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David Ross
"Navigator"




Joined: January 02 2007
Posts: 452
Posted: June 13 2007 at 22:56 | IP Logged Quote David Ross

Pete

I had a riser separate just 1/8th inch or so from the clamp last year and also had a huge soot mess along with a huge bill.  I went with the stainless steel risers and had all new hoses and fittings done at the same time. I could have gone with cast risers as they would probably last longer than I will have the boat but deciced to go for it. I was lucky as I was in the engine room just prior to the riser letting go. I was loosing power on the starboard engine and went to check the gauge on the Racor fuel filter.  A few minutes later soot all over and high heat. Gauges located at the helm would be a better way to go.

Dave



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Pete37
"Commander"




Joined: November 12 2006
Posts: 2317
Posted: June 14 2007 at 11:02 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Dave & All,

Yeah, you just can't believe how much soot a few seconds of running with a ruptured riser will create.  And the soot gets sucked into both engines damaging both.  I'm sorry to hear of your problems but glad that you mentioned it.  Perhaps this will convince some of the readers that bad risers are serious business and they don't just happen to the other guy. 

I'm not sure that gages at the helm would have detected the problem in time to do any good.  My engine shut down within a half minute of the rupture.  Just a few seconds delay looking at fuel filters can make the damage far worse.

To all readers, if you have cast iron risers check them and if they are more than 7 years old replace them.  If you ignore them you may be paying a $20,000 repair bill!



Edited by Pete37 on June 14 2007 at 11:07


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BAYSALOR
"Seaman"




Joined: December 08 2006
Posts: 39
Posted: June 17 2007 at 09:55 | IP Logged Quote BAYSALOR

Hi, everybody - new members Ron and Lexi here (Baysalor and
Salorlady, respectively).

I didn't realize how little I knew about my Connie (vintage 1988,
named Vintage Port) until I read all the entries on this site. I'm sure
that I'll be tapping everyone's brains on a regular basis.

And, Pete37, you scare the dickens out of us with your reports of
things starting to break at regular intervals after 20 years. We have
been lucky so far - no major things have broken, but this past winter
hammered us to death with freezing water lines, cracked water
valves, faucets, and the pump body on the fresh water pump
(cracked).

But my first question to the forum is:

1. What is the EMERGENCY CROSSOVER used for? It is a part of the
fuel manifold.

2. How do I know what fuel tanks I am running off of?

3. What tank does the genset pull from?

We are year-round live-aboards on the South River, just south of
Annapolis, Maryland.

I'd appreciate any help you can give me.

We look forward to chatting with every soon.

Ron and Lexi

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Furman1
"Deckhand"




Joined: November 27 2006
Posts: 227
Posted: June 17 2007 at 12:41 | IP Logged Quote Furman1

As I understand it, the emergency crossover is for only drawing from a particular tank. Such as bad fuel in one tank, or one tank low on fuel.

Your genenerator should be drawing from the port aft tank. And that can't be switched to another tank.

There should be 3 pointers (valves) under the stairs to the master stateroom. They will tell you which tank you're drawing from. forward or aft.

My boat had a bad diesel smell and I found that the fuel lines had started weeping diesel throught the rubber. It was a big job but after I replaced all the lines (approx. 350 lf) and the smell went away.

BTW you've got a great boat but it will need to be maintained

Furman



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Fantasy
"Navigator"




Joined: November 30 2006
Posts: 324
Posted: June 17 2007 at 19:07 | IP Logged Quote Fantasy

Welcome to the Forum, Baysalor!  Someone suggested a Bay rendezvous-- that might be fun.  Both Dave and I are on the Sassafras and Pete is at Kent Narrows.

I think Furman has it right, on all counts, although I've never had to use that crossover.  Interestingly, on my boat the main tanks (under the bed) do not have shut-off valves at the tanks but the forward engine room tanks do. 

If, for some reason, I wanted to draw only from my aft starboard tank (for example), I would put the port tank manifold valve on "forward", shut off the valve at the forward port tank and move the crossover valve to the "on" position.  That would allow me to only draw from the starboard aft tank for both engines, however, the generator draw would not change as it is not on the manifold.

Sorry to hear about your winter freeze problems.  I've found the best solution for the boat and for me personally, is to move south for the winter.  And, Furman's marina is a great stopover!



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460 Chris Craft Constellation
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David Ross
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Joined: January 02 2007
Posts: 452
Posted: June 17 2007 at 22:47 | IP Logged Quote David Ross

Baysalor,

Glad to hear from a new member to the chat line.  Furman and John are correct. That's how my system is set up and works. A lot of good info has been passed around. Nice to have another close by owner.

Dave 



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Pete37
"Commander"




Joined: November 12 2006
Posts: 2317
Posted: June 18 2007 at 08:31 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Baysailor & Sailorlady,

Welcome to the forum.  As a newbie to Connies you should get a lot out of the forum.  Apparently you didn't winterize your boat properly last year.  You have to fill all your systems that have fresh water in them with antifreeze at the end of the year (about November).  That includes the engines, generator, fresh water system, toilets, air conditioning system, etc.  It's a lot of work but it has to be done (or you have to go to Florida).

Usually I either fill the fresh water system with potable antifreeze or blow out all the lines with an air compressor.  The hot water heater has to be turned off and drained too.  If you forget to turn off your water heater and drain it you will burn out the heater element.  I have a list which I use for winterization to make sure I haven't forgotten anything. And you have to close all seacocks etc. also.

