Wetness probably isn't a problem but it pays to be safe rather than sorry.  From what I've heard the new panel TVs are very moisture intolerant.

Having a toilet in your master stateroom is sort of expected and it really doesn't get in the way.  At $450 it's a fairly cheap fix and it's easy to install.  If there are two of you aboard you will want two fully functional heads and the head in the bow is in a very inconvenient location.  One of the problems with heads is that even new ones have relatively high failure rates.  Redundancy is important.  And keep in mind that the head in the bow is unuseable when underway in any kind of sea.

We have three toilets and two of them (which were installed this year) are fed from the fresh water system.  The third (the one in the bow) which will be installed next spring will be bay water fed with a DC pump.  That way if the fresh water system or generator takes a dive we will have at least one head that works.  The thru-hull and plumbing to the holding tank are already in place.  If I buy another Jabsco unit the raw water version with DC pump is only about $75 more.

The L-shaped lounge seats on the flying bridge were not standard equipment.  They were a $1,995 optional equipment list item.  Since a fully equipped Connie has three of them many owners did not take this nearly $6,000 option.  Today that $6,000 item would cost about $17,500.  That's about $2,000 per seat.  And some owners threw them away!

In July of 1984, the list price for a Constellation 500 was $416,000.  Today it would be over $1.2 million (assuming 5% per year inflation).  See what a bargain you got. Buy a $200,000 yacht, put in a little sweat equity and you have a million dollar yacht.

Pete37

 

 



Edited by Pete37 on September 15 2007 at 22:34


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TStellato
"Deckhand"




Joined: August 12 2007
Posts: 206
Posted: September 16 2007 at 18:38 | IP Logged Quote TStellato



We are going to pull not only to have the hull waxed but the zincs are 70% gone.  We normally put 3-4 coats on the bottom so we feel like we will be ok for next year.  The TV will be in a cabinet on that starboard wall  go to tvstandshowcase.com  We got a devise like that on EBay for about $500 and are looking for a ready made cabinet that we can install it inside.  We plan on replace the top of the cabinet with a piece of light colored onyx and also replacing the top of the wet bar to match. on the bar we will install a light in the cabinet and it will light up the onyx and make it glow from above.  We can have a 40" TV in the salon and lower it when underway.  It will also free up the top of the bar (where we currently have the TV).\

Started on the parquet when we got back.  They must have used super glue to hold the parquet down!  Slow going.  We have until Weds before the carpet guy comes back.  We do not have radar installed yet but will look at the satallite interference when installing.  Two neighbors have the same dish and radar and do not appear to have any problems.  Will talk to them.

We appear to have a small leak under the back door where others have had problems.  We will look at the various solutions that have been posted.  There are no other leaks throughout the boat.

Why can't you use the forward head underway?  I was planning on using that head as my guest head since I only have one aft for owners.  We will probably replace the head in the master.  It appears that former owners took it out to create more room coming out of the shower.  They then tiled all 3 heads on the floor.  So it is not on the short list of projects, because that will lead to redoing the  floor in the master head.

We have had outdoor carpet on several boats without a bridge enclosure.  Just need to make sure that they are powerwashed in the spring with the tree pollen.  It does drip a bit and we will have to see how this boat runs it off.  I just prefer the carpet as opposed to the bare deck.  We will see how it goes.  The stuff that I get from my carpet guy lasted us almost 10 years on our other boat which we chartered.  True we did have gutters all around and it was a steel boat, but I am going to try it on this boat.  At this point we have no plans to enclose the upper.  I like the open feel.  Most we would do is enclose from the arch forward.

Emory,  Are you on your own dock or someone's private dock?  We are looking for a perm. home but we are liveaboards.  I tried at 2 of the Cantler brothers but they have nothing for us right now.  We are on waiting lists for Port Annapolis and Annapolis Landing.  Where we are does not have any other liveaboards and winter water is iffy.  Keep an ear open for us on Mill Creek.  It really is a great area.


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Pete37
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Posted: September 16 2007 at 20:19 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Tony & Vicki,

Wow!  One coat of bottom paint per year is plenty in MD!  Three or four is a waste of money and quickly loads up the bottom so much that you will have to sandblast every several years.  Bottom paint is not like varnish.  You don't need multiple coats and the only coat which is going to be effective anyway is the last coat put on.  If you have a bare hull perhaps two coats might be put on to cover up holidays. 

I use Micron CSC (a two year paint) and only paint every second year.  It saves money and works fine.  But I have the boat quick hauled every other year to touch up the boot stripe, props, shafts and rudders.  The props, shafts and rudders in particular need attention every year regardless of how many coats of paint you put on.  The paint quickly erodes off the props.  I also feel that the bottom needs to be inspected every year to detect any underwater problems before they become serious.  Zincs also need to be replaced every year. 

We have a 17" tube type TV in the upper salon.  It's antiquated but adequate.  I may replace it with a panel type TV in the future but I don't think I could get much more than a 21" TV in the under bar cabinet.  However, what we have found is that when you are having a party the upper salon is far too crowded to do much TV watching.  There is always someone in the way making a drink, etc. Maximum practical seating in the upper salon is about six; four in the settee, and two in the loveseat.  The present barrel chair would have to be eliminated because of the large TV.  A 40" TV would be wasted on such a small audience.

