] ]

 
] ] ]
]
Welcome Guest ]
]
] ]

] ] ]
]
Site Navigation ]
]
] ]

] ] ]
]
Top 10 Recent Posts ]
View Last Post Murray Chris Craft Constellations
Pages 1 2 3 4 ... 149 » 150
Last Post By: Capt Jim
Forum: Chris Craft

Posted: August 29 2014 at: 11:06

View Last Post 1991 Four Winns 365
Last Post By: Blue Moon 138
Forum: Four Winns

Posted: July 16 2014 at: 17:35

View Last Post Seat Cushions
Last Post By: Michael Acord
Forum: Sea Fox

Posted: June 06 2014 at: 16:02

View Last Post Sail cleanin’ and hull patchin’
Last Post By: dad21dawg
Forum: Hunter

Posted: May 29 2014 at: 16:01

View Last Post 1983 25’ Chris Craft Catalina
Last Post By: fred6963
Forum: Chris Craft

Posted: May 27 2014 at: 14:26

View Last Post 1963 Constellation 42
Last Post By: spellbound
Forum: Chris Craft

Posted: May 06 2014 at: 08:31

View Last Post Viking Yachts Links
Last Post By: Viking44
Forum: Viking Yacht

Posted: April 17 2014 at: 06:32

View Last Post Amerosport 320
Last Post By: Jerry737
Forum: Chris Craft

Posted: April 13 2014 at: 16:00

View Last Post Any Uniflite Owners near Berkeley CA???
Last Post By: concordian
Forum: Uniflite

Posted: March 08 2014 at: 02:27

View Last Post Inverter
Last Post By: eshover
Forum: Chris Craft

Posted: February 03 2014 at: 11:32

]
] ]
   
Chris Craft
 BoatUS Boat Groups/Manufacturer Forums>>Chris Craft
Subject Topic: Murray Chris Craft Constellations Post ReplyPost New Topic
150 Pages « 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 »
] ] ]
]
Author
Message Prev Topic | Next Topic 
Pete37
"Commander"




Joined: November 12 2006
Posts: 2317
Posted: November 03 2007 at 19:30 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Ken & All,

I was doing some research yesterday and found out that at one time Viking was a subsidiary of Murray Chris Craft.  What a coincidence.

Pete37



__________________
INTERLUDE
A Murray Chris Craft Constellation 500
Back to Top Printable version View Pete37's Profile Search for other posts by Pete37
 
TStellato
"Deckhand"




Joined: August 12 2007
Posts: 206
Posted: November 04 2007 at 21:59 | IP Logged Quote TStellato



Hi all,

We are finally finished with the interior of Five Star.  Just replaced  the lower salon cruiseair and will refurburish the others in the spring.  Found a good guy at the boat show who charges a good rate ($60/hr) and actually came to the boat twice, looked at our units all within a week!   Buckling down for the winter and the cold.  I wanted to know what everyone's winter schedule is.  Perhaps we can plan another get together on land to meet after the holidays.

Would still like thoughts on a Spring gathering..  Date....Place...




__________________
Tony and Vicki
FIVE STAR
1985 Constellation
Back to Top Printable version View TStellato's Profile Search for other posts by TStellato
 
Pete37
"Commander"




Joined: November 12 2006
Posts: 2317
Posted: November 05 2007 at 00:30 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Tony & Vicki,

I'm just starting the winterization process.  But it's going to be a short one this year because I did a lot of stuff this summer.  The oil & filters on the main engines and generator were done back in in August so I don't have to do them now.  I did the batteries today.  Took about an hour.

I'm going to get 10 gallons of antifreeze tomorrow to do the engines & generator.  Should take about two hours to do the fresh water side of both the engines and generator.  Maybe three if I'm lazy.  I really should have changed the antifreeze last summer but got lazy and didn't. 

I'll probably refuel for the last time this year on Wednesday which leaves only the raw water side of the engines and generator left to complete winterization of engines and generator. 

I blow out the potable water system with my compressor so that doesn't take much time.  I do the same to the air conditioners but won't do it until December because I like to use them for heating for as long as possible.

The heads don't normally freeze but I winterize them anyway.  I simply dump some potable antifreeeze in them and pump it into the holding tank.

So this year winterization looks pretty simple because I did most of the work in the summer.

I think another rendezvous would be nice this winter.  Perhaps at the North Pole.  But I doubt we would get much attendance.

