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Banjoman
"First Mate"




Joined: July 02 2007
Posts: 553
Posted: December 24 2007 at 10:49 | IP Logged Quote Banjoman

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all from Emory (aka: Banjoman) and Shirley (and of course Sunny the dog!).  Our son Alex has finished his first semester at UVA (NROTC) and has re-applied at the Naval Academy.  Things are looking pretty good.  The crew coach called and has expressed interest in Alex crewing in the light-weight division.  It's his life's dream to go to the Academy and serve his country in the Navy.  We're very proud.  The reason I bring it up is, if he gets into the Academy, Shirley will most likely just pitch a tent and sleeping bag at the gate!  So we'll be spending even MORE time at Annapolis. 

Ya'll have a great holiday and don't eat too much!  (yeah, right).



__________________
Capt. G. Emory Shover
m/v "SOUTHERN CHARM"
Eastern Marine Services, LLC
Marine Survey - Yacht Delivery
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Fantasy
"Navigator"




Joined: November 30 2006
Posts: 324
Posted: December 24 2007 at 20:03 | IP Logged Quote Fantasy

Hey Pete, glad to see you back in the saddle, I was worried about you.

Emory, good luck to you and your son.  I'm sure you are very proud!

Merry Christmas to all,

John



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"Fantasy"
460 Chris Craft Constellation
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Pete37
"Commander"




Joined: November 12 2006
Posts: 2317
Posted: December 25 2007 at 14:04 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi All,

Delaware Jim of "Still in the Mood" who presently has his boat in Baltimore's Inner Harbor sent me an email in which he asked about storage space for extra batteries.  In the process of answering it I began talking about storage space in general.  Since everyone who has a boat always needs extra storage space, I thought my comments might be useful to others too.  Here they are:

If you have removed your old Galley Maid toilet grinders from the engine room (most of us have) there should be spaces behind the two saddle tanks where you could mount batteries.  I'm looking at that space now as a place to store spares and tools needed for engine maintenance.  I'm thinking a couple of storage cabinets or shelve units could easily be added there.  This would reduce the clutter in the above deck storage cabinets.
 
Fortunately, I've never had to mess with the AC panel and I'm not looking forward to doing so.  As far as I can see the former owner didn't mess with it and it seems to be working perfectly.
 
However, I did modify the cabinet just aft of the AC panel alongside the companionway.  If you open it up (two screws) you will find that it is empty except for the cables leading into AC panel which are only at the bottom of the cabinet.  I built a floor in the cabinet above the level of the cables and a plywood cover for the hole in the back of the cabinet.  The floor was left loose (not screwed down) in case I ever need quick access to the cables.  The plywood cover on the back of the compartment removes with two screws.  It provides a storage cabinet about two feet long by a foot deep and about 18 inches high.  I use it for storing winterizing tools, spare parts for the engine and anything else that I only need occasionally but which shouldn't be stored in a wet bilge.  An extra storage cabinet is always handy and if you can get one by adding only two pieces of plywood it's a bargain.
 
The compartment on the aft end of the starboard wall of the lower salon is also basically empty except for the TV antenna amplifier.  A few pieces of plywood could also open that cabinet up for storage.  Unfortunately it's usually covered by the couch so you would only want to store occasionally needed items in it.
 
Merry Christmas & a Happy New Year,
 
Pete37


Edited by Pete37 on December 25 2007 at 14:23


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Fantasy
"Navigator"




Joined: November 30 2006
Posts: 324
Posted: December 27 2007 at 17:40 | IP Logged Quote Fantasy

The current issue of Boat US Magazine (Jan 2008) features the 460 in Jack Hornor's "2nd Time Around" column.  The article is brief, one page, and he traces the hull through Pacemaker, Uniflite and Chris Craft.

I didn't know that some 46's were stabilized or that Pacemaker powered them with 8V-71's (435 hp).  He doesn't mention that some Chris's are powered with 450hp 6-71's, instead of 410 hp and I wonder if that was totally an aftermarket injector upgrade.

John



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"Fantasy"
460 Chris Craft Constellation
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Pete37
"Commander"




Joined: November 12 2006
Posts: 2317
Posted: December 28 2007 at 20:05 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi All,

For John of Fantasy:  Thanks for the welcome back.  I too saw the article about Connies and their predecessors in the January Boat U.S. Magazine.  A nice write up but there's a lot he left out.  Due to space limitations I'm sure.  For those who haven't seen the article it's on page 52.

For All: There was an interesting article by Capt. Bill Pike on trannys (transmissions as they are properly called) in January's Power and Motoryacht magazine.  I'm not going to say much about it other than it's well worth reading.

But there are a couple paragraphs that you should cut out and paste in some conspicuous place in your engine room.  Here's what he said:

"You've probably noticed that the dipsticks on your transmissions are marked with an admonishment to check hydraulic fluid when the tranny's are hot.  Moreover, there may be a a second admonishment to avoid overfilling.  Important warnings!

Let's deal with the first one first.  Most transmissions today have fluid coolers that are alongside or above them, an arrangement that gravity-feeds fluid back to the main sump once the engine is turned off.  Crank the engine and warm it up, however, and the fluid travels throughout the transmission and cooler, leaving much less in the sump.  Thus checking levels with the engine warm give an accurate reading of the tranny in the operating mode.  Checking cold gives an inaccurate, overfull reading.

Overfilling raises the fluid level in the sump, allowing moving parts to churn fluid into a milkshakey froth thereby lubricating said parts with a mix of oil and air rather than oil alone.  Overheating and mechanical damage result.

A quick tip. Once you correctly fill a hot transmission, shut the engine off, let the transmission cooler drain back into the tranny's sump, and pull the dipstick.  Then make a cold level mark - if there isn't one there already- with a small file.  In the future you'll be able to check the fluid levels without having to crank the engine."

But when I checked the J&T manual it said to check the level when the engine is cold and make sure the level is between lower and upper mark.  And it specifically said that you should allow time for all the oil to flow back into the pan.  Perhaps the dipsticks for the Twin Discs are callibrated cold.  So to resolve this conflict I went to the Twin Disc Service Manual.  Twin Disc is even more specific.  It says "The oil level must be checked [daily]  with the engine running at low idle.  The oil level must be between the the "Low" and "Full" marks on the gauge." The gauge in their parlance is the dipstick.

So I guess you set the oil level with the engine running at idle and then shut down the engine, wait for the oil to drip back into the sump and then make your mark.  That's pretty much what Bill said other than that they don't seem to care whether the oil is hot or cold.  That should be marked a + for Bill and a - for J&T.

Anyway post this message in the engine room for future reference.

Pete37



Edited by Pete37 on December 28 2007 at 22:55


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Pete37
"Commander"




Joined: November 12 2006
Posts: 2317
Posted: January 02 2008 at 16:06 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Guys,

Well, it's the beginning of winter when one has plenty of time to think about grandiose projects but fortunately, because of the weather, doesn't have to do anything about them.

My boat came with the Den/Guest cabin laid out as a Guest cabin only.  It contains a 62" wide double bed jammed against the starboard wall runing from the aft to the forward bulkhead.  The bed takes up 34 of the 48 sq. ft. of the cabin which leaves only 14 sq. ft. for other purposes.  The closet reduces that to a measly 10 sq. ft.  And even the remaining 10 sq. ft. is seriously compromised by the door opening clearances and storage drawers that pull out into the 10 sq. ft area.  In short the Guest Cabin is useless for anything other than a guest cabin. 