If I wanted a 40" TV I think would mount it in the lower salon on the back of the refrigerator cabinet.  There's plenty of room and I don't have to worry about glare from the windows, water or tricky raising mechanisms.  But frankly 40" TVs are really too big for the upper or lower salon.  A 32" TV would be more than adequate in the small salons of a 50' boat.  All you get by having a larger TV is a bigger price and a larger blur (and of course bragging rights).

Seating in the lower salon is also only six; three in the couch, one in the barrel chair and two in the dinette chairs.  But there is room for about three more bridge chairs. The guests could make their drinks at the bar in the upper salon, the galley or the dinette without interfering with the large TV and some guests might opt to view the small TV in the upper salon.   Drink setups, finger food, etc. could also be set up on the dinnette table during parties.  In a large party it makes more sense to have TV viewing, drink facilities and food in two locations rather than trying to cram it all into one rather small upper salon. 

For personal viewing, where there are only two of you, the lower salon is more comfortable.  It is quieter, there is less sunlight glare, in the summer it is cooler and in the winter it is warmer.  The galley, dinette and head are nearby and the bar is only a few steps away. But these are just my own humble opinions. 

I have a radar but rarely use it.  I turn it on once or twice a year just to make sure it still works.  If it breaks down I'm not sure I would bother to repair it.  It's a nice prestige item but really unnecessary on the Chesapeake Bay.  I saw a cruiser running down the Bay today in bright beautiful weather with his radar happily thrashing away.  He certainly didn't need it but perhaps he was practicing for a stormy day.  They are useful in a pea soup fog but we don't have many of those on the Bay and most of us are smart enough not to go out in pea soup fogs.  After you have furnished your boat with all the other toys it might be useful but put it last on your priority list.  BTW, it takes a lot of practice to learn how to read a radar display and you really need one person reading the display while the other takes care of running the boat.

If the previous owners took the toilet out of the master head because they needed more room getting out of the shower they must have been either very heavy or physically disabled.  I use the master head all the time and have no trouble getting out of the shower.  I will grant that the master head isn't as spacious as the bathrooms we have at home but getting out of the shower isn't a problem. 

The original heads had a reasonably pleasant marbled texture floor and if you wanted a fancier floor you could add rugs.  It's too bad the previous owner complicated things by tiling the head floors.  It makes maintenance of the toilets much more complicated.

You can use your forward head for guests as long as they use it only in relatively calm conditions.  You can't use the forward head in a rough sea because the bow is the roughest part of the boat.  If you try to use the forward head in a rough sea you're going to get bounced off the ceiling.  We had one guest try to use the forward head in a chop of about three feet.  We told her to use the master head since that's the calmest when underway.  But she insisted on using the forward head.  She was down there for a long time, came back looking like a wreck and was sick for the rest of the day.  And she had to change her clothes before coming back on deck.  In a calm sea or at anchor there isn't any problem.  But when underway use the master or midship head.  That's true on any boat, not just Connies.

I checked out the TV lift site you mentioned and it looks like you got a very good price on the lift mechanism.  However, you may find that the cabinet is rather expensive.  It has to be rather thin but is also relatively tall. It looks like something you might have in a hallway to store miscellaneos items in.  It would be thin to minimize hall blockage but at least desk height for convenience in placing items on it.  Length could be anything.  It wouldn't work very well if free standing and would have to be bolted to the bulkhead for strength.  You need something with a finish close to that of the boat and you need the interior free of encumberances to accommodate the lift mechanism.  This sounds a lot like a custom cabinet and they can be fairly expensive.  Even if you found a standard cabinet it would probably be at least $500 before modification.  A custom job could be several thousand.  We've paid over $500 just to have a small cabinet refinished.  Most of the TV lift units in the site you mentioned cost several thousand dollars and I suspect by the time you are finished you may pay as much or more for your custom unit.  But all you can do is to try to find a reasonably priced cabinet.

I agree about bridge enclosures.  I too like the open feel and excellent visibility.  In a storm, enclosures are a disaster because you can't see through them.  I would much rather put on a slicker and operate from an open fly bridge than try to operate from an enclosed bridge. The main advantage of an enclosed flybridge is that it keeps you warm in cold weather.  But most of us stop boating anyway when the weather gets that cold. 

BTW, the lower station is pretty much useless in a storm because the windshield wipers just can't keep up with the spray.  Another problem is that even if the wipers worked, the windshield is much too far from the helm so you wind up trying to look at the world through a keyhole.  The lower helm has an impressive appearance but is rather useless as a working navigation station.  The visibilty, even in clear weather, is far too restricted.

Bridge carpets are strictly a matter of personal preference. I've thought about getting them a few times and once even priced them.  If I could keep the carpets dry I might get them but carpets that get wet are dirt and mildew collectors.  Keeping them clean would just be another PITA chore. The footing on the present bridge seems fine so I just don't see what the advantage would be. 

Pete37



Edited by Pete37 on September 17 2007 at 00:59


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Posted: September 18 2007 at 11:49 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi All,

Just testing to see if I can upload a picture.  This upload wasn't done using the method described by Boat US.

Don't have a final answer but I'm working on it.