Sorry, that I scare the dickens out of you.  That's not my intent.  What I'm trying  to do (and one of the main purposes of the forum) is to warn owners of potential problems so that they can avoid them.  But on the other hand a little fear can be a good thing.

Your Connie used to be the "Daria".  I have pictures of her from the broker's ad (Martin Bird).  I see she has relatively low engine hours and looks to be in great shape.  Your bridge clearance, by the way, is about 20' 8" not the 17' 1" listed in the broker's ad.  I had a discussion with Furman about bridge clearance a few days ago and as a result went down to the boat and actually measured the bridge clearance with a steel tape.  The measurement includes the radar and is accurate to about 1/2 inch.

With 800 hours and 19 years on her your boat is overdue for replacement of the risers if you have cast iron risers.  If they have already been replaced or if you have stainless steel risers this comment doesn't apply.  Neglecting your risers can be very, very expensive.

Wishing you a great summer. 

Pete37



Edited by Pete37 on June 18 2007 at 09:24


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BAYSALOR
"Seaman"




Joined: December 08 2006
Posts: 39
Posted: June 18 2007 at 14:17 | IP Logged Quote BAYSALOR

Wow! I never expected to get replies to my post so quickly.
Everyone must check this site on a regular basis.

Furman, Thanks for the info on the crossover thing. I managed to
run one tank down to fumes this past week, and all the others were
full, and I hadn't a clue as to why. That won't happen again, I pray.

Pete, You missed the part where I said we were full-time liveaboards,
including winter.   What we didn't do was not to winterize properly,
but rather we didn't provide sufficient heat at night. Next year will be
different. I can't afford to fix all this stuff twice.

I like the Florida part better.

Pete: Yes, she used to be Daria. We bought it in Buffalo, NY, and
brought it down thru the Erie Canal. And trust me, I KNOW about the
height clearance. We were close to 22 feet, and ALMOST didn't fit
under a cuppla bridges. Never trust broker's ads.

Yes, a Chesapeake Bay rendezvous would be fun.

Looking forward to hearing from everyone more.

Ron (BaySALOR) and Lexi (SALORlady)

BaySAILOR and SAILORlady are both out on the west coast. They
get our email all the time.

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Ken27
"Deckhand"




Joined: December 12 2006
Posts: 138
Posted: June 18 2007 at 15:20 | IP Logged Quote Ken27

Pete,

In reference to your post of June 12, 2007, I believe we need to clarify some major points of my contract with this proposed corporation.  If I'm the one with all the responsibility for the detailing and upgrading of said vessels, along with having to relocate to Taiwan for a few years, with ONLY a title of "Director of Operations", while the rest of you remain cozy, comfortable, and relaxed on your boats, it is of my and my legal staff's opinions, that my compensation package, along with my golden parachute, should reflect the above mentioned concerns with the inequitable balance of talent and responsibility.

Please refer any and all responses to my attorneys.

Sincerely,

Ken

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Pete37
"Commander"




Joined: November 12 2006
Posts: 2317
Posted: June 18 2007 at 21:47 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Ken,

Glad to see that you are still checking the posts once in a while but sorry to hear that you are passing up this golden opportunity to become Director of Operations of a major international yacht corporation.  However, Furman hasn't expressed any interest in financing the corporation either so that just leaves me and John as President and Treasurer respectively. 

And John hasn't expressed any interest in buying any stock so that leaves just me to finance the $1.5M.  As I said I will probably have to wait till my next paycheck to finance this corporation.  In fact I will probably have to wait for a whole bunch of paychecks.  But keep your staff of lawyers on retainer anyway just in case this idea should reincarnate.

Pete37



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Pete37
"Commander"




Joined: November 12 2006
Posts: 2317
Posted: June 18 2007 at 22:01 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Baysailor,

I keep a couple of built in heaters going in my bilge even though I winterize.  I tend to be a belt and suspenders guy.  It's quite expensive to run those heaters but it's cheaper than paying for the repairs.  You may have to keep the whole boat heated because there are pipes running everywhere and that could be extremely expensive.

Pete37



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Fantasy
"Navigator"




Joined: November 30 2006
Posts: 324
Posted: June 19 2007 at 09:58 | IP Logged Quote Fantasy

Dear Friends,

I've meant to post this for some time but haven't.

In the spring of 2006 we were traveling north from Florida and ran into heavy winds and seas on the Albemarle Sound.  The wind was on our bow and there were no opportunities for refuge.  We hoped that as we progressed toward the leeward side of the Sound, the water would flatten but it got progressively worse.

The Sound is relatively shallow which causes the waves to develop steep with a short duration.  We had a steady 30kn wind coming at us with stronger gusts. Not only was the spray intense but the bow was stuffing into just about every wave with torrents of water washing over the deck.  The volume and velocity of the water caused nearly every window and hatch on the boat to leak,  my port windshield wiper sheared its drive shaft in half when it went over the edge of the windshield, and one of the scroll logos on the bow was blasted off as was the bow seat cover.

We used every towel on the boat to soak up water leaks.  When we made it to Coinjock we decided to tie up and dry out.  My wife opened the washing machine and found it full of seawater so she turned it on to remove the water.  When she did, it immediately started hissing, popping and smoking.  In short, it was fried.

My first thought was that the seawater must have siphoned back through the drain but I later found out that the water that was washing over the deck was also propelled through the dryer vent, through the vent hose and into the machine.  The same was true for the opposite vent which serves the forward head exhaust blower, which also was ruined.

When we made it back to Maryland, I started taking apart the cabinetry to remove the washer for replacement.  After taking some measurements I found that the newer machines are taller and would not fit in the space without major creative structural changes.