December is a poor month for boating group activities because there is holiday shopping, the holidays themselves and lots of parties.  But I think one in mid January would be nice and perhaps a second around the Ides of March.  Arlene and I will be out of town in warmer climes in February and April is bad because that's tax time.  Early May might be great for the spring rendezvous if everyone can get their boats ready.

Probably a dinner get together at a restaurant or yacht club would be appropriate.  I think that I could get a couple of tables at the Kent Island Yacht Club.  Anyway we've got some time to think about it. Let's see what we can come up with.

Glad to hear that your boat is ship shape and winter worthy.  Hope we have a short mild winter.

Pete37



Edited by Pete37 on November 05 2007 at 00:35


__________________
INTERLUDE
A Murray Chris Craft Constellation 500
Back to Top Printable version View Pete37's Profile Search for other posts by Pete37
 
BAYSALOR
"Seaman"




Joined: December 08 2006
Posts: 39
Posted: November 05 2007 at 08:02 | IP Logged Quote BAYSALOR

Tony,

The rest of us have to know - where did you find the cruisair mechanic? Name and phone number, please. I have two units down - need him desperately.

Baysalor

__________________
Skipper, "Vintage Port"
Back to Top Printable version View BAYSALOR's Profile Search for other posts by BAYSALOR
 
Banjoman
"First Mate"




Joined: July 02 2007
Posts: 553
Posted: November 05 2007 at 09:26 | IP Logged Quote Banjoman

Pete - Thanks for depressing me!  Guess I'd better get my rear-in-gear and get ready for ol' man Winter.  I've noticed a couple of folks talk about running antifreeze through their engines. (I've changed my coolant every-other year).   I've owned my boat for 5 winters and have never put antifreeze through the engine raw-water side.  I close the seacocks and remove all water from them via a wet-vac, then remove the seacock drain plugs and vac any amount of water there.  Then I remove the impellers (examine and store) and drain that amount of water and pull the end caps on the exchangers (examine core for debris and/or change anodes.  Most water will drain back towards the impellers or forward toward the exchangers.  I've never had a freeze issue.  Some of the folks in border line freeze areas that need to use their boats intermittently during winter months do the same thing and they definitely don't spend the $$$ on antifreeze.  I only tried once to put antifreeze through the strainers and it was a waste.  I do, however, run antifreeze through the genset.

I have never been able to get my impellers to pick up the antifreeze via the strainers, do you have the fittings for this?  When I couldn't get it through the engines that way, I called a Detroit guy and his response was; "Why are you wasting all the antifreeze?  There ain't that much raw-water in the engines anyway."  So, I've been using the method above ever since with no problems.

Oh yeah, and you can open the petcocks on the coolers as well.  However, if I remove the impeller cover, I find that the siphon effect removes most all water from them.

You say that you "blow out" the potable system.  I do the same but I put antifreeze through the system as well.  Is that not necessary?  Have you never had a freeze issue by simply blowing the system?  Also, what method do you use to "blow" the A/C system?  I run two gallons of antifreeze through the sea strainer and have never had a freeze issue.  I appreciate your thoughts on the winterize issue.  I spend a lot of money on antifreeze (all potable) and if simply blowing the system out works, I'll go that route.  How about the water tank?  I'm sure you must put antifreeze in there don't you?  Do you keep any heat in your boat through the winter?

Mid- Jan would be good for a get-together for us.  Any location is fine, but a raft-up is out!

This is turning into a great forum for repairs/maint/crusing tips.  Let's hear from some more folks out there regarding winterizing and socializing!  (I guess that could be one in the same depending on how you look at it! )

I've been in the process of installing a Follow-me TV (Now called Track-It TV) on SC and hope to go to the boat today and do a test run, I'll let you know how it all goes in a post. 

 



__________________
Capt. G. Emory Shover
m/v "SOUTHERN CHARM"
Eastern Marine Services, LLC
Marine Survey - Yacht Delivery
www.easternmarineservices.com
Back to Top Printable version View Banjoman's Profile Search for other posts by Banjoman
 
Pete37
"Commander"




Joined: November 12 2006
Posts: 2317
Posted: November 05 2007 at 13:39 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Emory,

Sorry to depress you.  I hate doing winterization too; especially in cold weather.  That's why I now try to do as much as possible in the summer.

I think you have  misunderstood.  There are two types of water in your engines.  The first is the "fresh water" which circulates through the engine block.  The second is the "raw water" which is the water that is picked up from the bay and circulated through the heat exchanger to keep the engine cool.