Pete37



Edited by Pete37 on September 20 2007 at 19:32


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Posted: September 18 2007 at 12:48 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

To All,

Another attempt to upload a picture.  This time successful.

This method works and you can upload as many pictures as you want.  But they are still limited to 100K.

Pete37



Edited by Pete37 on September 20 2007 at 13:21


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Posted: September 20 2007 at 19:29 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

To All:

Subject:  Flying Bridge Lounge Seats

I know from the posts that some of you are looking for the L shaped lounge seats used on the FB that were original equipment on Connies.  Unfortunately these were extra cost options which not all owners bought.  And some misguided owners threw them out.

I was looking through the Overton's catalog and found some L shaped lounge seats that are about the same size as those on a Connie.  And the prices are very reasonable.  The furniture shown in the Overton's catalog was made by "Toonmate" and is intended for pontoon boats.  It's made in three grades; Deluxe, Premium and Premier.  

For those of you that don't have FB furniture they might be an acceptable alternative to the original Connie seats.  I can't testify on the basis of the advertising photos alone how good the furniture is. You will have to find that out yourself.  Do a web search for "Pontoon Boat, Furniture" and you'll get a lot of hits.  Toonmate is not the only manufacturer of pontoon boat furniture.

Pontoon boat decks are flat while the Connie FB deck is cambered so you will have to make some filler blocks.  But the original Connie furniture used filler blocks too.

Pete37

 



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Posted: September 22 2007 at 00:38 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi All,

Continued testing on picture upload.  I think this is the final test.

This is a picture of the couch in my lower salon.  It's the original couch installed when the boat was built but has very little wear.  It opens into a bed for two although we've never used it for that. 

I think the photo resolution is pretty good.  I just put up a new picture above the couch and as you can see I'm having a lot of trouble with reflections from the glass.  I've seen the same problem with glass covered pictures on other Connies.  The solution is probably to put a picture lamp over the picture.

But the main item is that I seem to have a way to upload pictures.  Do you think the picture is adequate?

Pete37



Edited by Pete37 on September 23 2007 at 12:39


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Posted: September 22 2007 at 11:36 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Tony & Vicki,

By now I guess your carpet is in.  Hope it went in easily.

On the subject of toilets, the tile shouldn't be much of a problem.  Most toilets are held down by three 1/4" screws which are screwed into the plywood floor of the head.  There is no plumbing under the head.  Just place your toilet where you want it and mark the locations of the three holes with a marking pen.  Then remove the tiles which are affected and drill holes through them with a ceramic drill.    Make the holes about 3/8" to provide a little clearance. Replace and glue down the removed tiles.  Now place the toilet on the floor and align the holes in it's base with the holes in the tiles.  Insert your hold down screws and fasten the toilet to the floor.  Your toilet is now installed.

The second part of the process is to hook up your plumbing and electricity to the head.  If you are replacing an existing head the waste line should already be there.  Just hook it up.  If you are installing a fresh water head and the old head is raw water you will have to install a pickup pipe and T it into the cold water supply to the sink. If you're handy do it yourself.  If not the local yard mechanic can do it.  The electric hookup is quite simple and amply described in the literature supplied with the toilet.  The whole process is a one to two day (max) job.  On normal installations none of the pipes go under the floor.

I forgot that your boat doesn't have the refrigerator cabinet facing the lower salon.  So mounting a TV to the back of the refrigerator cabinet is out.  With your layout I don't know where you would place the TV for the lower salon.  It's a shame because the lower salon is probably the most underutilized room in the boat.

I checked out the TV stand site you mentioned and see how your setup for the TV in the upper salon would work.  If you want a 40" TV the starboard wall is probably the only place you could put it.  Finding a very narrow cabinet is going to be difficult because narrow cabinets aren't stable when free standing.  They have to be fastened to something to be stable.  Kitchen cabinets might be a possibility because they are often fastened to a wall and kitchen cabinet people are used to custom installations.  They usually also have a variety of finishes and door styles.  However, the onyx top may be a problem.

BTW, I just received an email from a friend who has made TV cabinets similar to the one you want.  He has two cabinet makers with time available this winter who can make your cabinet,  They can make any size or shape out of any wood you want.  This of course would be custom work and would be more expensive than a modified cabinet from a furniture outlet.  But it would be fine work that you could be proud of.  If you are interested let me know.

Has your date with the yard for hauling firmed up?  I'm still hoping we can find a date for a rendezvous acceptable to all.

Pete37 



Edited by Pete37 on September 24 2007 at 01:20


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Furman1
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Posted: September 22 2007 at 14:40 | IP Logged Quote Furman1

Upper salon side windows leaking. I had a leak in the port and starboard windows on the uppper salon.  I think I've found the source.  The slanted side panels (outside) create a pocket in the forward part of the windows. I didn't see how water trapped there could get into the boat. I then noticed that there are 2 or 3 mounting screws at the base of these panels and if water is trapped there in could seep into the boat through these screws. I just installed new carpet in the uppper salon and before I did I believe I found the leak.  I cleaned dirt and mildew out this pocket and poured a product called "git rot" into this pocket and after three very heavy rains... no leaks!!! I damed up the area so the git rot could seep into all of the cracks. BTW if you drill a couple of small holes in the bottom of these decorative panels you will be amazed at the amount of water that is trapped inside...or at least I did.

