Posted: October 27 2009 at 13:18 | IP Logged

Hi Emory and Allen,

Emory:

After asking the question "Is Extended Life antifreeze safe?" I started some checks on the internet and may have found the answer.  The answer is No! or Maybe!. 

Basically the Extended Life stuff isn't completely compatible with the old stuff.  So you have to drain all the regular stuff out of the system, refill the system with water, run the engine for a while, drain the water and then refill with the Extended Life antifreeze.  The new stuff also has a tendency to make the seals leak.  The severity of that problem depends on the condition of your seals and I have no idea what the condition of my seals are in.  I only know that they don't leak now.

The Extended Life antifreeze also isn't any more resistant to collecting debris from the cooling system than the old stuff was.  Therefore, replacing the antifreeze every two years, does keep the cooling system cleaner and this becomes more important as the engine ages.

In summary, if you thoroughly flush out all the old antifreeze, the Extended Life antifreeze should work but you may find some new leaks in the system.  I think I'll wait a couple years before switching.

Emory and Allen:

I like Emory's latest suggestion.  Cutting the old tank out and replacing with a somewhat smaller plastic tank makes sense.  It probably eliminates removing that wall (which seems to be the stumbling block) but still provides adequate water supply. 

If you could get a 100 gallon tank into the space the old tank was in you would have 200 gallons which is more than adequate (unless you're planning Trans-Atlantic crossings).  If you can get more than a 100 gallon tank in that's just frosting on the cake.  And it's a solution that will last.  You won't be going back in a few years to fix new leaks.

Pete37

Posted: October 27 2009 at 13:39 | IP Logged

Pete - I only use Detriot Diesel coolant and oil.  I know, I know, it ain't necessary.  But I just sleep better knowing that their product (in name only) is in their their product!  My DD dealer gives me a "lil' discount", so I don't go shopping around too much for these particular items.

Well, once again another year has passed by and I managed to get a mechanic to at least "look at" my port engine.  I am beginning to think that I've been on, yet another, goose chase.  As I was installing new "duckbill" valves in my vacuflush pump, I looked at my outboard side of the starboard engine and discovered quite a bit of oil leaking (I hope) from the valve cover, but I'm not sure yet.  The oil appears to be leaking down the head and has covered the outboard stringer fairly well.  I also removed the AirSep filter and believe that the turbo oil seal may be bad.  But not sure about that either.  Their just seems to be too much oil residue in there.  There's just no end to the fun of these Detroits!

Posted: October 27 2009 at 14:10 | IP Logged

Hi All, 

The more I think about it, the more I like Emory's suggestion.  If my main water tank ever goes bad (Heaven Forbid!)  I may replace it with a smaller plastic tank.  Then I'll install another tank in the bilge compartment forward of the generator compartment. 

There's not much in that compartment now and if I placed the tank on the starboard side it's weight (when full) would counterbalance the generator's weight and eliminate that annoying list to port that most Connies have. One hundred gallons would weigh about 800 lbs. which would counterbalance the generator nicely.

Due to the small size of the hatch I might have to use several tanks joined by a pipe manifold but getting 80 to 100 gallons in should be no problem.  I think (in order to keep it simple) I would forego a deck fill pipe and simply fill the tanks by running a garden hose through the galley window when necessary.

Well, I've got to quit typing and go down and give the boat a bath.

Pete37

Posted: October 27 2009 at 15:44 | IP Logged

Hi All-

78' Roamer (aluminum) at the FLL boat show.  Reduced to $299,000.  Looks great!

Mark

Posted: October 27 2009 at 18:43 | IP Logged

Hi Furman,

You've been living in the land of the warm too long.  Block heaters won't even begin to keep the engine room warm in Maryland in February.  However, I do have two permanently installed 1500 watt heaters in the bilge which come on automatically at 45 degrees. 

These do a pretty good job but if someone kicks my power plug out my engines will freeze up in two days.  One day if it's extremely cold.  And while I keep a pretty good check on the boat I can't get down there every day.  So I keep my engines filled with antifreeze mixed for -8 F.  I've never seen it that cold in MD but you've got to allow for some error in mixing the antifreeze.

Even at only 45 degrees it costs a lot to keep the engine room warm. 3000 watts @ 0.25 per kwh is $0.75 per hour, $18 per day or $540 per month.  It actually cost over $300 in February (the worst month) last year.  I've been looking for a thermostat that will come on at a lower temperature.