I never use antifreeze in the raw water side.  I simply close the seacocks, open all the petcocks in the raw water side and let the water drain out.  Make sure you get all the petcocks and drains;  there are 10 per engine.  They include the raw water strainer, the transmission cooler, the raw water to intercooler pipe, the intercooler inlet, the intercooler outlet, the fuel cooler, the heat exchanger input, the heat exchanger output and two in the pipe between the the heat exchanger and exhaust riser.  I haven't found it necessary to vacuum it out but I guess that doesn't do any harm.  The raw water pump has no petcock so I remove the cover and pull out the rubber impellor.  I use the special impellor puller made by Jabsco.  Costs about $50 but works great.  That two screwdriver routine is for the birds and often damages the impellor.

On the fresh water side I always use ethylene glycol antifreeze (not the pink potable propylene glycol junk) and replace it every two years.  But I do that by replacing about half every year.  I pull the plug on the fresh water side of the heat exchanger and let the water drain out.  The heat exchanger holds about 10 gallons so I refill it with a mix of 6 gallons water and 4 gallons ethylene glycol to get a -12 deg F freeze temp.  I could probably get away with 3 gallons but I'm cautious when it comes to the health of a $40,000 engine. 

The water in the block is also protected to -12 deg from last year's filling and as soon as the engines are run, the antifreeze in the block mixes with the antifreeze in the heat exchanger.  I also replace the lower zinc in the heat exchanger at this time since it is always in bad shape and check the remainder of the zincs.  The block holds about 5 gallons so in effect I replace 2/3rds of the water/antifreeze mix each year.  Perhaps it is slightly wasteful but its simpler to do than opening all the petcocks on the block and worrying about whether they have drained completely.

In smaller engines I used to pump antifreeze through the raw water side using the engine's raw water pump but I find that impractical on the 6V92s due the large size of the intake fittings.  I could never be sure that I had completely filled the raw water side without wasting copious amounts of antifreeze.

On the potable water system I first pump out as much of the water in the tank as possible. Then I shut off the seacock, drain the pump and pump compressed air into the dockside water inlet opening each water outlet and letting the compressor run until nothing but air comes out.  At one time I backfilled with potable antifreeze but found that unnecessary if you blow out the system thoroughly.

You can, if you want, put in potable antifreeze and then blow it out into a bucket for use next year if you want.  But that's a lot of extra work.  Backfilling with antifreeze is of course the belt and suspenders approach and is more reliable if you don't mind the extra work and the nuisance of having to store 6 to 8 gallons of antifreeze each year. 

I always bypass my water heater and drain it before winterizing the potable water system.  Don't forget to turn it off first  And also don't forget to drain the water demand valves in the refrigerator and upper salon icemaker.  They'll freeze if you don't and are a PITA to replace.  The copper pipes leading to the water demand valves also have a tendancy to freeze and rupture.  Their fittings should be loosened and the pipes should be blown out.  Also pump air into both the port and starboard dockside water inlets to make sure that they're both free of water.

I don't put antifreeze in the water tank.  The potable antifreeze leaves a bitter taste which is hard to eradicate even after several flushings.  In all but a couple of the last 30 years I've never seen ice in the bilge and for the last 20 years my marina has had bubblers which are turned on whenever ice begins to form in the marina.  So I doubt that I will have any water tank problems.  But your situation may be different.

In spite of all my precautions, my boat is equipped with three 1500 watt automatic bilge heaters (two in the engine room and one in the generator room) which turn on whenever the bilge drops below 40 degrees.  I turn them on about the 1st of January and leave them on until about the 1st of March.  They cost about $90 per month to run but I think they're relatively cheap insurance.

The A/C system is a bit of a PITA because there is a five way distribution manifold.  Therefore, blowing air into the manifold doesn't guarantee that all the A/C units are free of water.  Pumping 2 gallons of antifreeze through it doesn't guarantee it either.  I have to remove the manifold outlet hoses and blow out each A/C unit individually.

My new Jabsco heads are a breeze to winterize.  First, do your last holding tank pumpout.  Then simply remove the head's inlet water hose, pour a gallon of propylene glycol (pink) antifreeze into the bowl, pump it into the holding tank, pump the tank out and shut off the seacock. 

I've been using one of my genealogical programs to make flow charts of the process of winterizing.  It makes sure that I haven't forgotten anything.  And for each block on the chart there is a Notes section where I can record what, when and how I did each item.  That comes in real handy next year when I'm trying to decide whether oil, filters, antifreeze, etc. need to be changed.