With all of the cabin moldings and cover panels removed, I was able to pull the machine far enough out to get behind it to start testing circuits and electrical components.  Fortunately, the motor and most of the controls were shielded so that they did not get wet but the wire terminals and the nylon connectors had all turned to powder.  I was able to cut all of the bad stuff out and rewire with butt connectors and new ring terminals.  I was lucky and everything worked and has kept working for over a year now.

All of this is to tell you that there is a potential design problem in the clam shell vents below your bow seat, should you happen to find yourself in unfavorable sea conditions.  My solution is to stuff each vent with a large sponge whenever we are traveling.  An alternate solution might be to make canvas covers for the vents.

John

PS  I keep a small brazing torch on board which I used to repair the windshield wiper shaft while at Coinjock and my good friend David Ross had a "spare" bow logo for me when I returned to the Sassafras.



Edited by Fantasy on June 19 2007 at 10:12


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Furman1
"Deckhand"




Joined: November 27 2006
Posts: 227
Posted: June 19 2007 at 10:17 | IP Logged Quote Furman1

Thanks for the information. I know that may have been very scary. I have never thought of water coming in those vents. Did you have any trouble with the Microwave?  It uses the same vent as the dryer.

Furman



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Fantasy
"Navigator"




Joined: November 30 2006
Posts: 324
Posted: June 19 2007 at 10:38 | IP Logged Quote Fantasy

Thanks Furman, I forgot to mention the microwave.  I got lucky with that one.

Just a few months before, my wife was complaining that whenever she used the dryer, the microwave would steam up.  So, I cut into the vent hose behind the dryer and installed a one way damper.  I think that probably saved it from the water.  Come to think of it, that might be a good solution for water into the dryer too.



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David Ross
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Joined: January 02 2007
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Posted: June 19 2007 at 12:14 | IP Logged Quote David Ross

John and all,

John, I remember your concern and story about the bow seat area vent covers; good idea to share it with this forum. I plan to make corrections. I had a problem with birds attemping to make a nest in one of the vents and installed screening in both openings, but  never considered the water problem.

Dave



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Ken27
"Deckhand"




Joined: December 12 2006
Posts: 138
Posted: June 19 2007 at 15:11 | IP Logged Quote Ken27

Greetings to all,

First to John.  That's quite a ride you had.  Sorry to hear about the mess you had, and the damage.  I got caught in seas like that when I was delivering a boat across the Gulf to Mobil Bay.  I found ALL the leaks in the boat when the bow would stuff, which was every wave for about 6 hours.  Nowhere to go for cover and no way to deal with the leaks under way.  Very frustrating!  The forcast for the previous two days was for 3-5' seas.  I think the chamber of commerce or the tourist bureau for south Florida and the Gulf coast must have an influence on those forcasts.  Thanks for the heads up on all those problem areas.  We've got pretty tame waters up here in Minnesota so I don't expect to see conditions like that with our boat.  However, in bringing the boat up from Nashville, when we took a left onto the Ohio river off the Cumberland, we hit some of the worst I've seen on any river system.  We were stuffing the bow there, until we hit the Mississippi.  We were taking spray over the flybridge and water over the bow.  Luckly though, it wasn't bad enough to do any damage like you experienced.  However, we did lose a TV. 

Pete, I might reconsider your offer.  If the Board of Directors would consider sweetening the deal by sending my kids and grandkids over for two weeks of every month, first class of course, we might have a deal!

To the rest of my friends here, I have not been ignoring you folks.  I've been overwhelmed with work, grandkids, and the boat restoration.  I have been reading all that you contribute, and to be honest, with all the wealth of knowledge and experience you all have, I have little to offer.  If and when I think I can be of some help, I will not hesitate to contribute.  When I finish this project, I promise I will bore you with every detail of every phase.

Ken

I need clarification on the riser discussion.  Are all you folks who have had riser issues, in salt water?  At the first mention of a potential problem, I had a discussion with my mechanic about it and had him look at them.  He advised me that seeing as this boat has never seen salt water, it isn't an issue.  I know that even with gas engines in salt water, the exhaust manifolds must be changed every few years.  By the way, my mechanic is a trained Detroit Diesel tech. and now only does marine work.



Edited by Ken27 on June 19 2007 at 15:20
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David Ross
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Posts: 452
Posted: June 19 2007 at 16:53 | IP Logged Quote David Ross

Ken and all,

You sure won't bore us with the details of your project and we all can learn fom your experience. Looking forward to your progress.

Regarding the risers, as I mentioned earlier mine let go and was messy and exspensive.  My 500 has been on the Chesapeake for the last 15 years but was in Florida her first few years. As the risers age it doesn't help they lack a support to hold them up. As they weaken, wear and rust, the weight can break them and snap the clamp and/or cause a slight separation. If they were supported you might buy some time and be able to see some evidence of wear before the breakage or separation. I've heard that cast iron risers last 8 -12 years. I went for stainless steel with all the other expences envolved I figured go for it.

Dave



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Pete37
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Joined: November 12 2006
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Posted: June 19 2007 at 21:52 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi All,

There is a place that will make you a spare bow logo.  I lost one to heavy weather on the Chesapeake Bay.  You will have to fill the logo and spray it with gold paint but once done it looks just like the original.  If anyone is interested I think I still have the address in my notes.

I've crossed Albermarle sound several times and all but one time it was relatively calm.  But one time the wind was blowing 30 knots from the northwest and it was a terror.  As helmsman I had the wheel to hold onto but the other guys had only the seats to hang onto and were afraid they would be catapulted into the water by the rolling.  We rode it out on the flybridge. 