Pete37 

Posted: October 27 2009 at 18:54 | IP Logged

Pete,

If you tee off a valve and water line to your contemplated new tank on the suction side you won't need to use a garden hose or install a fill pipe.  I have this set up now with the fill valve located under the galley sink.  I just turn off the pump and turn the valve on, which fills my water tank.  I keep my boat hooked to dockside water with a garden hose "flip" valve at the connection at the deck power/water hookups.

Furman,

I like your thinking but up here our cold spells often last for weeks at a time and power outages are not uncommon.  I'm now paying $0.20 kwh and my block heaters would probably break the bank.  We're heading toward your neck of the woods on Thurs. which is a much better alternative.  Maybe we'll see you at SYC.

John

Posted: October 27 2009 at 19:05 | IP Logged

Never any consistency with CC during the mid-80's.  My 381 Catalina had a valve in the engine room mounted on the aft bulkhead that would allow me fill the water tank from the city connection without having to put a hose in the filler.  I would LOVE to have that on my Connie.  I know, I know, I could install one but I'll just add that to my list.

Posted: October 27 2009 at 20:25 | IP Logged

Hi All,

Last winter in Baltimore area we were living aboard our Connie and I had a oil radiator type heater between the engines and another in the forward bilge (under the galley), both set on low (750 watts).  I set the thermostats to maintain 50-55* (monitored by digital thermometers).  The one between the mains never dropped below 47* when the temps were in single digits using only the low setting.  The forward one (alos on the 750 watt setting) ran about 15% of the time to maintain 55*  We had the outside air vents covered with plastic.  Admiditedly, we also had cabin heat on as well, but the insulation under the deck is pretty remarkable in isolating the bilge from the living area.

My point is that it should never take anything like 3000 watts of heat to maintain a reasonable engine room/bilge temperature if the boat is in the water. If on the hard, it will take somewhat more as you do not get the moderating effect of the water. 

Jim

Posted: October 27 2009 at 21:24 | IP Logged

Hi Jim,

You're right Jim.  It shouldn't take a continuous 3000 watts to heat a Connie in MD in February and it didn't.  My actual bill was $300 while the bill for continuous 24/7 3000 watt heat would have been $540.  That's because sometimes the temp got above 45 F.  But based on my electric bill the average wattage was (300/540)*3000=1670 watts.  Or to say it another way the heaters were on 300/540 = 0.56 or 56% of the time.

But average doesn't cut it.  Your heaters have to keep the engine room above 32 F on the coldest night of the year which is normally something like 10 F but 0 F is possible.  And at times like that 3000 watts probably won't keep the temp up to 45 F.  Did the temps go below 32 F?  I don't know.  All I can say is that I didn't freeze anything up because the engines were protected with antifreeze to -8F.  Which is why I use antifreeze.

If you're a liveaboard you can monitor the bilge temp all the time.  But if you're not you have to make the assumption that there's no heat in the bilge because the power could go off at any time without your knowing it.  And in this scenario antifreeze is essential.

Then why bother using heaters at all?  Because it keeps the boat dry, because it keeps the batteries warm and up to full strength and because it keeps ice from forming in the bilge (most of the time) and jamming the bilge pumps.  And if there's any residual water that you missed during winterization the heaters will usually protect you from damage.

Pete37

Posted: October 27 2009 at 22:17 | IP Logged

Hi Corey,

Connies are fully planing motoryachts above 18 knots.  Below 10 knots they're basically displacement yachts.  Between 10 and 18 they operate at various semiplaning levels.

Generally, yachts fail to plane either due to hull form or distribution of weight.  Inboard outboards usually have good hull form but have great difficulting getting into a planing mode because all of the engine and outdrive weight is near the stern.  But in an outdrive brute force wins out over subtlety in weight distribution and with enough horsepower nearly anything will plane.

Inboards usually have the engines mounted amidships which gives them much better weight distribution and they plane more easily.  However, it probably doesn't seem much like planing to someone used to outboards because inboards are usually much larger and heavier.  If a 20 foot runabout has a 200 hp engine, a 50 foot motoryacht would need about 3100 hp. to get similar performance.  Not many of us have that much horsepower and probably couldn't afford to feed it if we did.  Therefore you can't expect the zip of a runabout in a motoryacht.

800 lbs is only about 1.5% of the weight of a 54,000 lb motoryacht so regardless of where you place it there shouldn't be much change in performance.  But based on the fact that I have to trim the trim tabs downward to get maximum performance out of my Connie it appears that a Connie prefers more weight at the bow.  Therefore, the additional weight of the water forward should make a slight improvement in performance.