Pete37

 

 



__________________
INTERLUDE
A Murray Chris Craft Constellation 500
Back to Top Printable version View Pete37's Profile Search for other posts by Pete37
 
Ken27
"Deckhand"




Joined: December 12 2006
Posts: 138
Posted: November 05 2007 at 14:25 | IP Logged Quote Ken27

Hi everyone,

The Good Life is equipped with a directional TV antenna mounted under the upper helm.  Throughout the boat are outlets for coaxial cables along with the recepticals for the directional controllers.  Dockside we are connected to digital cable, however underway or anchored, we use the antenna.  I assume this system was either an option or standard equipment.  I'm in need of some replacement parts, particularly the outlets and controllers, but I can find no manual for this system.  Would anyone have a manual they're willing to share with me?  I especially need a web address or other contact info if the company is still in business.

Thanks in advance,

Ken

Back to Top Printable version View Ken27's Profile Search for other posts by Ken27
 
Pete37
"Commander"




Joined: November 12 2006
Posts: 2317
Posted: November 05 2007 at 15:23 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Ken,

Wow! You're asking for ancient history Ken.  I had to check my maintenance records all the way back to July 12, 1996 nine months after I bought my Connie.  I think I found some data on your antenna.  It was called an AC/DC Mini-State Antenna System and was built by Antennacraft.  I found what is probably your antenna at

www.summitsource.com

Type in "antennacraft" in the search box in the upper left hand corner of the summitsource site and you will find the 5ms9000 listed there in both new and refurbished forms.

I had one on my boat but replaced it with another brand.  It's called omnidirectional but says the antenna is a directional amplified outdoor antenna and it has a little rotator box to control the direction of the antenna.  Apparently they are still available.  Cost is $89.95 refurbished or $117 new..  The power supply for the antenna is a Model 5M5750 DC Neg ORND 120 VAC 60 Hz 10 watts.

I also have a note for TDP Electronic, Swannanoa, NC 28778.  I'm not sure what that is but I think the T stands for Tandy (Radio Schack).

The antenna output leads to a Channel Master 82 Channel VHF/UHF/FM Amplifier Model 7363 located in the cabinet closest to the aft wall of the lower salon on the starboard side.  You have to open the cabinet with a screwdriver.  There are a number of TV splitters hooked to the output of the amplifier which lead to the various TV coax cables.  It's set for one TV in the master stateroom, one in the lower salon and one in the upper salon.  A switch in the next cabinet forward (which has a hinged door)  allows you to select between the antenna or TV service from the shore.

I think the amplifier is dead by now since it's been on for 21 years (there's no on/off switch for the system).

My gut feeling is that you would do better buying a whole new system rather than screwing around with 21 year old technology.  At least then you would be able to get spare parts and advice on how to hook it up.

If and when you get your TV system set up let me know how it works.  I'm not satisfied with the way mine works.  I can get better signals on a bent coat hanger.

Pete37

 

 



Edited by Sonja Lowe on September 19 2013 at 14:14
Back to Top Printable version View Pete37's Profile Search for other posts by Pete37
 
Ken27
"Deckhand"




Joined: December 12 2006
Posts: 138
Posted: November 05 2007 at 17:17 | IP Logged Quote Ken27

Pete,

Thanks for the info.  I'm very familiar with the system on board.  Actually, we have five different coax outlets throughout the boat and it works very well.  We get great reception on all the broadcast channels.  I need to replace a few of the coax/controller outlets along with replacing a couple controllers.  If I can find the parts, I should be good to go.   I think this is one of those situations of, if it ain't broke, don't fix it, as in don't replace it.  (Did that make sense?)  Anyway, we use it so seldom that as long as I can connect the TVs and control the directional antenna, we'll be fine.

I'll check out the sites you passed on to me.

Thanks again,

Ken

Back to Top Printable version View Ken27's Profile Search for other posts by Ken27
 
rvolker
"Seaman Recruit"




Joined: October 18 2007
Posts: 8
Posted: November 05 2007 at 18:50 | IP Logged Quote rvolker

All,

Another rendezvous sounds like a great idea however we not sure of our schedule.  We had planned to head (home) to CA this winter but some East coast family issues may change our plans.