One would think that it would have been smarter to go below to the lower helm but the spray overwhelmed the windshield wipers so badly that we couldn't see the waves coming at us.  You need to see the waves before they hit you in order to counteract some of their affect by steering changes.  The wicked part of the Albermarle is that the waves are hitting you from the beam and because of the shallow depth they are short.  The rolling they cause is unbelieveable.  Larger waves on most of the Chesapeake don't bother you as much because they are longer.  But some parts of the lower Chesapeake are shallow and create waves very similar to the Albermarle.

The bow of a Connie is about 6 feet above the waterline and I have buried my bow 3 feet below the water when negotiating some of the storms on the Chesapeake.  As the boat would rise from one trough to meet the crest of the next wave it would pick up tons of water and fling it onto the flying bridge.  I never had water problems with the washer or dryer but that may just have been because I didn't use them until several days after the storm.  Covering the the vents sounds like a good idea.

Ken

I would think that salt water, being much more corrosive than fresh water would cause risers to fail more quickly.  But cast iron does rust even in completely fresh water so there is probably a maximum lifetime in fresh water.  BTW, there is no way to effectively inspect risers short of removing them from the engines.  Remember that one part of the antifreeze that you put in the freshwater part of your cooling system is a rust and corrosion inhibiter.  That inhibitor is not present in the risers. The rust and corrosion start at the inside of the riser and work their way out.  A nice shiny, well painted riser may be rusted to hell on the inside but you will never see it from the outside until it fails.

Dave

The original risers of the 6V92s made by J&T did have metal support rods attaching them to the engine block.  You can see them in the J&T's advertising photos and my original risers had support rods.  The replacement risers have a boss to which these rods are supposed to be attached.  But mechanics are reluctant to drill and tap the hole necessary to attach the rods to the the riser boss because they are afraid they may damage the riser casting.  So when new risers are installed, the support rods are normally discarded.  If your risers lack support rods and are on J&T 6V92s they have probably been replaced at least once.  Some of you may still have the rods flopping uselessly around attached to the engine but not the riser.

Pete37



Edited by Pete37 on June 19 2007 at 22:40


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Fantasy
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Joined: November 30 2006
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Posted: June 20 2007 at 07:38 | IP Logged Quote Fantasy

FYI to all,

The bow logo and a few other Murray Chris parts are available here:

http://www.chrisparts.com/nameplates.htm

The logo is $75.

John



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Ken27
"Deckhand"




Joined: December 12 2006
Posts: 138
Posted: June 26 2007 at 14:02 | IP Logged Quote Ken27

Greetings everyone,

A while ago I mentioned another source for hard to find parts and equipment for our Connies, although many of you are probably aware of it.  It is www.web4wise.com/seacure.  It is "Sea Cure Technology, Inc."  It specializes in Uniflite parts and equipment.  I hope this helps someone.

Ken

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Pete37
"Commander"




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Posted: July 01 2007 at 11:01 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi All:

I was browsing through the Yachtworld broker's ads on Connie 500s and found that 28 out of the 73 built are for sale now.  That's a lower number than a few years ago when about 40 were for sale so that's good news.  But the bad side is that I found that 5 of the 28 were listed at less than $200K with one listed at only $135K.  After buyer's discounts and brokers fees the owner will be lucky to clear $100K.

I took a close look at the Connie for sale at $135K.  She has no radar arch, only two L shaped seats on the FB and the aft half of the FB was empty.  Pictures of the interior are kind of strange.  The owner has just put in new carpeting but a lot of the furniture normally on a Connie is missing.  And the pictures also show that a job on replacing curtains is incomplete with no curtains on some windows.  Also, the rear wall of the lower salon which is varnished mahogany has a strange mottled appearance like it had been damaged, bleached down to bare wood and then restained and varnished.  The ad says large parts of her interior wood have been refurbished.  Strange! This boat had been for sale under a different name for a long time, was sold and now the new owner wants out in only a year or two. 

No data or pictures were given on the engines.  Frankly, this is a boat I would be nervous about if I were thinking about buying it.  The price on this boat is probably an anomally.

Pete37



Edited by Pete37 on July 05 2007 at 01:31


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DMark
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Joined: July 03 2007
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Posted: July 03 2007 at 08:50 | IP Logged Quote DMark

Hi Pete,

I'm Mark Dawes.  Bought a 1986 Connie in April this year.  So to those of you who are in the market there is hope.  I grew up on a Pacemeker 46 that my grandfather owned and caught the bug.  If you've read the posts you know that this is the base design from which the "expanded" Connie 500s were taken.  Took me a long time to get back to boating what with kids and sports and such, but I'm very happy to own one.  We keep her on the Ohio River at Four Seasons Yacht Club (FSYC).

I appreciate the maintenance check list.  The previous owner of my Connie, Ken Marcotte (Cincinnati, OH), owns a Firestone automotive repair franchise and is one of the most meticulous people I've ever met.  He loves the classic designs as I do and did a marvelous job restoring this boat.  The motors are very well maintained as are the infrastructural systems.  He's replaced many along the way.  He also recently updated the interior and last spring finished a complete strip down repainting (including removal of all the bright work).  She was repainted with IMRON paint.  I have a beautiful "virtual" new boat.

I have one major item to deal with, I need to replace the A/C in the lower salon and will takle that in the next few weeks.  Beyond that, I'm replacing the navigation electronics.  But, that's more driven by lack of replacement parts for the current components.  The LORAN is the only malfunctioning component I have.