I guess that's all right if you need another guest cabin.  But, at last count, my boat has 10 beds and the maximum we have ever used in the past 14 years is four.  Certainly, it seems, I could afford to sacrifice one or perhaps two bunks for an office.

The original Den/Guest Cabin had two Pullman style bunks that flopped down from a recess in the forward bulkhead.  But based on the size of the recess they couldn't have been longer than 70" or wider than about 28".  And the mattresses couldn't have been thicker than 5".  Acceptable on a World War II troopship but definitely not up to 2007 Yacht standards.

Based of photos in the broker's ads I've noticed that most boats with a Den have eschewed the Pullman berths and have opted for a couch on the forward bulkhead.  This can presumably be used for seating during the day and as minimalistic bed in the evening.  Some have retained the upper Pullman berth but others have not.  

Along the after half of the starboard wall bookshelfs and a 36" high shelf have been built in for storage of office materials and as a place to lay out office materials.  The aft wall has a 62" x 23" shelf extending form the closet wall to the starboard bulkhead.  The AC is under the 33" closest to the closet and leaves essentially no knee room for a proper desk.  Nevertheless, this area is used as the platform for a computer keyboard and monitor.  In some cases the keyboard area is dropped by 6" to provide proper keyboard height.  Along the remaining length of the wall a set of storage drawers has been built in for storage of office materials.  The shelf which rests on top of the drawers is usually used as a place for a printer.

So what do I want to do with the Den/Guest Cabin?  Basically, I want to eliminate the 62" wide by 78" long double bed and use at least half of the 34 sq. ft. opened up for an office.  I would like to keep the other half for a daybed.  I will build (or have built) a shelf for the aft wall to provide a 23" wide x  62" long office table similar to those in the Den/Guest Cabin.  It will be mounted at the standard desk height of 28".  A keyboard notch at a height 24-25" (standard for keyboards) will be built into the forward face of this shelf.  A four drawer shelf will be built-in under the outboard end of this shelf.  A laptop computer and printer resting on the shelf will complete the office part of the cabin. 

The area opened up on the forward wall of the cabin will be filled with a 78" long by 30" wide couch.  This will leave an area 89" long by 24" wide down the center of the cabin for an office chair.

Anyway, those are the initial plans for my grandiose project.  Any comments?

Pete37



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Pete37
"Commander"




Joined: November 12 2006
Posts: 2317
Posted: January 02 2008 at 17:51 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Guys,

Here is a story written by Jack Horner which appeared in the January 2008 BoatUS Magazine.  Since it's about Connies and Connie ancestors I thought it might be interesting to you as Connie owners.  I called Elaine Dickinson, Managing Editor of BoatUS Magazine and she graciously granted permission for me to present it here on the forum.  But the permission doesn't extend to distribution elsewhere so if you want a copy please get it from the BoatUS ezine or some other source.

Pete37

BoatU.S. Magazine - January 2008

Second Time Around:

 

 

 

Pacemaker, Uniflite and Chris-Craft 46' Motoryacht

 

Why try to improve on one of the best looking and arguably most livable flush-deck motoryachts ever designed when you can have the real thing?  I suspect this might have been the logic when three prominent boatbuilders - one from the East Coast, one from the Midwest and one from the Pacific Northwest - combined efforts to keep this single design in production for 10 years.

 

Designed by Dave Martin for Pacemaker Yachts, the Pacemaker 46 was introduced in 1977. When Pacemaker went out of business in 1980, the molds were purchased by Uniflite Corporation of Bellingham, WA, who continued production as the Uniflite 46 until 1984 when market pressures forced Uniflite out of business. Uniflite's assets were then purchased by Chris-Craft which continued production as the 460 Constellation through 1986 when production was discontinued in favor of a "stretched" 50-foot version of the same vessel.

 

While the 46 had a somewhat convoluted history, except for a few minor style changes and power options, all three models were virtually identical. Length on deck is 46' 3" although the bow pulpit and transom-mounted swim platform, which were standard on all models, adds about five feet to the overall length. The beam is 15' 3" and draft is 4' 4". 

 

Generally, all three manufacturers were known for their high construction standards and for producing well-built boats. The hulls of all models were constructed of hand-laid fiberglass laminates and polyester resin and reinforced by fiberglass composite stringers, floors and frames. Osmotic blisters and age-related deterioration of fiberglass composites below the static waterline are issues common to nearly all aging fiberglass boats, although the severity of these problems can vary considerably depending on many factors including water temperature, salinity and time afloat, to name but a few. In most cases, properly done remedial repair of these age-related problems, although expensive, are quite successful and worthwhile.

 

However, a problem with severe laminate blisters, above as well as below the waterline, was one of the factors which contributed to Uniflite's demise. Although the condition did not affect all Uniflites, remedial repairs on problem boats have not been very successful. When considering a Uniflite, special care needs to be taken. If there is any evidence of blisters above the waterline, be certain to get an expert to evaluate the condition and assess the practicality of repair.

 

Decks and superstructure were all constructed of fiberglass composites utilizing balsa and plywood core for localized reinforcement and stiffening. When problems develop, they are typically around the installation of cabin windows and at the attachment of deck hardware and are quite repairable.

 

All of the 46s provide excellent on-deck arrangements whether you're hosting a raft-up party or just out for a family cruise. The flybridge, accessed by a ladder from the pilothouse, features a forward, centerline console and helm seat, molded bench seats to each side and a full-width bench seat across the back. The cabin top over the main saloon offers a molded-in bench seat forward and plenty of area for sunbathing. Wide side decks offer secure passage with side rails and grab rails on the cabin top. The foredeck and bow pulpit are convenient for anchor storage and line handling. 

 

While many flush-deck motoryachts have the after portion of their main deck enclosed with canvas and clear plastic, this model is unique for her size in that the pilothouse/aft deck is fully enclosed, teak-paneled, air-conditioned and often serves as the main saloon for owners and guests.

 

Below deck there is a head and shower forward followed by a stateroom to port, with upper and lower berths and a laundry with washer and dryer to starboard. On the same level, there is a large galley to starboard and then up two steps to the formal, main saloon. There is no built-in furniture so it's owner's choice as to what goes where. The cabin sole of the saloon is removable to provide better-than-usual access to the machinery space below. Further aft and down three steps, there is a small starboard stateroom with an athwartship settee and small desk. The area is typically a liveaboard's office but the settee converts to upper and lower berths to accommodate guests in a pinch. To starboard is a large head and shower.

 

The master stateroom is all the way aft with a centerline queen berth and mirror-image hanging lockers, bureaus and bookshelves to port and starboard.

 

Pacemaker models were powered by 435-hp General Motors 8V-71 diesel engines while Uniflite and Chris-Craft models were powered by 410-hp General Motors 6-71 diesels. Either are good power choices for this type of boat, although the larger engines provide a higher top speed. In reality, this is a boat built for comfort, not speed, and although 18 to 20 knots is possible, a comfortable and economic cruise will be in the range of 12 to 15 knots. On the subject of comfort, one of the more desirable options is roll-stabilizing fins. Boats without stabilizers typically sell for $8,000 to $10,000 less than those with them.