FYI for 6V92 motors - I had a Detriot Diesel mechanic looking at my 671s last week and I asked him about the soot that you 6V92 owners have experienced.  His said unless the compression is at the higher end of the accepatable range you will get the soot problems with these engines.  He said that design of these engines and the fact that they are being pushed out in horsepower makes compression (marginal) a major contributor to soot.  I am not supporting this opinion just passing it on.

For Constellation 460 owners - I would like to compare some of the engine setup performance number with you.  Here is a starting point:

  • Injector M85 (M indicates it is a "ramp" injector that does not dump (inject) the fuel all at once - starts slow and then ramps to fuel flow)
  • Props marked size are 27 x 24 - 4 blade.  These are what came with my boat for both the install and spares.  PROPSCAN readings are 27.5 x 24.5.
  •  No RPM x Speed to fuel usage numbers at this time. 

Any sharing of information around the 460 (with 671 TI engines) is appreciated.

Thanks,

Randy



__________________
Randy
Freedom
Point Loma, CA
Constellation 460 - 1986
Back to Top Printable version View rvolker's Profile Search for other posts by rvolker
 
TStellato
"Deckhand"




Joined: August 12 2007
Posts: 206
Posted: November 05 2007 at 19:45 | IP Logged Quote TStellato


Ron,

Cruiseair guy is George with Total Boat Works 443-553-2899.  He came the first time while actually working the boat show.  We like him and his brother because they are not just into replacing the whole system unless it really is shot.  They are willing to work on and refurbish what you have.  He is also a Chris Craft guy.  Lives on his 55 flushdeck. 

Pete,
We finally found out how to use the forward tanks.  We have opened the values on the tanks then the controls on the back wall..nothing...then there is another set of controls under the bed.. it works!  our system does not switch the tanks but rather allows the fuel in the forward tanks to flow back into the main rear ones and then into the engine.  Problem solved.  It took a few hours for the the fuel to flow and settle and then the tanks all read correctly.


__________________
Tony and Vicki
FIVE STAR
1985 Constellation
Back to Top Printable version View TStellato's Profile Search for other posts by TStellato
 
Banjoman
"First Mate"




Joined: July 02 2007
Posts: 553
Posted: November 05 2007 at 19:51 | IP Logged Quote Banjoman

Tony, all I can say is WOW!  You found an A/C guy that doesn't simply want to "plug n' play"!   That's nothing short of a miracle this day and age.  I definitely am keeping his number.   And a Chris guy on top of that.  What a find.

__________________
Capt. G. Emory Shover
m/v "SOUTHERN CHARM"
Eastern Marine Services, LLC
Marine Survey - Yacht Delivery
www.easternmarineservices.com
Back to Top Printable version View Banjoman's Profile Search for other posts by Banjoman
 
Pete37
"Commander"




Joined: November 12 2006
Posts: 2317
Posted: November 06 2007 at 00:31 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

To Randy & Deana,

My what short memories we have.  My last boat, before I bought my Connie in 1994, was a 1980 42' Ocean Yacht Sunliner with a pair of 300 hp. 471s.  I think they were TIs but it's been a long time and I would have to look them up.  But anyway those engines were pretty good soot generators too and I spent a lot of afternoons scrubbing off the transom. 

A 471 was just a 671 minus two cylinders.  And 671s in their heyday were admired for their reliability but I never heard anyone say they were clean engines.  On the contrary, they smoked like a chimney and leaked oil profusely.  Both of these attributes are shared by the 6V92s.  That's not particularly surprising since 6V92s are just scaled up versions of the 671s in a V configuration.  Nearly all the technology is the same.

In the mid 80s Detroit was the major marine diesel manufacturer and commanded more than 70% of marine diesel sales with their 2 cycle engines.  But in the late 80s both the 71 and 92 series were discontinued because they couldn't meet the EPA air polution standards.  And Detroit did nothing to try to clean them up because they knew two cycle engines are inherently smoky.

I'd like to have brand new clean running 4 cycle diesels but they're too expensive.  I've got 6V92s, they give good service and they're grandfathered so I guess I'll just keep them running to the end of my boating days.

Have a pleasant winter in California, we'll be looking forward to seeing you in the spring.