As I said, I couldn't be happier.  I also realize that I'll be faced with replacing aging parts and systems and will need this site.  I strongly suggest that you expand the mailing list as indicated in your letter.  All of these hulls are essentially the same and all of the current owners stand to benefit.

Also, I'm a bit of a historian and have great files.  I have the original Chris Craft owners manual, blueprints, and many of the installation and operations manuals for the internal components.  I'm not the best at troubleshooting over a forum, but am happy to send copies to anyone who "just asks."

Thanks for doing this.  Glad to help any way I can.

(This is a duplicate post, I posted the original message to the wrong topic.  In order to keep things organized I think we are going to need a space on a site for multiple topics.)

 

 



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"NANCY CAROLYN" ('86, CC500)
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Pete37
"Commander"




Joined: November 12 2006
Posts: 2317
Posted: July 05 2007 at 01:28 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Mark,

Welcome aboard!

I too have a malfuntioning LORAN.  If I wanted to spend some time and money, I could probably get it workng again but I doubt it's worth the trouble now that we have GPS chartplotters.  If LORAN should become valuable again I may repair it but for now I'm just ignoring it.  The only thing that bothers me is that I don't like to have non-working electronics on the dash.  But I haven't found anything I really need to fill the space the LORAN takes up on the dash and empty holes are ugly.

I've got the broker's ads for "Borderline Fool" which you have apparently renamed "Nancy Caroline" and she appears to be a creampuff.  Hull #152, I believe, was the next to last of the 1986 models built.  Her hull construction was started in December of 1985.  I haven't been able to find Hull #153 the last of the 1986 models also started in December of 1986. 

You are the first of the 1986 owners to respond to my mailing of about 20 letters to 1986 owners.  I hope there will be a bunch more.  As you probably know the purpose of this forum is to exchange ideas on the repair, maintenance and use of Connies.  As a new owner you probably have a lot of questions and I hope some of our members may have answers for you.

Don't trust the electrical blueprints too much.  I have a set too but they weren't kept up to date by CC.  The blueprints are a good starting point but you will have to check everything if you do any repairs.  And there are a lot of systems that aren't on the blueprints.

I'm a little surprised at the cruising and max speed listed in the broker's ad.  You should do 20.0 knots at 2100 rpm with a max speed of about 22 knots.  My normal cruising speed is 18.4 knots at 2000 rpm.   This loads the engines to about 65% of their max horsepower.   It sounds like someone fiddled with the original props which should be 30" diameter by 31" pitch with a 2:1 transmission. 

Anyway, you seem to have lost 4 knots off the original performance of the boat. But cruising speed varies quite a bit with water depth (about 2 knots) which would explain part of the loss of speed.  The cruising speed I am qouting (18.4 knots at 2000 rpm) is for a 12' depth which is typical of most inland waterways.  In 35' depth you would only get 16.8 knots.  It's possible that the broker's were quoting deep water speeds but the only way to know for sure is to run your boat in deep (greater than 35') and 12' depths.

Pete37



Edited by Pete37 on July 05 2007 at 01:33


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Gary Blankenship
"Seaman Recruit"




Joined: July 03 2007
Posts: 3
Posted: July 09 2007 at 14:05 | IP Logged Quote Gary Blankenship

Hi Pete,

I am not an experienced forum participant. So if this message ends up in the wrong place give me directions re: how to participate in the Murray Chris Craft forum.

I have an '86 connie, not sure where to find the haul number but I suspect it is the last 3 digits of the number painted on the stringer in the generator room. If that is right mine would be 80.

I have a tank that appears to be part of a water making apparatus that has since been abandon. It is in the study floor.

The some of the walls of my boat  are upoholstered. the surface is sticky and solution to this problem other than replacement?

gary



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Pete37
"Commander"




Joined: November 12 2006
Posts: 2317
Posted: July 09 2007 at 15:11 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Gary,

Don't worry Gary, your post wound up exactly where it should have been.  Welcome to the forum.

The number you found on the stringer is your documentation number which ends with an 80.  Your Hull Identification Number (HIN) is (or should be) located on the starboard side of the transom and should start with CCNYE which is the manufacturer's identification code (MIC) for Murray Chris Craft.  Some earlier 1985 models had a CCSYE MIC.  If you still can't find your HIN give me a post.

The HIN is also hidden at a second location on your boat which I will not disclose due to security concerns.  But after you have had the boat for a while I'm sure you will find it.  The next three characters after the MIC are the hull number and the last four numbers define the start of hull construcion and model year. 

The tank you are referring to may be your boat's water tank which is partly located under the study (Guest stateroom) floor.  But I can't imagine how you managed to find it.  You will have to give me some more details to sleuth this one out.  Is it still attached to the boat or is the tank just sitting on the floor?  How big is it and what does it look like?  I suspect it may be the oil reservoir from the oil exchange system.

You need to tell me which walls are sticky, color of the sticky areas, smell of the sticky areas and any other details you know.  Most of the upholstered walls are in the staterooms (forward, guest and master).  The best solution would be to clean the walls but first we need to know what we are cleaning up.  Have you asked the previous owner?  I assume you have tried soap and water without success.  

BTW there used to be a 1985 Connie named "Blank-N-Ship" also in Kemah, Texas.  Any relation?  I believe your boat used to be named "Rubblizin" and had nice new engines.  Did you buy her from Cherry Yachts?