 

In mid-November, I found 11 boats offered for sale at several web sites. As might be expected, the lowest asking price of $99,000 was for a Pacemaker and the highest of $228,000 was for a Chris-Craft. There were 10 sales reported on the soldboat.com site ranging from a low of $113,000 for a 1978 Pacemaker to a high of $205,000 for a 1986 Chris-Craft.

 

More than 30 years after the first 46 model was introduced, popularity among liveaboard boat owners and cruisers remains high and that's not likely to change in the near future.

 

By Jack Hornor

Copyright Jack Hornor, Marine Survey & Design Co.

Reprinted with permission of Jack Hornor and BoatU.S. Magazine

 



Edited by Pete37 on January 02 2008 at 18:18


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INTERLUDE
A Murray Chris Craft Constellation 500
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Fantasy
"Navigator"




Joined: November 30 2006
Posts: 324
Posted: January 02 2008 at 19:26 | IP Logged Quote Fantasy

Pete,  I used the den as an office for several years.  I kept a laptop on the keyboard height desk, a printer to the left of the laptop and a fax/phone on the starboard side counter.

I found that arrangement adequate but more recently I've opted to have my laptop mounted on a drawer platform on the lower helm console.  I appreciate the light and open-air; the den is a bit claustrophobic over time.  I haven't done it yet but I plan to run a printer cable below to the den.  For me, having the hardware and reference books below, while I'm on deck, is the best of both worlds.

By the way, on my 46 and the 50's I've seen, only the upper den berth is a Pullman.  The lower couch is built in.  The couch back is removable and stows in a cabinet under the seat, along with the side pillows (arms) of the couch.  This makes the couch berth somewhat wider and longer than you describe.  For us, it's only the grandkids that endure the 5" mattress and they don't seem to mind.

I also installed a full wall mirror on the bottom panel of the upper Pullman.  This really helps to give the room width.

I think if I had your layout, I'd be tempted to turn it into a nice workshop rather than an office.  I guess we always want what we don't have:)

John



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"Fantasy"
460 Chris Craft Constellation
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Pete37
"Commander"




Joined: November 12 2006
Posts: 2317
Posted: January 02 2008 at 20:43 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi John,

My problem is that the guest cabin was built without any computer shelf on the aft wall.  And even if it had one I'd have to sit on top of the bed to use it.  So the first thing to do is to remove the double bed.  Then I'll build the shelf and cabinetry that's on the aft wall.  I'll do a mock up myself for fit but the final product will be done by a cabinet maker.

That done, I'll have to find a suitable couch.  I've looked around but haven't found anything suitable yet.  If you have the dimensions of your couch and perhaps the manufacturer's name I can check it to see if it's compatible with my setup.  It probably is from what you say.  I really don't give a damn about the upper Pullman berth.  We have ten berths now and loosing one isn't going to make any difference.

A second layout that seems to make sense is to cut the present bed in two lengthwise making it a single 31" wide x 78" long berth and a bunch of scrap plywood.  That berth would be pushed up against the starboard bulkhead and the present underberth cabinetry reinstalled underneath it. The cabinetry is only 20" deep so there is plenty of room.  Having the berth against the starboard bulkhead eliminates most of the bookshelves and cabinetry on the starboard wall of a standard den layout but my boat doesn't have any and I'm not sure I want to pay for it anyway.

This leaves most of the forward wall and inboard wall unencumbered for a workbench.  This would be a gentleman's workbench.  I don't intend to do welding, plumbing or heavy duty carpentry in the den but it would be suitible for light duty stuff like fixing electronics, etc.

I figure I can get a 52" long by 24" wide workbench into the forward inboard corner of the den.  And there could be a dozen storage drawers underneath.  When not in use as a workbench it could be a place to lay out papers and books related to what I may be doing on the computer.  The computer printer would go on the aft wall in the same place as you have yours.  One nice feature of the workbench is that it can be perfectly rectangular (a rarity in boats) making it cheap to produce and/or easy to buy.

Another, nice feature, of this layout is that I have all of the components except for the shelf on the aft wall (which I am going to have to make regardless of what layout I use) and the workbench (which I can make or buy any time I choose).  My plan would be to modify the bed first, then fabricate the computer shelf for the aft wall and finally take care of the workbench.  Or perhaps I'll just put in a Lazyboy rather than a workbench.

Well, so far the plans seem to be working spendidly.  But I have a hunch that as time goes on glitches will develop.

Pete37



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Delaware Jim
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Joined: December 27 2006
Posts: 381
Posted: January 02 2008 at 20:45 | IP Logged Quote Delaware Jim

Pete,

On your "grand Plan" for the "office area", I'm a bit confused on a couple of points... you started by stating you have ample berthing without the Den/office berths, but then you say you want to keep a sofa/single berth in the area.  If I were going to make an office for DAILY working, I believe I'd eliminate the sofa/single berth completely and focus on a comfortable size desk area, computer and printer locations.  Then as much storage (preferably drawers versus open shelves). Do you use the closet in that area for hanging clothes?  If not, adding shelves or sliding wire basket drawers would provide lots of storage for paper,  office supplies and the like.

The other thing is your description of the AC location.  From your description, it sounds like the AC unit is about equidistant between the starboard hull and the closet behind the door swing... is this accurate?  My boat has the AC tucked up against the starboard hull (almost to the exhaust pipe), which leaves space for a 27" wide dropped desk and kneeroom between it and the closet.  This is suitable for my laptop, but does not for any significant working room on either side for laying out documents while working.  Definately NOT a daily desk arrangement.  I believe on the later Connies that have the master head on the starboard side the AC unit was in the floor of the office closet.  If your AC is indeed more or less centered, perhaps a relocation of it could gain some needed space.

One last thought: what about a fold down desktop out from the forward bulkheadl (where the pullman berth/sofas are in many boats)?  Imagine two low sitting units with a 30" opening in the center for your legs, with a fold down desktop beginning a few inches out from the bulkhead.  In the fixed area against the bulkhead would be space for the the computer monitor (flatscreen), keyboard and printer.  You pull out the keyboard and monitor to comfortable positions while working, then push them back and fold the desk top up.  You have two sitting units - "chairs"- to sit in and watch TV or read.  Finally, you could use the "convertable dinette" idea to fill in the kneehole area between the two seating units and make a "marginably suitable" berth for the once in a blue moon large crowd...  I can see a 65' x 30" desktop with about 30" depth for an office chair before running into the aft bulkhead.  I'll see if I can sketch out this idea so you have some visual reference...

Hope these ideas are of some help.  I kinda like your thoughts and now you have me thinking about it some as well!  

Delaware Jim

 



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Pete37
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Joined: November 12 2006
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Posted: January 02 2008 at 20:59 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Jim,

Just got your post but don't have much time to work on it now.  Yes I do have ample berthing and the thought of ditching both of the berths in the Den has come to mind.  Howver, I kind of like the idea of having a day bed in the Den on which to take a quick nap without messing up the master cabin or being interrupted while I'm napping.  But that isn't a major requirement so perhaps the den could be devoid of all sleeping accomodations.

You're right.  I could use the closet solely for storage.  Hadn't thought much about that.

As to the location of the AC unit.  In my boat it lies in a cabinet about 23" deep directly outboard of the closet.  And it extends about 33" toward the starboard side of the boat.