Pete37

Posted: October 27 2009 at 22:32 | IP Logged

To All,

My plan for installing a second water tank forward of the galley is just a contingency plan in the event that my main water tank (which is working fine now) ever fails.  I'm hoping that I never have to use this plan.  Worrying about how to fill the tanks is placing contingency upon contingency and far to minor an item to worry about at this stage.

Pete37

Posted: October 27 2009 at 22:45 | IP Logged

Pete - here is a link to a site which sells the Thermostat Cube:

http://www.qcsupply.com/qcsupply/browse/productDetailWithPic ker.jsp?productId=10890

I bought three of these.  I use one in the engine room and one in the generator room coupled to oil heaters.  They come on at 35 and off at 45 degrees. 

Posted: October 27 2009 at 22:47 | IP Logged

Hi Emory  & All,

All:

I found another Connie on the Bay.  She's called "Daddy's Dream 5" and is a 1987 Connie 501.  She's the sixth one built and has a hull number of 116.  Apparently she's kept on the Eastern Shore because she uses Kent Island Yacht Yard at Kent Island Narrows for some of her work.

I've never met the owner and don't know anything about her other than that she's a nice looking boat.  Keep an eye out for her.

Emory:

I looked up the Thermostat Cube.  It's a nice device which could be of use to a lot of us.  But at $12.95 I'm not sure I can afford it. 

Thanks,

Pete37

Posted: October 27 2009 at 23:11 | IP Logged

Regarding a previous post having to do with routing water away from window/frames/doors etc.   Here is a link to a company I purchased some gutter material from that really works!  It is vinyl and comes in white, ivory (matches some of our boats nicely) and black.

http://rvgutters.com/ezemarinegutters.aspx

I bought a 50' roll and put gutters directly above my lower salon window frames.  I extended them about 1" beyond the top and but the ends at a 45 degree cut for asthetics.  They have been on for four years and have not loosened at all. Not even after being hit by my deck brush many times or an errant hit from a buffer.

It is a good product and may solve some other leaky issues on our boats permanently, or at least help.

Posted: October 28 2009 at 10:58 | IP Logged

Corey et al,

I have "auxiliary" water tanks in the space under the washer/dryer up forward - about 90 gal or so. My original tank is toast  As for planing the boat, I cannot "tell" any difference whether they are full or MT.  I have to agree with Pete [yes sometime  I do!] that it appears to make no identifiable difference.  It also does help offset the genny weight to port side.

I also agree with Pete about the ability to monitor as a live aboard versus only periodic visits.  I also drain and blow my raw water side and do have a 50% mix of AF in the fresh water side of all three engines. Pete asks about the "need" for bilge heat if the mains are winterized - the bilge heat prevents the fresh water (potable) water from freezing that is in use during the winter as well as the genny, which does perform a standby function if the shore power is down.

 Jim

Posted: October 28 2009 at 13:04 | IP Logged

Jim - what method do you use to "blow" the raw water side of your engines?  Tnx.

Emory

Posted: October 28 2009 at 13:21 | IP Logged

Emory

Thanks for taking the time and effort to recall the construction of the water tank.  I took some good measurements today and don’t think I will be able to fit a chain of rigid tanks in without removing the cabin wall.  I should be able to cut a hole large enough on top to climb in to the tank.  So,  construction of a fiberglass tank or a bladder tank may be my only option. Wish me luck, I am going to start cutting up the floor system tonight.

Pete

“Daddy’s Dream” is berthed at Maryland Yacht Club in Pasadena.  Also, have permanently installed on my bulkhead one of these for each block heater.    http://www.de-icer.com/products_c20.htm  Not only do they have an adjustable thermostat, but they have built in on/off timers.  I use my boat all winter (keep those props spinning) without ever winterizing the engines or generator.  Block heaters do the trick.

And for winterizing heads and heat pumps, I use windshield washer fluid.  It is anti freeze up to -20F and costs 79 cents per gallon.

Allen

Posted: October 28 2009 at 15:01 | IP Logged

Emory,

Last winter I removed one of the raw water side petcocks and used a small threaded fitting to my air pump.  Opened the various petcocks and blew some air through.  While it did move out a bit more water than simple draining, I'm not sure it was a big help.  Unfortunately, the pump tank capacity is rather small and may not have moved enough air (or the fitting was too restricted). 