Again, Welcome to the Forum,

Pete37

 



Edited by Pete37 on July 09 2007 at 15:50


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Gary Blankenship
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Posted: July 09 2007 at 18:39 | IP Logged Quote Gary Blankenship

Thanks for the reply Pete,

Now that you pointed it out to me I remember the number you are talking about. I'll check it out and tell you the haul number so you can mark me off the list. There is at least one more connie in clearlake, it was for sale at least a couple of years but I think it has sold now. Not sure what it sold for thought.

I ran across a Jefferson at southshore that look identical to my boat. I was told by the previous owner that someone from Murray CC took the plans to Jefferson. Does any one know anything about that? 

Your right, the boat was named Rubblizin. Actually I have documents showing all owners of the boat. I bought it 10/2005 through houston yachts. It has new engines, new electronics and is in great shape.

The upholsterd walls are in the hall and master state room. I have tried cleaning using: water, all purpose cleaners and denatured alcohol. The fabric binder seems to be vinyl polymer base that is decomposing. Replacing them will be a huge job and expensive I presume so I would like to do something to preserve and if possible reverse the problems.

Re: the water tank, I can only see the edge of the tank by raising the step going down to the master state room. I think it is about 6-8" high, 4-5 feet long and about 2 foot wide. Grey water lines going in and out of the edge that I can see. The previous owner installed a 30 gallon poly water tank and so as far as I can tell this tank is not in service. The documentation for the boat suggests there was a water making apparatus in the boat at one time. There is a high pressure pump, now electrically disconnected under the same step where I see the edge of the tank. I think this must have been part of the reverse osmosis unit.

gary



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Pete37
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Posted: July 09 2007 at 20:54 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Gary,

Don't worry about the number.  I already know what it is and it should be in your sales documentation too.  It's not the "haul: number it's the "hull" number.  The Connie "Blank-N-Ship" sold and is now called "XL" .  She was hull #107 and the owner lives in Fulton, TX.

Jefferson might have stolen the plans from CC but in reality, I think they were both probably trying to mimic the fabulously successful Hatteras 53.

The design of the Connie was laid out by a well known naval architect, Dave Martin from NJ for Pacemaker Corp.  They sold it from 1977 to 1980 and then went out of business.  The original design was a 46' boat.  Uniflite bought Pacemakers rights and molds and built the boat from 1980 to 1984 and then went bankrupt.  Just before they closed they stretched the hull to 50' and made one (possibly two) hulls. 

In 1980 G. Dale Murray bought up the defunct original Chris Craft Co. and formed the Murray Chris Craft Co.  The Murray part was required in the sale to distinguish  Murray's company from the original CC.  In 1984 Murray wanted to add a large yacht to its line of boats and bought out Uniflite.  It started production of 46' and 50' Connies in 1985, produced about 110 to 120 hulls between 1985 and 1988 and then in turn went bankrupt too.  Who says all yacht builders become millionaires?

The upholstery on the walls is actually a form of wallpaper but I don't know where you can get it.  If you could find some it wouldn't be too expensive to put up.  Sounds like someone will have to do some research at wallpaper stores.  Of course cleaning it is the best solution if you can find a way to do it.

Yep, sounds like you have a ruptured water tank.  You are the third Connie owner who has reported this problem. Furman had to replace his and I think that Fantasy also had a water tank failure.  Look back four or five pages and I think you will find the posts.  Unfortunately the main water tank is huge (about 110 gallons), is nearly 12' long and is in a godawful location to get at.  You need to talk to Furman.

Hey Furman are you out there!  This guy needs your help!

Pete37



Edited by Pete37 on July 09 2007 at 21:47


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David Ross
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Posted: July 11 2007 at 10:06 | IP Logged Quote David Ross

Pete and all,

Pete you mentioned your prop size was 30" diam and 31 pitch. My spare props (stored below the galley hatch) are stamped 29x33 and stamped Chris  Craft 1985 (my 500 is a 1987,as you know). They are bronze, 4 blade. When my boats was  bottom painted this spring I was told the props installed are also 29x33. According to my J&T manual max rpm's are 2300 under load ( I never felt comfortable doing a no load test; if it was done I wouldn't want to be around... ) but have heard max is suppose to be 2350.  A few weeks ago according to my Benmar digital tach the port engine hit 2254 and the starboard 2286. Gps reading was 19.5 knots (22.4 mph). I was in 16' to 18' of water, against the current with full fuel and water.

Also occasionally I have a soot deposit on the transom. When I first got the boat it was really bad. I installed a De Bug magnetic system (similar to Algae X) and it cut down soot on the transom 60%. I recently had the injectors replaced and a tune up but still can have a build up of soot.  Sometimes hardly anything, other times quite noticeable. I guess it depends on the distance traveled, wind direction, following sea, speed, etc. The last cruise I put tape over the slots in my swim platform and no soot at all.  I guess I eliminated the station wagon effect. I can devise a better way to deflect the exhuast if this dirty exhaust is normal and not causing future engine problems. I've been told the fuel today is differant and older diesels were sent up for fuel of that era. Other boat owners of non Chris Craft boats that are about 20 years old have told me they have a soot problem also.

Does anyone else experience this problem? Do all the Chris Craft 500's have the slotted swim platform? Any comments or suggestions. Of course I have the 6v92 engines.

Dave



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Pete37
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Posted: July 11 2007 at 11:10 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Dave,

I have a copy of page 344 of the 2001 Powerboat Guide which gives the Connie 500 a cruising speed of 18 knots and a max speed of 21 knots.  That's about what I get and if you go to the Yachtworld site you will find that is about what is quoted in most of the broker's ads.   As I remember 30 x 31 props were standard with the 2:1 transmissions but I can't find any documentation to prove that at the moment. 