Pete37



Edited by Pete37 on November 06 2007 at 00:40


__________________
INTERLUDE
A Murray Chris Craft Constellation 500
Back to Top Printable version View Pete37's Profile Search for other posts by Pete37
 
Banjoman
"First Mate"




Joined: July 02 2007
Posts: 553
Posted: November 06 2007 at 09:04 | IP Logged Quote Banjoman

One of the big differences between the 671 and 6V92 (and  major causes of destroying the 6V92's) is in the head gaskets.  The 671 uses a one-piece head gasket, as is common in the world of fossil fuel engines.  They traditionally held up very well.  The 671's were not prone to over-heating or cracked heads as is the 6V92 (I know, I've replaced a head on my port engine.)  The 92 series uses individual "O" ring style gaskets on each cylinder.  The the head is removed during overhaul or any other issue, you must use alignment pins to make sure the head does not shift when re-installing or their is a great chance of "pinching" or "crimping" the gasket.  It may hold for a short while and begining to give way or it may simply blow out on sea trial.  These gaskets have cost many an owner his engine or at the very least a cracked head which usually ends up requiring a cylinder replacement, and that's if you're lucky!  Mine took out the piston, rod and crank.  The 671's have traditionally had far less overheating problems (overall) than the 6V92's.  The 92's require a constant vigilance and watchful eye on the temp. gauges and loss of coolant antifreeze. 

__________________
Capt. G. Emory Shover
m/v "SOUTHERN CHARM"
Eastern Marine Services, LLC
Marine Survey - Yacht Delivery
www.easternmarineservices.com
Back to Top Printable version View Banjoman's Profile Search for other posts by Banjoman
 
Pete37
"Commander"




Joined: November 12 2006
Posts: 2317
Posted: November 06 2007 at 11:49 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Emory,

There is no way of fairly comparing the performance of the 71 and 92 series Detroit Diesels.  671s were in production from before WWII to the mid 90s.  Over the years the performance of the 671s was improved from its original 125 hp. to almost 500 hp.  But in the process the reliability of the 671s dropped lower and lower giving them the reputation of being the "go bang" engine by the mid 80s.  See Dave Pascoe's articles on gas versus diesel engines at

www.yachtsurvey.com

"Go bang" meant that they were likely to malfunction catastrophically.  The 671 was mainly a truck and bus engine.  Marine use at less than 1% of production wasn't even factored into the design.  By the mid 70s busses were getting larger and heavier to the point that even with super and turbo charging the 671 could not provide enough power.  871s and 1271s were considered as replacements but were too bulky and complex for the bus application.

Therefore, Detroit started the design of a new engine which would not be much larger than a 671 but could produce about 30% more horsepower.  In order to keep the number of cylinders down to 6 this meant the displacement of each cylinder had to be increased from 71 cubic inches to 92 cubic inches.  And in order to keep the size down the engine had to be designed in a V configuration.  The result of this design effort was the 92 series and the 6V92. 

6V92s began appearing on the market in 1980 and initially had a lot of problems but by 1983 the problems were worked out and the 6V92s were pretty reliable.  They continued in production until the mid 90s at which time the 92 series along with the 71 series were phased out because neither could not meet the EPA air polution standards.

So the 92s were in production for only about 15 years while the 71s were in production for 45 years.  And most of the 71s were not highly supercharged until the early 80s while the 92s were always highly supercharged.  It's not fair to compare an engine producing 0.3 to 0.6 hp per cubic inch with an engine producing 1.0 hp per cubic inch.  Supercharging always makes an engine less reliable.  When the 671s producing in excess of 430 hp are compared with the 6V92s producing 550 hp. we find that the 671s are just as unreliable as the 6V92s.  But the legend of the reliability of the early unsupercharged 671s lingers on.

As Dave Pascoe says "Diesel engines in pleasure craft almost never wear out; They break down due to corrosion damage and other maintenance deficiencies." It's not the number of hours on your engine that count; it's the maintenance. And low hour diesels, ironically, are often the most poorly maintained.  That's why diesel engines in commercial boats last so much longer than they do in pleasure craft.  And of course 71s are just as prone to corrosion and poor maintenance failures as 92s.

As to the difference in head gasket design, I can't make any conclusions as to whether the 92 design is better than the 71 design or not.  The flat head gasket was used on the 71s because it's a very old design and that's the way they did it back in the 30s.  The 92s were designed in the mid 70s and there may have been good reasons to use "O" ring style gaskets.  Convenience to the mechanic is important but not the only consideration in designing engines.  If it were we would still be using the old flat head design engines.  Most people don't even know what a flat head engine is these days.  Sounds like your mechanic should have used the alignment pins.  If he didn't shame on him.