Conclusion: not sure if I'll go to this bother again.

Jim

Jim

Posted: October 28 2009 at 15:04 | IP Logged

Hi Allen,

There's no question that block heaters will keep the engines warm all winter.  But if the power fails you may freeze up your engines.  You still need antifreeze and you still need to drain the raw water side.

There's an article in this month's Motor Boating Magazine (page62) about a guy who replaced his engines on a 1992 Silverton 402.  The new engines were 480 Hp Yanmar LY3 diesels.  This is just about the size of our engines and the cost of the engine swap was $130K.

There is also in the same article a discussion of the replacement of engines on a 50' 1981 Hatteras that was using 550 Hp. 8V92s.  The owner, Doug Cardentes said

"You hear figures of $2000 to $3000 per cylinder, but then you add the turbos, all the miscellaneous items, and the quote keeps getting higher.  When you add it up the total package was over $70,000."

Cardentes decided to go with new engines and spent about $180,000.  The bright side of this, however, is that he completely got rid of his soot problems.

The moral of these anecdotes is that you have an awful lot of money tied up in your engines and therefore you don't want to do anything that would put them at risk.  Freezing probably wouldn't destroy the engines but a cracked block could easily make an engine a "total constructive loss" which means that the cost of repairing it would be more than its value after the engine was repaired. 

If you get into a "total constructive loss" situation you have no choice but to replace the engines. Are you willing to invest $180,000 in your Connie?

Pete37

Posted: October 28 2009 at 20:14 | IP Logged

Pete

All I was saying is that you could use your block heaters on thermostats instead of having portable heaters.  Don't forget fires can also cost 100's of thousands of dollars too.  I am not going to waste my time to find articles of boats catching on fire from portable heaters to quote you.

I would never leave my boat un-winterized if I could not be there to monitor her on days below freezing.

Allen

Posted: October 28 2009 at 23:10 | IP Logged

Hi Allen,

I don't use portable heaters when I'm not aboard although I think the oil filled radiators are fairly safe.  The only problem I see with them is that the power cords on some get every hot.  My heaters are permanent factory installed marine certified bilge heaters and they are fused and thermostatically controlled. 

When I'm aboard the boat, working on it, I and I am sure you too will use the oil filled radiators as the safest form of portable heaters available.  BTW they are not actually filled with oil.  The reverse cycle A/Cs can only be used in the relatively mild fall and spring months.

I'm glad that you understand that unless you live aboard 24/7 your engines and generator must be completely winterized and that involves antifreeze and complete draining of the raw water side of the cooling system as well.  It also involves draining the boat's plumbing systems and heads.

Unfortunately, from a practical standpoint, winterization also pretty much precludes the use of the boat during the winter.  And of course most of our insurance policies do too.

Winter here in Maryland is about three months long.  December and March are warm enough to do some work on the boat. But in January and February about all you can do is go down to the boat, check it out, shiver a lot and then go back home to watch TV.

Pete37

Posted: October 29 2009 at 11:21 | IP Logged

Allen,

Believe I was the one who was talking about space heaters in the bilge, not Pete... I have 2 oli filled radiator type heaters modified with auxiliary "feet" so they cannot tip over.  Additionally, I run them on "low" setting (only 1 of 2 elements working) which limits the draw to 750 watts... this keeps the line cord cool.  I have several recording digital temp meters that record high/low temps to give some knowledge of activity.  Finally, I do drain the raw water side of the engines and have 50/50 AF mix in all engines.  This is more than adequate while in the water.

Jim

Posted: October 29 2009 at 11:30 | IP Logged

Jim - I essentially do the same.  Two "oil" filled heaters set on low and plugged into two thermo couplers (see previous post) which come on at 35 degrees and off at 45 degrees.  I pour a small amount of pink stuff in the vacuum generators on the vacuflush toilets.  Drain the raw water on the engines.  Run a gallon of pink through the genset.  Winterize evacuate the ElectroScan treatment box.  Blow out the F/W system at all inlets.  Run a couple gallons pink through the A/C's.  Install my vent covers and go home. 

This is, of course, after oil changes, topping batteries and routine winter ready maintenance.

Oh yeah, and winterize the dinghy engine (which I seem to forget on a yearly basis!  Good lil' 30 hp Johnson is all I can say!)

Posted: October 30 2009 at 09:54 | IP Logged

Hi Allen,

I looked over the Kasco C-20 Time and Temperature Control Box you suggested a few posts ago.  It's a good unit but my slip is already equipped with bubblers and the marina takes care of deciding when to turn them on and off.  So I don't really need the timer function. But thanks for the suggestion.