 



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Posted: September 23 2007 at 12:44 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Furman,

That's an interesting and important discovery.  I know the slanted panels you speak of but don't understand exactly where the puddle is or why it doesn't drain out through the window box.  How much do you have to remove to see where the water pools?

Pete37



Edited by Pete37 on September 23 2007 at 13:14


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Furman1
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Posted: September 23 2007 at 15:46 | IP Logged Quote Furman1

You just have to look through the window on the back side of the panels.  Connie's are bow heavy and the boat will be tilted forward under normal loading and more so if the rear tanks are light.  This will cause the water to pool in the back side of the panel and the side of the boat.  If the boat is older and the caulking is dryed out this will allow water to seep into the inside of the fiberglass skin through the lower panel attachment screws.  I would be willing to bet that the plywood core of the decorative panel is rotten and if a small hole was drilled into the bottom side of the panel water would come out. In fact I drilled 2 each  1/4 inch holes in the bottom of my panels and water driped out for weeks.



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Pete37
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Posted: September 27 2007 at 12:03 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi All,

Subject: Handy New Alarm Clocks

I found a new gimmick which is cheap and handy for the boat.  We have electric alarm clocks in the staterooms that run off AC.  Every time we leave the slip the power goes off and we have to manually reset them.  There is a new type of clock now being manufactured which has a small radio receiver tuned to the national time standard radio station.  A small computer chip attached to the receiver decodes the national time standard signals and sets the time on the clock.

Now when we leave the dock and come back the clocks are automatically reset.  They are also reset if you turn on the generator.  And the time is good to one second.  They also take care of daylight savings time changes.  Basically, you can just plug them in and forget about them for five years at which time the 2 AAA batteries used for the computer chip will need to be replaced.  The only setup required is to set the time zone switch for eastern, central, mountain, Pacific, etc. time zone. 

In the event that the national time standard station goes out, the clock continues to function as an ordinary crystal controlled, battery powered clock until the national time standard station comes back on.  On the alarm clocks (which use an led display) the display goes out when the AC power goes off but comes back on with the correct time when power is restored. 

You can get them as wall clocks, alarm clocks, etc. but the number of styles is limited at present.  I haven't seen them at retail stores yet but they should be available there very soon.  Of course you can get battery run wall clocks that keep good time regardless of whether you are at the dock or not.  But they don't take care of daylight savings time and don't have enough power to run an alarm or led display.   The cost is only slightly more than an ordinary clock.  I bought mine from a mail order outfit for about $15.

LCD wall clocks with indoor and outdoor temperature displays and the same radio control feature are also available. I found some of these at Sam's Club.  And no wires are required between the temperature sensors and the display. Very handy for monitoring how well your boat's air conditioning and heating systems are working.  Cost was about $25. 

Another handy trick is to place an old AC electric clock (the type with the electric motor) alongside a battery powered crystal controlled clock.  Now if the power goes out on your boat the difference in time will tell you how long the power was out and whether the food in your refrigerator is still safe to eat.

These clocks are minor but handy improvements for your boat.

Pete37



Edited by Pete37 on September 27 2007 at 12:10


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Fantasy
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Posted: September 27 2007 at 12:42 | IP Logged Quote Fantasy

Interesting discovery, Pete.  I've been using a plug-in LED alarm clock that has a battery backup, however, the square sine waves that my inverter puts out causes problems (this is true with most 120v electronics).  I wonder if the radio reset would overcome that issue.

Also, a few years ago I had a turbo leak that caused my engine room temperature to get hot enough to set off the halon.  If I had not heard the cannister pop, I never would have known about the problem until a lot of damage was done (that's one of many advantages of using the lower station).  I've since installed a wireless indoor-outdoor thermometer with the "outdoor" sensor in the engine room.  The time/temperature display sits on the helm in front of the original LED clock.  Hopefully I'll have some warning if a clamp or another part of the exhaust system fails and the ambient temperature starts rising.

John



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Posted: September 27 2007 at 21:32 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi John,

Don't know whether the clock would work on inverter juice or not.  I guess the only way to find out is to try it.  However, I think that once the clock was back on sine wave juice it would work properly.  The receiver and decoder work on DC from the batteries and/or some sort of rectifier power supply in the clock .  I don't think the power supply would care whether the AC was square wave or sine wave.  The display may not care either provided there isn't too much noise from your inverter.  But again, the only way to find out is to try it. 

The LCD clock with auxiliary indoor and outdoor thermometers was designed for household use.  I think the outdoor thermometer would work fine on a boat as long as was protected from salt water.  But I'm not sure whether ithe indoor thermometer would survive the rigors of the engine room.

My boat has a little yellow box under the lower instrument console which is called a Fireboy Engine Shutdown/Overrride System.  It's purpose is to shut the engines down automatically in case of discharge of the halon canister.  It is also supposed to set of an alarm to warn the operator.  There are alarm and display units at both the lower and flying bridge consoles.

However, it's nearly 21 years old and I'm not sure that it works.  Physically it looks fine and seems to be well protected so it may very well be functional.  They give instructions on how to test it (without setting fire to your engine room) so I guess I'll have to get busy and check it out.  But I'm a little nervous about setting off the halon accidentally.  In reading the manual I find it's a fairly complicated little dude.