Have to break now.  Will finish this later.

Back again:

Normal height for a keyboard desk is 24-25" so you don't need to cut out a section for your knees on your folding desk.  Most people's knees easily fit under a 24" high desk (unless you are a professional basketball star).  This is also a good height for writing and laying out reference material.  So your folding table doesn't need a notch for your knees.  The keyboard and monitor can be stored elsewhere and set up on the table as needed.  That makes for a very simple fold up table arrangement which could be built into the recess used for the Pullman berths.  And the table can be used for other purposes when the computer is not in use.

About 24" wide is reasonable and the length can be whatever you wan't. A 70" long by 30" wide table could probably be easily handled if necessary.  But of course, hinging the table doesn't do much good if you are going to have other items underneath it anyway.

Printers are heavier and would want to be fastened to a fixed horizontal surface somewhere else in the cabin.  The printer cable can easily be run under the floor to wherever the printer is mounted.

But I sort of like the idea of having all the components ready to go without any setup.  Even with a portable laptop there are a bunch of wires (power, power transformer, modem, mouse, printer, external drives, etc.) which must be hooked up and it's a pain to do that every time you want to use the computer.  The table could have hinged and unhinged sections so that the computer, keyboard and monitor would remain fixed while the other surface would be used only for writing materials, etc.  But you would still have to clean up all your stuff and remove some of the wires every time you wanted to stow the table away.

My sketches indicate that the computer desk on the aft wall would be about 23" deep by 36" long.  This would allow 18" of length to be used for the computer and the other 18" for books and writing materials.  This is not as much as you would like for a full time office but is plenty for an occasional use only setup.  For the rare cases where you have papers scattered all over (like income tax time) they can be thrown on the bed or other tables in the den.  The printer would be mounted elsewhere in the den since you only have to access it occasionally.  I normally use a swivel office chair when sitting at a computer and in this case it would be near the center of the den so I can reach just about anything in the den by just swiveling in my chair.

We have three TV sets in the boat now so I really don't need another TV set.  But TV is switching to digital in about a year so I will probably be buying a couple of small (17") flat panel digital TVs next year.  These are quite portable so if I feel the need to watch TV in the den berth I can just bring one in from another cabin.

This job isn't done yet and there are probably three or four more configurations I will try before selecting the final solution.  So thanks for the ideas and I welcome all new suggestions you may have.  I'll have to look more into the benefits of getting rid of all the bunks in the den.  The one remaining bunk uses up about 16 sq. ft. which is more than 1/3rd of the total space in the den.  What would I use that 16 sq. ft. for if I removed the bed? 

Maybe I should remove the bunk, put in a Lazyboy and use the extra space for a more complete computer setup.  I'll make up some more layout drawings.  Or I could put in a whole bunch of storage shelves.  Or maybe a Coca Cola vending machine!  Now if I could just figure a way to dig a celler below the den that would open a whole new realm of possibilities

Pete37



Edited by Pete37 on January 03 2008 at 01:05


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Fantasy
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Posted: January 02 2008 at 21:30 | IP Logged Quote Fantasy

Pete, my den couch is an original equipment built-in unit.

If you are thinking of adding a stand alone couch, I'd suggest looking at Flexsteel or Villa.  They offer many configurations and sizes that can easily be brought on board.  I recently replaced the upper and lower salon furniture with Flexsteel (upper=sectional with recliners, lower=couch with drawer storage) and I'm happy with it.

Here's a link:

http://www.braddandhall.com/default.asp

John



Edited by Sonja Lowe on June 11 2014 at 11:35


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Posted: January 03 2008 at 08:56 | IP Logged Quote Fantasy

Pete, It's difficult to visualize how your den is arranged.  Is this the set-up?

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/photoGallery.jsp??acc ess=Public&currency=USD&listing_id=5224&units=Fe et&boat_id=1565248&back=boatDetail.jsp&boat_id=1 565248

John



Edited by Sonja Lowe on June 11 2014 at 11:38


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Pete37
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Posted: January 03 2008 at 18:03 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi John,

No, that's not the way my den is set up and I don't think I have ever seen another Connie in the broker's ads that has a den set up the way mine is.

If you walk in the door to the den and face the starboard wall you will be standing with your right side next to the closet.  The double bed starts about two feet into the den and occupies the entire room except for a 2 foot wide strip along the inboard wall and the closet.  About half of this space is used up to allow for door clearance.  The double bed is aligned fore and aft and there is a large mirror on the forward wall in what was the recess for the drop down Pullmans.  However, I don't think that this boat ever had Pullman berths. 

There is nothing in the den except this large 62" wide by 78" long double bed.  No chairs, no desks, no couches or anything else except for a row of cabinets used for storage near the top of the aft wall.

As far as I can tell this was the original set up.  The cabinetry matches the rest of the boat perfectly and does not look like an aftermarket add on.  The bed has a rather thin styrofoam mattress which isn't very comfortable.  I slept in the den one night just to see what it was like and woke up with a sore back.  We store some linens and things in the cabinets but other than that it's useless space. 

Thats why I want to modify it.  Almost anything I do has got to be an improvement.

Pete37



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TStellato
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Posted: January 04 2008 at 09:17 | IP Logged Quote TStellato


We use every bit of the boat, except for the den.  It holds papers and junk.  I have the same setup as Jim with having a shelf that I could slide under, but it's the dark dingy room. Our original couch was taken out by the previous owners and they moved the pullman berth down to take the place of the couch.  The storage under it is nice as a live aboard, but I would love to have the room function better.  The only thing I like in there is the closet to hold the vacuum cleaner and ironing board.  I do keep the printer in there, but sit at the dining table with my laptop.

If you gutted the room and put shelves on the top quarter of the walls, it would free up the bottom space for whatever you wanted.  It would also allow a future owner to confiqure the room to their personal needs if whatever you put in there could be taken out or moved around.  If this forum is an indication of most owners, then most of us are empty nesters and really only need the forward stateroom for guests.  I did use the den for my granddaughter but she was on her Dora the Explorer blowup bed on the floor.  I am sure that she will use the couch area when she gets bigger if her parents are in the forward stateroom.

It's freezing on Back Creek and the winds blew out all the water yesterday.  Tide was down about 8 feet.  Boats were hanging in their slips.  Winds died down last night and the tide came back up.  We moved to Annapolis Landing Marina this month.  The South River was nice but we really like boating on the Severn better.  Nice part about ALM is that the electric is included in the slip fee, so we are staying very warm!  We ended up with the small West Marine heaters in the upper salon, and each of the heads.  2 oil filled heaters in the engine room and the reverse cycle in the lower salon.  When the water cools, I have a propane heater and another small heater for that area.  Tony gets to escape to Florida on Saturday, but I think that I am in good shape.  The water hose is heat taped so I don't even have to go out to refill the tank.  Looking forward to a short vacation next month to meet him in the Keys!




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Pete37
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Posted: January 04 2008 at 10:30 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Tony & Vicki,

Can't remember which marina is Annapolis Landing Marina.  Will have to look it up.  The South River can be pretty lonely in the winter.