All high performance diesels require a "constant vigilance and watchful eye" on the temperature.  That's why I can't understand why some people will tolerate the old Teleflex temperature gauges used on early Connies that can't be read accurately enough to detect engine problems.  And that's also why we have engine alarm systems.  I believe they're pretty much standard on all diesels these days.

Pete37

 

 



Edited by Sonja Lowe on September 19 2013 at 14:16
Back to Top Printable version View Pete37's Profile Search for other posts by Pete37
 
Pete37
"Commander"




Joined: November 12 2006
Posts: 2317
Posted: November 06 2007 at 12:40 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi All,

In writing my last post I had to drag out my old records on David Pascoe's articles.  I won't bother to mention his credentials since they are well known and his web site repeats them anyway.

But after dragging them out I reread a few and one of them in particular should be mandatory reading for all Connie owners.  The article I speak of is "Diesel Maintenance or Lack Thereof".  Instead of complaining about your diesel problems you should read this article and take steps to prevent them.   It's located at

www.yachtsurvey.com/diesel_maintenance.htm

You may think I'm preaching but this is an important article.  Read it and make a printed copy for future reference.  One of his comments is that you should check your oil and coolant every time you leave the dock.  Do you?  I do because learned to do it by hard experience long before reading Dave's article.  Believe me, you don't want to learn about this the hard way.

Please read it; there will be a test.

Pete37



__________________
INTERLUDE
A Murray Chris Craft Constellation 500
Back to Top Printable version View Pete37's Profile Search for other posts by Pete37
 
Delaware Jim
"Navigator"




Joined: December 27 2006
Posts: 381
Posted: November 06 2007 at 19:37 | IP Logged Quote Delaware Jim

Hi All,

With respect to winterizing, we will be living aboard and keeping heat on all winter.  I am draining and refilling the fresh water side of all engines with EG antifreeze (I have no idea what is in there now...) and change out all the pencil zincs in the systems. If we leave the boat for any extended periods I will drain the raw water side.  I am planning on keeping one or two 1000 watt oil filled space heaters (as needed) to keep the bilge areas around 50 degrees (close off outside air vents).  I plan on keeping the genny ready if needed - as long as it is warm, with glow plugs, it should start.

Anything else I should be thinking about doing (based on a heated boat) for winterizing?  Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Delaware Jim

 

 



__________________
"Still In the Mood"
1985 Chris Craft 500 Constellation
Back to Top Printable version View Delaware Jim's Profile Search for other posts by Delaware Jim
 
Pete37
"Commander"




Joined: November 12 2006
Posts: 2317
Posted: November 07 2007 at 01:13 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Jim,

If you fill the fresh water side of the engines with an antifreeze/water mix good for 0 degrees and make sure it mixes well (so both the engine and the heat exchanger have 0 degree freeze points) you shouldn't have any problems with the engines.  I prefer to go to -10 degrees but that is probably a bit of overkill. 

I don't see much point in postponing the draining the raw water side.  It doesn't cost anything because you aren't loosing any antifreeze and if you want to start up the engines all you have to do is close the petcocks and tighten the screws on the raw water pump cover.

If your boat doesn't have built in bilge heaters, the oil filled heaters should do the job.  The only drawback is that they aren't automatic.  But theoretically you don't need the heaters to protect the engines anyway if you have properly winterized them.  The heaters are just the "suspenders" in your "belt and suspenders" winterizing approach.

I would winterize the generator too with antifreeze on both the fresh and raw water sides.  You can use propylene glycol on the raw water side if you like. If an emergency occurs it can be dewinterized very quickly.  If you plan on starting your generator in mid winter as an emergency power source you should make some provison for keeping the battery warm.  If you keep the generator warm as well you won't need glow plugs.  So putting one of your 1000 watt heaters in the generator room might be a smart move.

The other things that need to be winterized are the A/C system, the potable water system and the heads.  You might as well winterize the A/C units because they become useless once the water temp drops below 40 degrees.  You will have to rely on electric heaters for warming the cabins.  I would say that you will need at least 6000 watts to stay warm plus the two 1000 watt bilge heaters which makes 8000 watts. 

Thats a 64 amp load on your electrical system exclusive of any other loads you may have so your shore power system is going to be severly loaded.  You're going to have big electric bills.  Be on the lookout for overheating shore power plugs.  We had 4500 watts one winter in Myrtle Beach and it wasn't adequate unless we both huddled in one cabin.

It's tempting to use kerosene heaters but they are very dangerous both from the fire and asphyxiation standpoints.  I don't recommend them.