I too had engine problems which caused the engine room to get hot when a leak developed in one of the risers.  It smoked the engine room thoroughly and caused about $22,000 of damage to the engines.  But the halon system didn't go off.

Pete37



Edited by Pete37 on September 27 2007 at 21:38


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Posted: September 28 2007 at 08:10 | IP Logged Quote Fantasy

The indoor/outdoor thermometer probably won't last forever but it's pretty cheap insurance.  I installed mine in 2004 and I've logged over 800 engine hours since then.  I watch it as closely as the other panel gauges.  The remote sensor/transmitter is positioned high on the aft engine room bulkhead where heat and smoke would collect first.

I'm leary of the halon alarm system, especially the shutdown feature.  Mine did not shut down the engines and I don't recall hearing the alarm (although it sounds when tested).  Incidentally, the old halon cannisters can't be refilled if they have been discharged and the replacement chemical, FE 241, is less effective.  As a result, a larger cannister is required which means you need to redesign the mounting system.  The cannister cost me about $750 in 2004.

John



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Posted: September 28 2007 at 11:41 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi John,

Yes, nothing's perfect.  But the principle of the Fireboy system is pretty simple.  It has a pressure monitor on the halon cannister and if the pressure goes to zero it shuts down the engines.  The shutdown is totally independent of the dashboard sensors and alarms.  It works even if the alarms don't work.  But of course if it isn't hooked up correctly the shutdown command issued by the Fireboy may not be transmitted to the engine controls and you won't get shutdown.  That's what I'm going to try to check today. 

I spent about two hours reading the instruction manuals last night.  They are rather confusing and poorly written.  But the principles of the system are solid.  What's not so solid is that I'm not sure that CC set the system up correctly.  Their circuit diagrams don't match the Fireboy circuit diagrams.  There is no indication of any relays on the CC circuit diagrams.  I suspect that they hooked up the system to provide warning of cannister discharge but didn't wire in the automatic engine shutdown relays.  If the relays are hooked up, wires should be attached to terminals #9-16 of the Fireboy and if they are the wires should attach to terminals #2 (Fuel shutdown solenoid) on the port and starboard engine terminal blocks and to a fuel shutdown solenoid on the generator.  There are also emergency air shutdown solenoids on both main engines which may have been used to shut the engines down.  I'll check that when I go to the boat today.

The $750 cost for the FE241 cannister is sort of a bombshell but there isn't much we can do about it and it doesn't make much difference how you sense the overheat.  Once you discharge the cannister, $750 has gone up in smoke but that's much better than not having any fire extinguisher.  Of course you don't want any false alarms dumping your cannister.

The Fireboy system is there so I'm going to check it out to see if it works.  If it works, the next step will be to check the cannister.  BTW Xintex still makes the Fireboy but parts for the old ES-1002-01 systems we have on the boat are no longer available.  A new system will cost you about $318 list.  Boat US sells them for less than $250.  That's a lot but not so much when you consider the cannister is $750.  It's only a 33% increase.

The biggest impact is the installation costs.  If you have the yard do it for you the cost could be as high as $300-$500 and frankly I wouldn't trust many of the yard techs.  They may be good techs but they just don't know the CC wiring.  However, since you already have the old system, installing a new one should mainly be a matter of swapping the wires from the old unit to the new one. 

I'm going to see if I can get a copy of the circuit diagram if the new ES-3000-01 to see if it is basically the same as the old systems we have in our boats.  The circuit diagram of the old relay box is so simple that I could probably build one over the weekend for less than $50 in parts.  The only expensive part is the relay. The dash displays would be more complicated because they have to mechanically fit the dash.  But for $250 I'm probably too lazy to do that.

If the old halogen cannister  is OK, I'm going to check out/fix the present Fireboy system.  If I can't fix it I may buy a new one.  Hope I don't have to replace the halogen cannister too.

Monitoring, the engine room temp with a thermometer is OK but if you happen to be distracted at the time the cannister blows the results can be a disaster.  In the case of my engine problems it was only a couple of seconds from the time the riser blew until the smoke shut the engines down.  I don't think that either a Fireboy system or a temp gauge would have reacted quickly enough to prevent the damage.  While there was prodigious smoke,  I have no evidence that the engine room temperatures got very high.

Pete37

 



Edited by Pete37 on September 28 2007 at 13:21


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Banjoman
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Posted: September 28 2007 at 12:57 | IP Logged Quote Banjoman

Hi folks - Anyone out there have diagrams of the electrical wiring on the engines?  Specifically, 6V92TA Covington's.  Covington said that CC did the wiring and they had nothing to do with it.  My blueprints have everything electrical but that.   Also, anyone have a schematic of the fuel line system?  I know, I know....I can draw one myself.  I know that.  But it will be a helluva' lot easier if someone has already done it for me !     I'd be willing to pay for a copy.  Someone also mentioned the amount of fuel line required to replace all lines on the 500, is there a definitive (within reason) answer on that one?

And finally, I'm going to install mechanical gauges on each engine, such as; boost, air-box, fuel pressure, oil pressure and water temp (and I may add the trannys later).  Has anyone done this?  Got a good source for the gauges and panels?  Any pratfalls I need to know about?