The den has an area of 48.2 sq. ft with the closet and about 44 sq. ft. without it.  That sounds like a lot of space on a boat but it's only slightly more than 1/3rd the size of our bathroom at home.  It really isn't suitable for sleeping two.  As I've said before the Pullmans might be acceptable on a World War II troopship but definitely aren't acceptable on a yacht.

My boat is the only one I've ever seen that can actually sleep two comfortably in the den.  But the double bed totally monopolizes the room and it is useless for anything else.   No one seems to want to sleep in it.  It's claustrophobic.

There isn't even enough room in the den to dress.  And if the person on the outboard side of the bed wants to get out he has to crawl over the person on the inboard side.

I've already have ten berths and could certainly spare one or perhaps two. If I were a liveaboard, I would tear everything out, put up shelves and use it as a storage room.  But I'm not.  My wife Arlene, and I have the luxury of storing a lot of the boating crap at home.  I built a 22' x 12' loft over the garage specifically for storing crap.

At present, all the stuff that doesn't have a specific storage location on the boat winds up on the forward berths.  I would like to clear that out so we have at least one decent stateroom for guests.  The den might the ticket.  But there is a saying that the more space you have to store crap, the more crap you will store.  I don't want my boat to turn into a floating garbage dump.

I'm heavily into computers and would like to have a computer station on the boat.  I'll probably be using my laptop but I want to be able to use it without having to set it up every time I use it.  There are are a lot of cables including a power cable, a power transformer cable, a cable for the external drives, a cable for the external keyboard, a mouse cable, a printer cable, a power cable for the printer, etc.  Setting that up every time I want to write a letter is a pain.  Plus I have to gather up all my reference materials, my pencils, my pads, my calculator, etc.  So I've decided a computer station in the den is a must. 

I kind of like the idea of having a daybed.  A place where I can catch 40 winks during the day without being interrupted and without messing up one of the staterooms.  So I'd like to keep one bunk in the den if possible. 

I've done about six layouts so far and like the one which gives me a single bunk, a computer table and a workbench in the forward inboard corner of the den.  The workbench would have considerable storage under it and the closet could also probably be used for storage.  We have enough closet space for two in the master stateroom (that wouldn't be true if we were liveaboards).  If I ditch the bunk I would recover about 16 sq. ft. of area for storage.  But there are storage drawers under the bunk so I get some storage in that area.

Fortunately this is winter, so I don't have to commit myself to any action until spring.  I can plan & replan this thing all I want until some time in March.  One thing I've decided is that I want to keep the room looking like a professionally designed cabin built and installed by Chris Craft.  I don't want anything that looks like a "Rube Goldberg".  We'll see if what I want is what I get.  I hope so.

Congratulations on your new location.  I went down to the boat yesterday and had to climb down from the dock to get into the boat.  The water was 6' below the dock and it was COLD!!! 

Keep warm,

Pete37

 



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David Ross
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Posted: January 04 2008 at 16:55 | IP Logged Quote David Ross

Pete, Tony & Vicki and others regarding the den,

I have the "standard" den set up with the lower couch, upper pullman, desk and chair and closet on the immediate right as you enter (with the a/c unit in closet bottom). Pete, I'm surprised at the differances in our boats with mine being the next one built after yours. You along with Tony and Vicki have a lot of options in your renovations. I have found our den a great set up. When the back cushion is removed from the coach the bed portion is recessed into the wall a bit and is not that bad of a bed. The pullman is ok. We have had adults sleep there (they even came back). Our grandkids love the bunk beds. It can be used as an adjunct off the master state room, if one wants to read, watch tv or doesn't feel well while the other sleeps. Also a nice place for a nap.  It makes a good office as is with space for a computer and accessories. We have at times just used it for storage and as a big closet. Drop  the pullman and you have an instant shelve. Not very big for a full time stateroom but very versatile. Good luck to you both in your redesigns.

Dave

 



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Delaware Jim
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Posted: January 04 2008 at 20:38 | IP Logged Quote Delaware Jim

Pete,

Sounds like you have a number of options on the table... good luck in sorting through them and getting the arrangement you want.  We are now live aboards like Tony and Vicki, and can appreciate the comments about "space attracts crap"

Vicki, Glad you and Tony are keeping warm.  There was skim ice in the Inner Harbor today (temp 13), we are using the lower salon and one of the upper salon heat pumps, with a space heater in the aft cabin on low power at that heat pump has died, and a oil filled electric heater in the bilge (also on low power) which is keeping it about 55 degrees. Warming trend coming!

Delaware Jim



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Pete37
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Posted: January 05 2008 at 01:29 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Dave,

I think the den layout was an owner option and Chris Craft built whatever the owner asked for.  The layout, I'm planning is similar to the standard layout and one of my layouts is nearly identical.

The closet will stay where and as it is identical to yours except that the AC won't be mounted in it.  I've considered moving the AC but it looks like a lot of work.  The computer desk will be outboard of the closet on the aft wall the same as yours. 

Because the AC is under the computer desk kneeroom isn't what it might be but that can be compensated for with a slide out keyboard tray.  The length of the computer desk will be about 36" with a width of 22 to 24".  Pretty similar to yours. 

In Plan A, the bunk will run along the forward wall of the den and be 78" long by about 28" wide  If I partly recess it into the wall it could be as much as 34" wide.  There are two problems with this plan.  The first is that the forward wall is 89" wide which leaves an embarrassing 11" gap at either the head or foot of the bed.  But this could be filled in with a storage cabinet. 

The bed would consist of half of the existing double bed turned 90 degrees counterclockwise and mounted against the forward wall in the position of the lower Pullman of the standard CC Design.  There is nothing to prevent an upper Pullman from being installed on the forward wall but I don't intend to do so.  In my opinion, the headroom is inadequate in the upper Pullman although CC seems to get away with it.  The existing under bed storage drawers and their cabinetry would be used.

One problem with this layout is that the ailse between the bed and the computer desk/closet on th aft wall is only about 28" wide which while marginally adequate tends to be claustrophobic. And the computer chair which must be in this aisle is constantly in the way.  This could be alleviated if I moved the AC into the closet but then I would lose about half of the closet. 

Another problem is that while the bunk makes a great bed it is a lousy couch.  Even if I added a back, the bed is too high to be a couch.  But, I don't really know why I need another couch.  I'm not going to entertain people in my den.  A set of drawers and shelf would have to be added to the aft outboard corner of the den to complete th computer station.  That would have to be custom cabinetry work and would be rather expensive.  Nevertheless, this is a feasible setup and an upper Pullman could be added later if anyone chose to do so.  Theoretically the den could be classified as a double berth cabin which is an important selling point.

Plan B is nearly the same as Plan A except that the lower bunk on the forward wall would be some sort of Futon or small studio couch.  But so far I haven't been able to find one that fits.  The under bunk cabinetry could perhaps be used on the starboard wall to provide extra storage.  The details of how to fit in the cabinetry haven't been fully worked out yet.

Plan C is to place half of the double bed on the starboard wall.  The length of this wall (78") is perfect for a bed and the existing under bed storage drawers  and cabinetry can easily be reused providing a reasonably "finished" look to the den.  This bunk would be about 30" wide.  The length of the bunk plus computer table plus closet work out to 89" which is the length of the aft wall.  No expensive cabinetry would be required in the aft starboard corner of the den.