The speed at max rpm isn't really very important because you rarely run at max rpm.  But you should get a little over 18 knots (cruising speed) at 2000 rpm.  It sounds like your engines are slightly underproped which makes it easy for them to reach 2300 rpm but doesn't produce the speed. 

If the props were 30" dia or larger you could correct the problem by repitching the props but the pitch already seems to high so the only solution is new props at about $3,000 per pair.  That probably is too expensive so don't worry about it and just run the boat the way she is.  At today's fuel prices you may be running her at trawler speeds most of the time anyway.

Soot on the transom is endemic with Detroit 6V92s (and most old diesels).  It gets worse as the engines grow older.  Soot usually means that the combustion process isn't working right and that usually means fouled injectors.  But it can also be worn cylinders and pistons.  Your injector overhaul probably reduced the soot a lot. 

I'm also about to have the injectors on my starboard engine overhauled because I've lost a couple hundred rpm on that engine.  The underneath of the swim platform on the starbord side has much more soot than the port side.  It's an expensive process ($1200 to $1500 per engine) but it's just a normal part of owning a Connie.

It's not unusual for a boat which has been for sale for a long time to be very smoky when the new owner gets it.  Diesel fuel only lasts for about 90 days.  After that it begins to degrade.  A boat that's been on the market for a while may have year old (or older) fuel and that's pretty crappy stuff.  Therefore, until you have burned off all the old fuel expect smoky running.  And naturally if you are running slow with a following wind so that the smoke swirls around onto the transom you are going to have more soot.

The 1985 Connies had teak swim platforms but the 1986 and later Connies had molded fiberglass swim platforms.  The original fiberglass swim platforms had wood trim pieces in the slots which cut down the width of the slots and probably reduced the soot too.  But most owners have removed the wood because it was a pain to maintain thereby increasing the soot  However, no matter what you do, you will probably have to get used to washing the transom a lot.  On long trips where I ran 8 hours a day I found that the transom needed to be washed daily.

Diesel fuel today is different than it was 20 years ago but that isn't the reason for the soot.  The soot is there because you are running old, worn diesels and they all smoke a lot regardless of brand or number of engine hours.  A major overhaul at about $20K per engine would probably solve most of the problem but not many of us are willing to bite that bullet.

Pete37



Edited by Pete37 on July 11 2007 at 13:56


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Ken27
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Posted: July 11 2007 at 15:56 | IP Logged Quote Ken27

Dave, Pete, and everyone else interested,

If you remember, I brought our 500 from Bayport, MN to Nashville 6 years ago, and we had no soot on the transom after running HARD for the nine days it took.  BTW ours is an '85 with a teak platform.  Basically nothing but oil changes were done for the next six years, which is why I am needed to do so much to the entire boat.  On the way back from Nashville in April of '06, again we had no soot.  One of the last fuel stops we made, a trained Detroit Diesel mechanic commented that he was surprised to see no soot and asked how often we had cleaned the trasom on the trip.  When we told him never, he was shocked.  He even owned a Detroit powered boat then.  On arrival last spring, we changed oil, all filters, and had it also tuned  and replaced the injectors with rebuilt units.  Why we have never had a soot issue is puzzling.  We have alway run the boat hard though, 2100 RPM's the whole way, all day, every day.  BURNED A HECK OF A LOT OF FUEL IN THE 1100 MILES!!!  (Oops!  I had typed 2300 RPM's.  I never would have heard the end of that from you folks if I hadn't caught the typo!)

Lastly, again ours is an '85, and we have I believe the original props, which are 29 X 31's.

Best regards to all,

Ken

P.S.  I don't have any more time, but soon I will share the story of how I lost the ENTIRE bimini assembly this past Sunday in a storm, 30 seconds after I got my wife, kids, grandkids, and then myself, off the flybridge.

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David Ross
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Posted: July 11 2007 at 17:22 | IP Logged Quote David Ross

To all, more on soot and Chris Craft get together...

I still have the varnished teak in the swim platform inserts. So far all the teak is original. A simple wash down does not get the soot off the transom when it gets bad. I have to use Spray Nine, then wash, use a cleaner and rewax. I am thinking of installing a clear acrylic panel or panels under the swim platform slots or some sort of exhaust deflector (without causing any back pressure). I am going to try the tape over the slots again on our summer cruise.  By the way I have around 1250 hours on the engines.

Speaking of our summer cruise I will be in Annapolis (Annapolis Yacht Basin) July 21 & 22, Oxford (Mears) July 23 to 25, Kent Narrows (Mears) July 26 & 27 and St. Michaels (St. Michaels Marina, on the town side) July 29 to 31.  We are anchoring out on the 28th.  If any  of you are in the area or want to make plans to get together let me know. A good time for show and tell!

Dave



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Pete37
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Posted: July 12 2007 at 15:55 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Dave,

Yes, your right, a simple wash doesn't get all the soot off.  But I've had pretty good success with Tide aplied in heavy strength.  After a couple of washes, though, you still have to polish and rewax.

I think a four to six foot exhaust pipe extension might help reduce the soot but that would be rather ungainly.  I've had the soot problem since I got the boat 13 years ago and haven't found a neat solution yet.  But maybe you will find one.  If you do, let me know.  In fact, if you find a solution, patent it because nearly all diesels have a transom soot problem to some extent.