The TC-3 Thermo Cube Thermostat suggested by Banjoman is closer to what I need and only $12.95 each.  The web site address is given below:

http://www.qcsupply.com/qcsupply/browse/productDetailWithPic ker.jsp?productId=10890

One problem with most of these heaters (both bilge heaters and engine block heaters) is that the thermostats are often built into the heater units.  Therefore the heater units are thermostatically controlled but there is no guarantee that parts of the engine remote to the heater are actually at the temperature set on the thermostat.  The thermostats should therefore be set about 10 degrees higher than freezing to account for that.

Pete37

Posted: November 01 2009 at 19:04 | IP Logged

Hi Delaware Jim and Dave,

Jim:

Last September you asked whether I had an Airsep or something like it.  I said I did but couldn't remember what the name was.  Today I found the literature on it.  It's called a "Crank Vent" and it's a Series 1000 unit.  It was made by Diesel Research, Inc. up until at least 1995. The literature is rather vague about how it works.

Dave:

You said you could still get parts for it. If so, from whom?

Pete37

Posted: November 01 2009 at 20:06 | IP Logged

Pete,

I just did a Google search on Diesel Research Inc (Hampton Bay NY) and the results suggests a lot of "not so good" stuff in more recent times. 

If the documentation doesn't explain how it works, how can you know that it IS working?  Is there some form of testing or troubleshooting in your docs to support the operation of it??

Jim

Posted: November 01 2009 at 23:50 | IP Logged

Hi Jim and Dave,

The problem with Diesel Research, Inc. (DRI) system is that it’s not made any more and replacement filters aren’t available anymore.  You can remove and wash the filters in a solvent which helps but eventually they wear out and there aren’t any replacements.  But the rights to DRI’s closed crankcase ventilation system were bought out by RACOR and they now manufacture an improved version of the DRI system which does the about same job as the Airsep systems at about 1/3^rd the price.  A Racor system for a 600 hp. engine is only $291 while an Airsep for a 6V92 costs $900.  I’ll admit an Airsep is a little prettier but….

The Racor Crankcase Ventilation System is described at: www.maesco.com/products/racor/r_extras/r_new/r_new.html.

(Remember that what appear to be blanks in a web address are usually lower case underlines)

I’m not going to try to describe it here because the Maesco site does a pretty good job.

Posted: November 03 2009 at 13:39 | IP Logged

Hi All,

Subject: Connie Depreciation Analysis

On November 2, 2009 I did a search on Yachtworld for all Constellation 500s on the market.  There were 16 of which 13 were the same as those I found in a similar search on February 21, 2009 (a little over 8 months ago). 

Three were new entries which had not been listed in February but all three had been on the market prior to February; some for years.  They had just, for some unknown reason, been taken off the market in February but resurfaced later in 2009.  In doing this analysis, I have excluded one California, Connie which has gone from $339K to $160K in less than 7 months.  This has to be something other than normal market forces.

There were three boats in the February listings that no longer showed up in the November listings.  Two had simply been taken off the market but not sold.  Their CG documentations showed they were still held by the same owners.  One appeared to have been sold at the remarkably low price of $119K; or less.  But it had been listed at $199K on January 15, 2009 and that price was still listed by the broker when I copied the listing on May 9, 2009.  So it appears that the $119K February listing may have been a typo.  However, this boat was definitely sold because the CG documentation shows a new owner.

So out of the 19 boats listed only one sold (at a price which may have been below $119K but could have been as high as $199K).  That’s a little over 5% in 8 months.

Of the 13 boats that were on the brokers lists for the total period from February to November, 8 owners (62%) kept them at the same price and made no discounts.  Five owners, in efforts to make their boats more saleable, made price discounts that ranged from $5K to $40K.  Apparently the discounts had little effect since none of the discounted boats sold and even with these discounts the average asking price of these 13 Connie 500s dropped only $7.5K or 3.3% of their average February asking price of $234K.

The conclusions I make are that due to the recession Connies are selling very slowly but in spite of that Connie owners are “hanging tough” and most are not significantly lowering their prices.  Rumors that, due to the recession, Connies are being sold at “give-away” prices just aren’t true.

Pete37

Posted: November 03 2009 at 16:01 | IP Logged

Pete - according to soldboats.com only one 500 was reported to have sold in 2009. A 1987 model.  The selling price was reported to be $205K.  This was a low-hour vessel shed kept on the Tennessee River (obviously a fresh-water boat).