Plan C leaves the forward inboard corner of the cabin empty.  I figure I can get a 60" long by 32" deep workbench or a huge set of storage cabinets on this wall  And since this is a completely rectangular space it may be possible to obtain a mass produced piece of furniture. 

A large piece of storage furniture on this wall would, however, preclude the installation of an upper Pullman berth.  And of course there is the problem of getting this large piece of furniture into the den.  It would probably have to be disassembled and then reassembled in the den.  But the possibility of having additional storage and/or a workbench intrigues me and so far this plan has been my favorite.

Plans D, E, F... have been thought of but aren't far enough along to discuss now.

Pete37



Edited by Pete37 on January 05 2008 at 01:37


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David Ross
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Posted: January 05 2008 at 12:35 | IP Logged Quote David Ross

Pete,

As time goes on I see how many options Chris Craft offered. I always thought the fly bridge came with full seating, bar and sink, etc. until it was mentioned awhile back. I also thought the den came as mine was set up on all the boats.

You have given your update a lot of thought. With all those ideas I am sure you will come up with the right plan for you.

Dave



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Pete37
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Posted: January 05 2008 at 13:42 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Dave,

Yes, I'm giving it a lot of thought.  I'm working on two new plans.  Plan D involves a bunk along the forward wall with a filler piece across the aisle to provide an increase in width of the bunk of about 24".  This provides a 78" long by 55" wide double bed.  It works out all right except that the bottom (toe end) of the filler piece would have to be notched by about 6" to allow the door to open.  But it still gives a second berth with an average length of 72".  The cost is relatively low but it doesn't allow for a workbench or storage cabinet.  The bunk would be useable as a couch.

Plan E is just Plan D but without the filler piece.  It's nearly the same as the standard CC plan and allows the bunk to be several inches wider if desired. But the second bunk would have to be a Pullman.  It's probably the cheapest plan yet since I doubt I'll bother to install a Pullman.  But the option for a Pullman is still there.

One problem with installing a Pullman is that the original CC Pullmans were hinged to the wall with straps from the ceiling to support the outer ends.  But installing hooks in the ceiling now would be a mess since it involves cutting into the headliner.  I don't want to do that.  So the Pullman would have to be supported by temporary posts which would be removed when the Pullman is stored away.  But they have to be done right.  You don't want them collapsing in the middle of the night.  I'll worry about that if I ever install a Pullman.

I want the bunk to be 78" ;ong because that's about the length for a normal bed.  The forward wall is 89" long which is quite adequate but leaves a gap of 11" between the bed and the walls.  The simplest way of eliminating this gap seems to be installing permanent arms (about 4" thick) at each end of the bed and letting the bed plus arms extend from the inboard wall to the starboard wall.  I'm not sure whether that's the way CC did it because I haven't been able to find any photos of forward inboard corner of the den.  The combination couch/bunks CC installed are shown as up against the starboard wall but I don't know whether they exteneded to the inboard wall or not.

In Plan E there's a lot of storage space under the bunk but no possibility of a workbench or storage cabinet.  If I use this plan I think I'll remove the existing double bunk first, install the new single couch/bunk and then work on the computer station last.  In looking at some of the broker's photos of the computer station in the den it seems as though the computer shelf is not as wide as I had been planing.  I looks as though it is about 18" wide rather than 24" wide.  Hard to tell from the photos.

Pete37



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Monopoly1954
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Posted: January 05 2008 at 14:44 | IP Logged Quote Monopoly1954

Hi Pete,

I have been following your project and have a question about your Pullman latches. In my boat the latches have chrome round flat knobs that turn and retract the pin.

If you have the same set up would you know where to get some replacements. One of the Pullman latches is broken and the latch to the aft cabin closet is the same and that is broken also.

When I purchased this 500 in 11-03 the third stateroom was a dressing room. The couch was removed and a  clothing rack system was installed above the  base of the  couch . the  book cases were converted to shoe racks.  It is now back to stock. I used the  office for a short period of time. I had a desktop computer, printer, flat screen to do my work. I could not fine a comfortable seat to work from and the desk was to low, to small, and not enough sunlight. I now use the dinette table to do my work.

I have to run more later



Corey






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Pete37
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Posted: January 05 2008 at 15:50 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Corey,

Pullmans were never installed in my den so I have no information on them.  But just about everything that's in a Connie was purchased from an outside vender.  Thats why I keep dozens of catalogs from various marine parts manufacturers. 

If I remember correctly, you asked me about the slide bolt latch on the aft cabin closet before.  I removed mine to see what it was like but couldn't find any manufacturers ID code on it and didn't find anything that resembled it in my catalogs.

Perhaps someone else has an answer.  You may have to adapt some other lock to your application.

Pete37



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Fantasy
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Posted: January 05 2008 at 16:30 | IP Logged Quote Fantasy

Pete,

You might consider a work bench or counter running fore and aft on the outboard wall, just above the exhaust tube.  This would enable you to run the width of the counter top all the way to the hull and the length from the fore to the aft wall.  You could also provide a recess under the exhaust tube for a toe kick.  There should be enough clearance for three deep drawers just under the counter and above the exhaust.  Although there is not much flare to the hull in that section, what is there would help you make the counter wider while minimizing interior space lost to the exhaust tube.

There could still be enough room for counters on the forward and aft walls or a counter and bed arrangement.

John



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David Ross
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Posted: January 05 2008 at 17:23 | IP Logged Quote David Ross

Hi corey,

I saw your request for info on the pullman latch. I have never seen a spare or any info on one but will keep my eye out. While I have you attention I left a message for you around Dec 16th. I believe you mentioned awhile back you installed 45 degree elbos on the exhaust outlets. I believe you used rubber exhaust hose not stainless and said you did not notice any differance in the transom soot. I am surprised the elbos with the side slip stream did not help to eliminate at least some of the soot.  I wonder if you added a few inches of extension to them if this would help push the exhaust into the slip stream and cut down on the station wagon effect?? Did you try to angle them more toward the water? How bad is your soot problem? Does it vary? Did you catch the conversation that it appears only the later 1986 and after 500's have this situation? Thanks for any info you have.

Dave

Dave



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Furman1
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Posted: January 05 2008 at 18:00 | IP Logged Quote Furman1

To all:

I've been thinking about saving fuel while traveling. My boat is set up right now to reach 2350 at wot.  If I had the pitch on my props changed to get a bigger bite per revolution, would that make the boat go faster at say 1000 rpm versis what it would do now.  In other words, at the same rpm would the boat go faster thus increasing miles per gallon?

I  know I wouldn't be able to reach 2350 but I'm not running at that rpm anyway



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Fantasy
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Posted: January 05 2008 at 19:20 | IP Logged Quote Fantasy

Hey Furman,

Your boat might go faster at the same RPM but it would take more throttle to maintain that RPM.  So, you would not save any fuel.

In essence, you would be overloading the engine, which is inefficient and hard on the machinery.

John



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Pete37
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Posted: January 05 2008 at 20:13 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Furman,

Basically, if your props are somewhat near properly sized for your boat, nothing you do to the pitch is going to improve the efficiency of your boat.  Let's assume you have 30" dia props with a 30" pitch and your Bp value is 16.  More about the Bp constant later.  Your Pitch Ratio (PR) is the ratio of the pitch to diameter and in this case is 1.0.  This by the way is called a square prop and is near the point of optimum efficiency (near I said, not exactly at).