I'm doing all this because I'm still chasing a loss-of-rpm situation and driving me nuts.  I've changed filters, had the bottom professionally cleaned, etc. And I'm still only making about 2000 rpms full load!  I believe that the problems is a fuel restriction of some sort.  Maybe fuel lines (but I doubt it)?  Maybe fuel pump (a real possibility)?  But the installation of gauges (which should have been installed from day-one by CC) will forever allow me to monitor these types of issues.  I'm also going to install a couple of pyrometers in the exhaust. 

If you chosse to reply (and I hope some of you do).  Here is a list of just some of the things done within the last three seasons; all injectors replaced on port engine, all injectors (p&s) tested twice, blowers pulled and ac's professionally cleaned and tested, new AirSeps, re-built turbo on port engine (four seasons ago), props were computer scanned and tuned a couple of season ago .....and on ....and ....on....and.....on

I've been chasing smoke, soot and general poor performance for four seasons.  Time to work on things is the problem as well.  Hopefully, gauges will help finally diagnose the latest issue of loss of rpm.

Prior to buying this boat, I had a 381 with 454's in her.  They NEVER let me down, but I was convinced by a couple of folks that diesels are/were the way to go.  Well, maybe for some folks who have had better luck than me!  Right now, I'd trade for my old boat back.  (well...not really.  I guess I'm just venting)



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Monopoly1954
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Posts: 107
Posted: September 28 2007 at 13:12 | IP Logged Quote Monopoly1954

Hi Captain Shover,

I will look for the blueprints on Monday. I have all of the blueprints from Chriscraft that came with the boat.

The little i know about your RPM problem suggests you might have over looked a couple of simple tests that are cost effective.

I do not think you know if it props or engine. The cheap way to tell is do a no load test. Put a person in the engine compartment with a RPM sensor. This will bypass all your gauges. I think the 6V92 should do about 2550 RPMs with no load. If they both rev up you know it is something else. It could be to much pitch in the props, could be worn tranny bearings causing excess drag or something a more knowledgeable  tech could tell you.

Hope this is some help. Also when you do this test compare the RPM results with your gauges...should be interesting

I'll get back to you next week on the blue prints


Corey Finkelstein


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MONOPOLY
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Furman1
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Posted: September 28 2007 at 13:41 | IP Logged Quote Furman1

Banjoman, It takes approx 360 total lf of fuel lines for the replacement of the engines and generator lines  1/2 in and 3/8 in I think those are the sizes

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Pete37
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Posted: September 28 2007 at 13:53 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Emory,

I have a copy of the Johnson & Towers engine wiring diagram.  The wiring was actually done by CC so it should be very similar to the Covington diagram.  It is very simple and is on a single 8" x 11" sheet.  I have the address on your documentation.  If that's still the same I'll mail it to you (no charge).

A check of your tachs is in order as Corey says.  I have an optical tach that I use for calibrating my boat tachs.  I just start the engines and set them 2000 rpm (in neutral).  Then I go down to the engine room and check the actual rpms off the flywheel.  It's quite easy and takes only a couple of minutes.  However my experience has been that the tachs never seem to be much more than 20 rpms off.  That wouldn't explain a 300 rpm difference (unless someone has screwed around with them). 

That will eliminate the tachs as a source of error but it doesn't say that your engines are putting out the full hp.  Revving them up to 2550 rpm at no load won't tell you anything either.  You have apparently checked your prop pitch and transmission ratio. There probably isn't anything wrong there but you might as well eliminate them as a problem.  What were your prop and transmission specs. I can check them out on the Diesel forum site. 

At 2000 rpm what speed are you achieving?  If the tachs are about right (and they probably are) you should be going at 18.4 knots in 12 feet of water with about 1/2 fuel load.  If you aren't there is something wrong with you hull, transmission ratio, or prop pitch.  Since you've checked to see that your hull is clean and all Connies have about the same hull design I think we can assume that nothing is wrong with the hull.  That leaves transmission ratio and prop pitch as possible problems.  If the boat does reach 18.4 knots at 2000 rpm then there's nothing wrong with the hull, transmission ratios or props.  The problem lies in the engines. 

I think the thing to do is to make sure your hull, props and transmission are working correctly by comparing your speed with the known speeds a similar Connie should achieve at a given rpm.  If you are achieving normal speed at similar rpms then the problem is in the engines.  And if it is in the engines you probably need to call in a mechanic.  Apparently, based on your comments in the fourth paragraph, you already have without much success.

The problem with mechanical gauges is that it's such a PETA to route the lines from the engines to the lower console and then to the flying bridge.  Electrical gauges, while they may have small errors can usually be calibrated and once calibrated are quite stable.  BTW, CC installed VDO oil pressure, transmission pressure and engine temperature gauges on my boat and they all seem to work pretty well.  What brand of gauges were installed on your boat?  I hope it wasn't that Teleflex crap they installed on some early Connies.  If it was I would change them all out immediately but I'm not sure that mechanical gauges are necessary.

You seem to be harping on smoke and soot.  All old 6V92s smoke a lot and soot up the transom.  I've cleaned my transom twice this season.  But your comments seem to indicate a severe problem.  I assume your mechanic checked the compression so that isn't the problem.