I have several books on boat maintenance but most are silent on the subject of transom soot.  However, Boat Cosmetics Made Simple recommends washing with detergent, fresh water and plenty of elbow grease.  If that doesn't work they recommend a fine rubbing compound (I use 3M Finesse-It).  They mention that soot disolves wax so no matter how you get the soot off you will have to rewax.  Their final comment is to have your engines tuned. But we know all that already.

Ken's comments are interesting.  Apparently, he runs his engines hard and has no soot problems.  From our earlier discussions of running at low loads we know that the basic cause of soot is low load, low temperature running which will eventually damage your engine.  Therefore,  if you have been running a lot at low speeds that may be part of your problem.  But you have to be careful.  Running at 2300 rpms all the time may solve your soot problem but it may blow your engine.  It also gobbles up one hell of a lot of fuel.

It looks like we have 3 standard props now.  Your 29 x 33 originals, Ken's 29 x 31 originals and my 30 x 31 originals.  Does anyone else have other standard props?

I keep my boat at Kent Narrows (Piney Narrows Yacht Haven).  Maybe we can get together at Annie's for dinner and a chat on the 26th or 27th.

Pete37



Edited by Pete37 on July 12 2007 at 16:40


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Ken27
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Posted: July 12 2007 at 16:54 | IP Logged Quote Ken27

Hi again Pete,

On the soot situation.  Now that the boat has been in MN for the second season, we haven't run the boat very much at the 2100 RPM speed.  Now it's run, and only for short periods meaning 1/2 hour to 3 or 4 hours, at 1000 RPM's to 1400 or 1500 RPM's with very short run ups to 2100, and I still don't have any soot on the transom.  At what speeds and for how long do you folks start seeing the soot?  I'm almost getting paranoid that I haven't seen any soot.  The boat is washed weekly using only standard boat soap.

On the props, the other 50 in my marina, has 31 X 31's, and it also is an '85.  I never got a chance to check the third '85, this spring, as he didn't store his boat with us for the first time in many years.

Thanks again,

Ken

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Pete37
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Posted: July 12 2007 at 17:30 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Ken,

Yes, it's not very patriotic of you to be sootless.  Up until last year, I ran my boat at 2000 rpm almost all the time.  You can't go much higher without getting into overheat problems in the warm bay water and if you drop below 1900 she begins to drop off plane.  Last year I dropped way down to 1300 rpm to conserve fuel on some trips.  But I still usually run it at 2000 rpm on the last leg back to the marina.  I had soot before last year and still have it now.

Boat Soap does a pretty good job of getting rid of the soot.  It's almost equal to the Tide but considerably more expensive.  The weekly washings may be what's keeping your transom soot down.  I don't think you need to become paranoid about not having soot.  However, if you really want soot perhaps I could bag some up and send it to you. 

I'll add the 31 x 31 props to the list of standard props.  It begins to sound like there isn't any standard prop for a Connie.  However, a pitch of 31" seems pretty popular.

Pete37



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Ken27
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Posted: July 12 2007 at 20:50 | IP Logged Quote Ken27

Pete,

Thanks for the quick response, and wait on sending me the bag of soot.  I already have to much stuff I don't know what to do with.

I can't explain why these three '85 500's all have different props.  All were ordered from the same dealer at the same time and delivered to the same marina within a week of each other.  This was due to the influence of Chris Craft's corporate attorney which had a boat in the marina at that time.  I hope I don't get in trouble for telling you that as he's a friend of mine.

I'm traveling for business and pleasure the next week so I'll be out of the loop, but will check in when I get back.  I hope the forum will be loaded with a lot more advice and wisdom when I get back.

Ken

P.S.   One more thing, how come the forum continues to show 35 posts for me?  Don't we get credit for them?  I mean towards retirement.  I plan on that and S.S. so I can live the rest of my life out in the comfort I'm used to.



Edited by Ken27 on July 12 2007 at 20:55
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Pete37
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Posted: July 13 2007 at 00:12 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Ken,

It's possible that the transmissions of these three boats have different ratios and it's also possible that some of the engines may be TI versions while others are TA versions.  There's a difference in horsepower.  It would be very interesting to know whether all three boats perform about the same.

As for the number of posts don't be too upset.  My posts are grossly under-reported too.  It's just some glitch in the software.  I'd like to correspond with you by email about some of the problems of this forum.  Send me a letter with your email address and I will send you one with mine.  Or if you're nervous about releasing your email address I'll send mine first.

I hope your business works out well next week and that the pleasure part of your trip is successful too. 

Pete37

P.S. Finally, since you didn't want to join that corporation I suggested a few pages ago you can hardly expect to get retirement credits from it.  Hope you have plenty of S.S.



Edited by Pete37 on July 13 2007 at 00:22


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Ken27
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Posted: July 13 2007 at 07:43 | IP Logged Quote Ken27

Pete,

I'm headed to the airport soon but I could get the address to you if you respond to this soon.  How do you want me to send the address, through this forum?  As I've said before, I'm a computer rookie.

BTW, our engines are TI's.

Ken

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Pete37
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Posted: July 13 2007 at 12:03 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Ken,

Just send it to PMinott@aol.com.

BTW my Connie has TIs too.

Pete37



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Pete37
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Posted: July 13 2007 at 14:20 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Gary,

I have been in touch with Furman and he would be glad to give you some help on your water tank problem.  I don't like to post email addresses on the forum unless I have the owner's permission so email me (Pminott@aol.com) your email address and I will give you his email address so that you can get in touch with him.

Pete37



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Furman1
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Posted: July 13 2007 at 17:14 | IP Logged Quote Furman1

test

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