For those conditions your prop efficiency is 0.630.  Suppose you local propeller bender convinces you to increase you pitch by 5% (to 31.5").  Now you propeller efficiency is 0.625.  You've lost about 0.5% efficiency.  Hardly noticeable.  But then you realize that was the wrong thing to do and so you have him rebend your props to a PR of 0.95 (to 28.5").  Now you have a propeller efficiency of 0.634.  You've gained 0.4%.  Again the change is hardly noticeable.

But the important thing is that the propeller bender has gained several thousand dollars for four bendings (2 props, 2 bends each) and yet the improvement in efficiency so small you can't even detect it.  That's why every propeller bender in the country will tell you I'm dead wrong and don't know what I'm talking about.

Bp by the way is the square root of the brake horsepower (Bhp) times the RPM divided by the velocity of the boat in knots to the 2.5 power.  If you don't understand that go to Table 30, page 281 of Basic Naval Architecture by Barnaby.  Barnaby gives the most complete description of efficiency that I have seen but unfortunately is out of print.  Dave Gerr in the Propeller Handbook (still in print) says about the same thing in Table 5-6 on page 58.  Gerr says for a slip ratio of 0.25 (typical for a Connie) changing the PR by 50% (from 1.0 to 1.5) changes the efficiency by 5%.  That corresponds to a 0.5% change in efficiency for a PR change of 5% or almost exactly what Barnaby predicts.

Don't jump to the conclusion that a 50% increase in pitch would be a good thing.  That would make the pitch 45", you would need an entirely new prop and even with that prop you probably couldn't get your engines over 1200 rpm.  Efficiency has nothing to do with maximum horsepower.

Increasing diameter, does increase efficiency but only slowly.  I evaluated the equations for the diameter of maximum efficiency once and found out that the optimum prop would have a diameter of about 6' (yes six feet).  I doubt that you could get that under your boat.  For a Connie the max prop diameter is probably about 32" and you might expect an increase in efficiency of 1 percent.  It's not worth the trouble. 

Now, I'm going to sit back and listen to 100 reasons why I am wrong.  I've never met a gambler who tells me he looses.  They all tell me they win.  But for every winner there must be a looser.  And I've never met someone who has had his prop repitched who doesn't tell me it made a big improvement.  I think this is wishful thinking necessary to bolster the bendees ego. 

In your case, you are slightly underpropped meaning that your propeller horsepower curve doesn't meet the engine horsepower curve until after the point of maximum horsepower.  You might get a slight improvement in horsepower by lengthening the pitch but the efficiency change would be negligible.

Pete27



Edited by Pete37 on January 05 2008 at 20:23


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vanphill
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Posted: January 05 2008 at 21:21 | IP Logged Quote vanphill


I assume that as everyone here is a member of BoatUS you all each get the BoatUS magazine.  As soon as you uncover the latest January 2008 issue flip to page 52.  There is an article in the 2nd time around on the Pacemaker to Uniflite to Chris-Craft 46' MY.  Sorry it stopped short of my 500 Connie, but it is still worth saving!

Van Phillips
Ark Angel


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Lafayette, Indiana

Slipped in St Joseph, Michigan
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Pete37
"Commander"




Joined: November 12 2006
Posts: 2317
Posted: January 05 2008 at 22:54 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Van,

I think we covered the BoatUS article a few days ago and published it on this forum.  But it's good to hear from you again and I hope your health is good.  Glad to hear you still read the forum.

Pete37



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INTERLUDE
A Murray Chris Craft Constellation 500
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Pete37
"Commander"




Joined: November 12 2006
Posts: 2317
Posted: January 05 2008 at 23:09 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi John,

The original CC den layout has a shelf running along the starboard wall but it's intended more as an adjunct to the computer station than as a workbench.  I've thought about it but it involves too much custom cabinetry work which translates into very high cost.  I can do mockup and fit test cabinetry but I have to leave the true cabinetry to the cabinet makers.  But keep the ideas coming.

Thanks,

Pete37



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INTERLUDE
A Murray Chris Craft Constellation 500
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TStellato
"Deckhand"




Joined: August 12 2007
Posts: 206
Posted: January 06 2008 at 08:42 | IP Logged Quote TStellato


Pete,

One thought to your bed in that room.  What about laying it as you walk into the room on the left where everyone else has it, but making it a skinny couch with the same foam on the back and then you slide it open to make a oversized twin using the back cushions as filler.  Like the RV's and camping trailers have.  You would have the floor space during working and then be able to still classify it as a "double" for sleeping.  It you put your bench/desk on the wall with the closet and had a raised shelf on the outward starboard wall then someone sleeping would lie their heads from port to starboard and their feet would be under this shelf area.

Also you talked about the door to the den being in the way.  We have a pocket door to that room.  It slides inbetween the wall for the hallway and the closet wall. I am sending you a link to our photo album for the boat.  I have a picture of the den bed on it.  It seems to be the way most of the boats were done, except that there used to be a couch there instead of the pullman berth that we have.  The place where the pullman was is 2 very small storage areas behind the sliding doors.  Not much use except for shoving skinny stuff in there.


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Tony and Vicki
FIVE STAR
1985 Constellation
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Furman1
"Deckhand"




Joined: November 27 2006
Posts: 227
Posted: January 06 2008 at 08:50 | IP Logged Quote Furman1

Pete, Why not have a double bed pullman on the left as you enter the room. In that way you have a completly clear floor when the bed is not needed. It would be set at the height of a normal bed when in use. You could have legs that are hinged and swing out to support the bed and not have it supported from the ceiling.

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Furman
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Monopoly1954
"Deckhand"




Joined: July 02 2007
Posts: 107
Posted: January 06 2008 at 12:31 | IP Logged Quote Monopoly1954

Hi Dave,

I did install rubber elbows. They were about 80.00 each. They are 45 degree
elbows exhaust outlets. I did not notice  any difference in the transom soot.

They replaced home depot vent 45 degree tubes that did not work, either.

I intend to try a couple of different positions this year. I want to try down or more out. I have not notice any difference from the  before and after.

After reading some of the posts, I suspect my boat may have other problems. This spring I intend to spend money. I am going to have the props done, check the injectors and have the props adjusted to a lesser pitch, then I want to check the valve  mentioned in one of the posts a few weeks ago.  I am not getting the 2350 RPM's out of the  engines, stb is 2250 and port is 2075.
I am hoping this will cure the problem. The next trick I want to try is to extend the tubes away from the boat or closer to the water, which ever works better

Two hours of run time at cruise speed and the stern is black. A couple of hours at 1200 RPM and the stern might or might not be soot filled. I think it has to due with the direction of the wind.

I think if any of us find a solution the rest of us would be very grateful. This problem is like a curse.

You get use to the problem but never like it

Corey




 



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Corey Finkelstein
Monopoly1954@hotmail.com
MONOPOLY
1986 Chriscraft 500
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Monopoly1954
"Deckhand"




Joined: July 02 2007
Posts: 107
Posted: January 06 2008 at 12:40 | IP Logged Quote Monopoly1954

Hi Pete,

We all use our boats differently. I have been reading the posts about the 3rd cabin. The last post was very interesting

"Pete, Why not have a double bed pullman on the left as you enter the room. In that way you have a completly clear floor when the bed is not needed. It would be set at the height of a normal bed when in use. You could have legs that are hinged and swing out to support the bed and not have it supported from the ceiling."