BTW, not all Connies make 2300 rpm under load.  Most do only about 2200 rpm and some as little as 2150 rpm.  If you want to reach higher rpm just back off on your pitch.  But that won't necessarily make the boat go any faster.  It may in fact go slower.

Check you tachs and let's proceed from there.

Pete37



Edited by Pete37 on September 28 2007 at 14:59


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Banjoman
"First Mate"




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Posted: September 28 2007 at 14:41 | IP Logged Quote Banjoman

Thanks for the responses.  OK - the props were computer scanned by Murphy's Propeller in Norfolk a couple of years ago and at that time I asked the they take an 1" of pitch out to unload the engines a little.  I can deal with a little less speed if it gives me a little longevity on the engines.  2nd - I have a photo-tach (I use it in my business fairly often).  The rpms I previously quoted are from that tach.  The port rpm was about 1850 and the starboard was 2000.  I have Aetna digitals at both, the upper and lower stations.

I agree that this is something that is affecting both engines.  However, I've learned with diesels (or any engines for that matter) that you can NEVER assume that because something is "going south" on one engine, that the same mechanical device isn't "going south" on the other engine.  That's why I want to install mechanical gauges.  3rd - I am not routing the gauges to the helm stations, rather they will be installed on the engines on the floor support located just inboard of each engine. 

I'm sure that after I've exhausted all avenues (and myself as well) that it will be something simple.  At which point, I'll try to located a source for C4 and just get it over with .

Getting ready to go over to Trawler Fest tomorrow morning.  I've been to one and the wife has never been.  I may be making a huge mistake.



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Pete37
"Commander"




Joined: November 12 2006
Posts: 2317
Posted: September 28 2007 at 15:20 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Emory,

OK, your tachs seem to be right and you've already taken 1" off the pitch.  What pitch and diameter did you wind up with and what is your transmission ratio?   Wow, a difference of 150 rpm between port and starboard engines definitely indicates an engine problem.  Particularly if both are low.  Sounds to me like both engines are "going south" but at a slightly different rate.  How many hours do you have on them?  Anything over 2000 is living on borrowed time with a highly supercharged 6V92.

I agree, mechanical gauges in the engine room to check the electrical gauges are a good idea.  Don't think they need to be permanently installed though.  BTW if you find a source for C4 let me know.  I may have a use for some of it too. 

Beware trawler salesmen bearing gifts,

Pete37



Edited by Pete37 on September 28 2007 at 21:00


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Fantasy
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Posts: 324
Posted: September 28 2007 at 16:25 | IP Logged Quote Fantasy

Emory, before you spend the money on mechanical gauges, make sure you can still remove the pipe plugs on the engine components.  I wanted to put an additional water temp gauge in the engine room but gave up after I broke a wrench.  Drilling and tapping on these engines is a beast of a job.

John



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Pete37
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Posted: September 28 2007 at 20:44 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Emory & John,

When you add mechanical gauges in parallel with electrical gauges you normally put a pipe tee into the engine and put each gauge on one end of the tee.  This works fine for pressure gauges but for temperature gauges you would expect some drop in temperature for both gauges. 

For temperature gauges, I usually just calibrate them by removing them from the boat, putting them in a pot of hot water and raising the temperature of the water slowly while taking readings from the gauges and a thermometer simultaneously.  Of course using a mechanical temperature gauge works too.  It just costs more.

Mechanical gauges are usually used as temporary calibration devices but you can leave them in permanently if you wish.  Just expect some error in the temperature gauges.  Even if you successfully drill and tap a second hole for a mechanical temperature gauge there is no guarantee it will agree with the electrical and there is a certain probability that it will throw both gauges off.

Pete37



Edited by Pete37 on September 28 2007 at 21:09


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Fantasy
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Posted: September 29 2007 at 08:10 | IP Logged Quote Fantasy

Temperature gauges need a good flow of water over the sender.  A pipe tee won't work.  If all you want to do is calibrate your electrical gauges, use a handheld infrared device.

The drill and tap I was referring to would be the result of cracking an existing pipe plug, which is where you need to install the senders.  These plugs are usually iron in iron and become "welded" after 20+ years.  Even worse would be cracking the manifold or other part you are removing the plug from.

The mechanical oil pressure gauge is easy, Emory.  I have mine mounted exactly where you have in mind.  Sorry I can't easily add the temp gauge too.

John



Edited by Fantasy on September 29 2007 at 13:48


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Pete37
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Posted: September 29 2007 at 11:09 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Emory & John,

Yes, temperature senders need a good flow of water to work correctly.  And they won't get that flow in a pipe tee.  That's why I said you should expect some drop in temperature if you put two temperature gauges on a tee. So we all seem to be in agreement that mounting temperature sensors on a tee is not satisfactory.

If you mount the mechanical and electrical sensors at different locations you may or may not get equal readings depending on what the water flow at those locations is.  The water temperature is not the same at all locations in the water system.  Variations of 5 and in some cases even 10 degrees can be expected.

Pressure gauges work fine on a tee as all of us seem to agree.

Handheld, infrared devices are good diagnostic tools but you can't be sure that the surface temperature of the block, even at the exact surface location of the sensor is the same as the temperature of the water flowing in a passage 1" below the surface.  They may be similar but they aren't exact.

Doing an infrared scan of the engine's surface to look for unexpected hot spots is a useful exercise.