Soldboats.com is a subsidiary of YachtWorld and is open to brokers and surveyors only.  It is widely used by both as a means of finding "comps" to achieve a fair and reasonable market value. Our types of boats are not normally known to be sold "by owner" and are brokered.  Most brokers that I know are members of soldboats.com.  The vessels which you see in YachtWorld will have their actual sale prices reported to soldboats.com.  The one down-side to the program is, it is no more accurate than the reported sales figures.  However, we find that the vast majority report accurately.

The nearest other Connie was sold in FL in 08' and was a 1988 model with thruster and "recently rebuilt" NIAD stabilizers.  The down side was, it was described as "surveyed mechanically sound" but had been neglected (photos showed no furniture in upper/lower salons and in a state of disarray).  The boat sold for $80K.

As for our values, I can tell you that once a MY reaches the general age that ours have achieved, it is strictly "what the seller will sell for and the buyer will buy for on a given day".  That said, it should be obvious that the bargain hunters will seek out the "fixer-upper" and the folks who are looking for well kept and updated boats will be willing to pay a higher premium.

Posted: November 03 2009 at 18:04 | IP Logged

Pete, Jim and all

I buy my Research Diesel crankcase filters at Mid-Atlantic Engine Supply Corp., Route 130 South, Cinnaminson, NJ, 08077. 1-800- 257-8133, or 856-829-7798. They are near the Betsy Ross Bridge, Jersey side. Haven't bought them in awhile but the cost had doubled; if I recall they went from around $28 to $50 something (each). Mid-Atlantic usually attends the bigger boat shows. I heard (but have not checked it out) that Racor sells the filters you just have to mention it's for the older light grey canister RDI unit. I believe the filters are good for up to 500 hours and of course the canister should be drained form the bottom-side plug every so often.

Posted: November 03 2009 at 18:40 | IP Logged

Ron - no 460s in 09.   Two sold in 08'.  One in Md. (May 08) for $189K and one in FL (June 08) for $157K.  A lot has changed since then.   That's all I got.  Anything older, sales wise, will not be of much use. 

These vessels, 460's and 500's, were not produced in mass numbers, so you don't usually get a lot of activity on them.  Especially now.

Emory

Posted: November 04 2009 at 00:13 | IP Logged

Hi Emory,

I'm familiar with SoldBoats but don't have access to it now because I'm no longer in the brokerage business.  The only Connie 500 I found that was sold in 2009 was the "Rite Weigh" a 1985 Connie which changed documentation in March 2009 and became the "Callie B".  I'm surprised that SoldBoats didn't list her.  But perhaps she actually sold before 2009 but was still listed in February.

I didn't find a 1987 model that sold but it's possible she came on the market after February and sold before November.  If she did that I wouldn't have found her.  If I missed that one there would be two Connie 500s sold in 2009 or about 10% of the boats listed.  That's still a rather poor sales record.

The trouble with quoting SoldBoats is that it's supposed to be confidential to brokers only.  Yachtworld on the other hand is available to the public.

The time to sell a Connie is usually measured in years, not months.  One of the Connies presently on the market has been "For Sale" for over 10 years.  And there are many others that have been "For Sale" for over 5 years.  Of course we have no way of knowing how serious the owners are about their "For Sale" status.

At any given time there are 20 to 30 Connie 500s on the market (depending on the state of the economy) so if you figure an average sale time of three years you would expect 7 to 10 sales a year.  But that's in normal times.  One or two per year shows you how severe the recession is.

Pete37

Posted: November 04 2009 at 00:41 | IP Logged

Hi Dave,

Thanks for the info on the DRI filters.  I'll check it out.  New filters would be a lot cheaper (even at $50 each) than new Racor or Airsep systems.  And if I can get 500 hours out of them I should only need a couple sets in my lifetime.

BTW, Mid-Atlantic Engine Supply Company abbreviates to MAESCO which is the same company that sells the new Racor CCV systems.  I gave their web address in my post above.

Pete37

Posted: November 04 2009 at 10:46 | IP Logged

Hi Dave & All,

I checked with MAESCO and they still carry the Crank Vent filter elements.  The 820 Series (6" dia.) is $75.25 and the 1000 Series (8" dia.) is $79.42.  That's still a lot cheaper than a new system.  I think mine are the 1000 Series but I'm going to check before I order. Thanks for the help.

Pete37