If sleeping berths are important that is a great idea. I have never used either berth. This has given me the idea to remove the couch and replace it with a cabinet of draws to store tools and have a work bench above the cabinet. I would still have the pullman for a 9th berth. I am always looking for more space to store tools and equipment. I never have enough work space. This might be the solution to fix both. It would still afford the space for the office setup.

I think I might do a blueprint when I return to the boat on Tuesday. If I come up with a blueprint I'll email it to you.


Corey


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Corey Finkelstein
Monopoly1954@hotmail.com
MONOPOLY
1986 Chriscraft 500
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Furman1
"Deckhand"




Joined: November 27 2006
Posts: 227
Posted: January 06 2008 at 12:47 | IP Logged Quote Furman1

Corey, You might want to check both of the filters on each engine the recor and the secondary on the engine itself.  Black smoke is sometimes lack of air so you might want to check the air filters and make sure their not blocked.

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Furman
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Monopoly1954
"Deckhand"




Joined: July 02 2007
Posts: 107
Posted: January 06 2008 at 12:58 | IP Logged Quote Monopoly1954

Hi Furman,

I have changed the air filters. I tried cleaning the turbo charger filters and then had them changed. Very little difference.

I believe every filter on both engines have been changed. 

Thanks for the thoughts.

I am going to have a DD mechanic on the boat in the spring and have copies of the different ideas from the different posts. The sad part of the process, if it solves the soot problem, I will not be able to tell which repair solved the problem.


Corey


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Corey Finkelstein
Monopoly1954@hotmail.com
MONOPOLY
1986 Chriscraft 500
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Pete37
"Commander"




Joined: November 12 2006
Posts: 2317
Posted: January 06 2008 at 16:55 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi All,

I'm getting a lot of good ideas on how to refurb the den.  So far I'm up to plan E.  My favorite is Pand C with the bunk against the starboard wall and that's the way I would go if I could find some way to encorporate two bunks.  But I haven't found a place to pur the second bunk yet.  I really don't need the second bunk but want to keep the den a two bunk cabin just in the event I ever sell.

Plan D looks the most practical so far.  The computer station is on the back wall as it is in all the plans.  A combination 78" long couch/bunk unit runs along the forward wall.  It's about 30" wide and has a removeable back resting against the forward wall.  The aisle is about 2" wide and a 70" long by 28" wide extender piece is stored under the couch.

When you want a double bed you remove the extender piece and place it across the aisle.  It is held up by two strips of wood one on the couch and the other on the face of the computer cabinet.  The extender piece ma have the cushion attached to it or they could be separate pieces.  The couch will be 78" long for a normal bed length.  The extender piece unfortunately can only be about 70" long because if is anly longer it interferes with the both the cabin door and the closet door.  But this is the same length as the Pullman berths are so I guess it's acceptable.  Particularly because wives are usually a little shorter than their husbands.

The couch plus its extender make a 54" to 60" wide bed which is in the full to queen size range.  The room is 78" from from forward wall to aft wall which allows an 18" wide computer desk and a 60" wide bed or a 24" wide computer desk and a 54" wide bed.  I think I'll make the couch/bunk 30" wide  with a 6" back because the seat of a couch is normally about 24" wide.  If the couch is 78" long there will be an 11" space either at the head or foot of the bunk which can be used to support either a TV set or printer.  The space under the shelf will be used for storage. 

Height of the couch seat will be about 19" which is typical of most couches.  It may be possible to store the extender in the wall recess for the Pullman berths.  Even though this boat has never had Pullmans the recess is there. If that's not possible the extender will have to go under the couch seat.

It may be possible to put some storage shelves above the couch.  But they will have to be above 60" since that's about the height of a tall person sitting in the couch.  The ceiling is about 74" so that makes their maximum height about 14".

There's about 26 cubic feet of storage under the couch.  Extra storage space is always in demand.

The only drawback I can see is that when the den is in the double bed mode the occupants will have to enter their beds from the foot of the bed.  That's not a problem in the single bed mode.

I think this is very similar to what Tony has suggested except that I am not planning on any fancy slide out mechanism for the bed extender.  The extender will simply be stored under the couch and taken out as needed (which will probably be very rarely).  Thanks for the photos Tony,  I see only a single photo of the den so I guess there isn't any "after" photo yet.  Unfortunately, I don't have a sliding door and I don't think it's worth the trouble for the rare occasions when we will be using the den in a double bed mode.

Corey's idea of making the Pullman a double width bed is very interesting.  You could just flip the bed up and out of the way when not in use.  Sort of like a Murphy bed.  There are a several problems though.  First the Pullman bed recess is only  44" high which gives you a 44" wide bed.  This is dandy for one person but a bit cramped for two.  I don't know what would be involved in making the Pullman bed recess higher.  Might be easy but might be a mess too. 

The second problem is that the Pullman bed recess is only 70" long which is rather inadequate.  Again, the problem is figuring out how to increase the size of the recess.  A third problem is that even if you're successful in enlarging the Pullman recess,  you cant use the space the bed occupies when down for any fixed items.  It's fine if you want to hold a dance or hang up laundry but you can't have any desks, chairs or work benches in the area.  I don't think I'm going to make this Plan F.

But keep the good ideas coming.  I think we're converging on a practical plan.

Pete37



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David Ross
"Navigator"




Joined: January 02 2007
Posts: 452
Posted: January 06 2008 at 17:05 | IP Logged Quote David Ross

Hi Corey,

Thanks for getting back to me. I hope you find a soot cure in your adjusting the angle or extending the exhaust elbos a bit. I had all the injectors replaced along with valve adjustments and tune up and still had the situation. Called the service tech and he came back and rechecked the injectors and all again. He said all was fine. Still no differance. Called him many times since with no response. Others that have the soot have various prop sizes and pitches. As you said if anyone comes up with a solution we all sure will be grateful. I wonder if Pete or anyone has come up with an answer why just the later models appear to have this problem....

Dave



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DAVE
GOOD SPIRITS
500 CONSTELLATION (1987)
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Banjoman
"First Mate"




Joined: July 02 2007
Posts: 553
Posted: January 06 2008 at 17:45 | IP Logged Quote Banjoman

Dave and Corey - appears we're in the same boat.  One comment:  no exhaust extension in the world will help our problem if our engines are not 100% correct.  I'm the one who brought up the turbo bypass valves.  It's simply too cold to fool with the issue right now, but in early March I am putting some electric heat on board and pull the valves to see what they look like.  As I was told by a  DD surveyor, DD recommends these valves be cleaned every 60 hours!  That seems hard to believe, but if it's true, then several of us may have problems.  Most folks I've talked with don't even know they exist.  If the valves are in any way sticky or closed in either direction, I'm replacing them.  Cleaning them at this point could prove to be fruitless.   I too am having a DD mechanic on board around mid to late March.  Once again, I will have everything looked at, checked out, tuned up, etc.  If that doesn't work, then the hell with it!  I'll just cruise around at 10 kts until either the engines die or I die, which ever comes first!    And given the size of the Pusser's Rum I have in front of me right now.....it may just be me!

HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL!!



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m/v "SOUTHERN CHARM"
Eastern Marine Services, LLC
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