But we are getting off the subject.  Emory has engine problems but they aren't overheating problems of the type that are going to be detected by the engine water temperature gauge.  Good electrical gauges give readings accurate to 5 degrees (provided they are wired correctly).  They can be calibrated to 2 degrees, have a repeatibility of about 2 degrees and can be read to an accuracy of 1 degree.  An error of 2 degrees or even 5 degrees is not going to make any significant difference in engine performance.  Expecting to solve the engine problems through slightly more accurate temperature gauges is wishfull thinking.  My engines work exactly the same at 180 degrees as they do at 190 degrees.

At a typical engine operating temperature of 180 degrees, the temperature sensors have a resistance of 37 ohms.  A one ohm increase in wiring resistance drops the apparent temperature by about 2 degrees and a one ohm decrease increases the apparent temperature by 2 degrees.  Changes in battery voltage have no effect on the gauge reading because the gauges are zener diode regulated.  There are manufacturing variations in the gauges which may be as high as 5 degrees.  These should be calibrated out or trimmed out with resistors.

The VDO gauges on my boat are well designed and reliable intruments which when properly calibrated give nearly the same accuracy and repeatibility as mechanical gauges.  I can not testify to the accuracy of Teleflex gauges. 

There is a possibility that the thermostats on Emory's engines have gone bad but all the mechanics I have talked to say that it is very unlikely.  I assume that Emory's engine mechanic has investigated that subject.  Emory hasn't said anything about the engine temperatures at max rpm but I would think his mechanic would have spotted that if it was abnormal.

Pete37

 



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Pete37
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Posted: September 30 2007 at 11:26 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Emory,

After looking at you last post it appears that your port engine is loading down the starboard and that may account for the 200 to 300 rpm loss of max rpm on the starboard engine.  Prior to your last post I didn't know that the port engine was only making 1850 rpm.  If you find and fix the port engine problem you will probably find that the starboard engine is working properly.

Apparently, based on the repairs you have already done on the port engine, you already know, or at least suspect that it is the culprit.  I doubt the problem is fuel lines or fuel pumps but that's still a possibility until checked.  The reason I doubt it is that the Detroit fuel system pumps ten times the fuel necessary to supply the injectors.  About 90% is used to cool the injectors.  The pump would really have to be in bad shape to starve the injectors.  You could buy a new pump (expensive) or swap the port and starboard pumps (less expensive) to check the pump performance.

As to fuel hoses, I've never heard of anyone having them so badly degraded as to cause engine problems.  Furman had problems with weeping from his fuel lines which stank the boat up but I don't think it affected the performance of his engines.  However, check the hose line run to the port engine to make sure that someone has not inadvertently clamped down on or kinked the fuel lines.  The hose clamps on most of the fuel lines are made of aluminum and rubber and in many cases the aluminum has corroded out leaving the hoses improperly supported.  The hose clamps are called "cushion clamps" and are available in various sizes on page 462 of the current West Marine catalog.

In the Detroit Diesel troubleshooting charts they list gear train timing, high return fuel temperature and blower bypass valve piston stuck open as possible causes for poor performance in addition to a whole bunch of the more obvious causes.  Interestingly they also list blower bypass valve piston stuck open as a cause for large amounts of black smoke.  I'm not quite sure why high return fuel temperature causes poor performance but I did find my fuel coolers somewhat plugged up when I was trying to track down an overheat problem.  They are easy to remove and clean.  I don't have a clue as to how to check the gear train timing but your mechanic probably does and has also probably checked it out already. 

Your constant complaints about excessive black smoke and poor performance are the strongest clues to your problem.  Black smoke indicates incomplete combustion which in turn leads to a drop in horsepower.  So the two effects are inherently tied together.  And black smoke usually, though not always, means a lack of air.   When you get proper combustion most of your black smoke will probably go away and your engine will also reach full rpm.

High exhaust back pressure can cause insufficient air which in turn causes black smoke and poor performance so checking the exhaust system may be in order.  A piece of the muffler could have rusted out and fallen down partially blocking the exhaust.  The Detroit manual indicates high exhaust back pressure should be checked at the exhaust manifold with a manomter.  But I suspect that this is a rare test that few mechanics perform.

The Detroit manual also mentions clogged cylinder liner ports as a cause for poor air flow.  Don't know how you check them.

Unfortunately, tracking down performance problems is a painful and expensive process.  In many cases you have probably already checked out these possible problems so just ignore my comments.  But perhaps I may strike on some source of failure that you have overlooked.

BTW are you still interested in that engine wiring diagram?

Good luck in tracking down your engine problems,

Pete37



Edited by Pete37 on September 30 2007 at 12:18


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Banjoman
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Posted: October 01 2007 at 09:15 | IP Logged Quote Banjoman

Pete,

Yes, I am very interested in obtaining a copy of the wiring on the engines.  I doubt that there was a difference between the J&T and Covingtons.  I will keep everyone posted on what we find as we begin the trouble-shooting process.  This has been very frustrating.  I appreciate any and all comments.  I hope that we can get more folks to contribute on this forum as time moves along.  This can become a great exchange of information for all of us.  I've made many many upgrades to my vessel and am open for any questions.  And yes, I actually replaced my refrigerator!  Ha!  NEVER AGAIN..............



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