Heads don't normally freeze but you had better be prepared to do an emergency winterization if it gets really cold. 

The potable water system may need to be winterized if you leave the boat unattended.  Use a compressor to blow out the lines.

And make sure you have a quick way of getting out of the water in case you accidentally fall in.  We've found two dead bodies floating in our marina of 270 boats in the past 20 years.  We don't know exactly what happened but we suspect they fell in, froze and drowned.  Making a quick release for your swim ladder is one way to be sure you can get out of the water.

Here's hoping that you have a short and mild winter,

Pete37

 

 



__________________
INTERLUDE
A Murray Chris Craft Constellation 500
Back to Top Printable version View Pete37's Profile Search for other posts by Pete37
 
Banjoman
"First Mate"




Joined: July 02 2007
Posts: 553
Posted: November 07 2007 at 08:44 | IP Logged Quote Banjoman

Folks - might I add, when on deck during cold weather/water temps, wear some sort of PFD!  Your mind will tell you that you can survive a "short" dip in the pool.  Wrong!  I fell off my boat in mid-Nov a couple of years ago and I was right at the swim platform, and I was lucky, I had a friend on board who immediately climbed down to the swim ladder and extended it out for me (I did away with the original ladder and installed an extendable ladder on the starboard side).  In that short (very short) period of time, I already started into hypothermia and I immediately ran down to the shower and jumped in.  Luckily, I had stayed on board the night before and the tank was full of hot water.  I hadn't winterized the potable side yet.   People go into hypothermia on the Bay in July, keep that in mind.  Play it safe, buy an inflatible vest, I bought one for myself and my wife.  If you're alone, let someone near by know you're around, make a noise.  Most folks know what a body splash sounds like and they'll come running.  I don't want to lose any of my "new found" friends this winter! 

__________________
Capt. G. Emory Shover
m/v "SOUTHERN CHARM"
Eastern Marine Services, LLC
Marine Survey - Yacht Delivery
www.easternmarineservices.com
Back to Top Printable version View Banjoman's Profile Search for other posts by Banjoman
 
Pete37
"Commander"




Joined: November 12 2006
Posts: 2317
Posted: November 07 2007 at 11:23 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi All,

Subj: Hypothermia

Time to unconsciousness in freezing water is less than 15 miniutes.  The time by which you are unable to climb a ladder is probably less than 10 minutes.  For info on hypothermia see:

www.boatsafe.com/nauticalknowhow/hypothermia.htm 

If you haven't made plans on how to get out of the water you probably won't make it.  You have only 10 minutes to save your life.  Take Banjoman's warnings seriously.

Pete37

 

 



Edited by Sonja Lowe on August 13 2014 at 09:50


__________________
INTERLUDE
A Murray Chris Craft Constellation 500
Back to Top Printable version View Pete37's Profile Search for other posts by Pete37
 
TStellato
"Deckhand"




Joined: August 12 2007
Posts: 206
Posted: November 07 2007 at 13:53 | IP Logged Quote TStellato



We are live aboards also.  In the old boat we had central heat in the big boat and used the oil radiators to suppliment.  On this boat, we are going to winterize the engines and the gennie and put a few heaters down there to keep it at about 50 degrees.  Not for the engines, but for all the water pipes down there.  Tony is also going to heat tape the pipes under the sinks and where ever he can reach, because the rear 2 heads do not have under cabinet doors to leave open.  He is also going to cover over the side vents. 

With the power concerns, we will have 2 propane heaters to use when we are home.  We found ones with no open flame.  They put out lots of heat and with the electric rate increase they will be cheaper.  Of course we do not leave those on when we are off the boat, but when you return they will warm the room up quickly.  We had the lower salon air unit replaced and at the same time cut another vent on the other side of the room.  It makes a big difference in distributing the heat.  No more cold pockets!

Has anyone added additional breakers or amperage?  I had a 40 Silverton that I lived on before and had another 30 amps put in just to use for winter heat.  If anyone added power how did you adapt your panel board?


__________________
Tony and Vicki
FIVE STAR
1985 Constellation
Back to Top Printable version View TStellato's Profile Search for other posts by TStellato
 
Ken27
"Deckhand"




Joined: December 12 2006
Posts: 138
Posted: November 07 2007 at 15:25 | IP Logged Quote Ken27

To everyone,

On 11/05 I posted a request for info on our onboard/over the air TV antenna systems.  I'm in need of the wall outlets for the coax/remote controls.  I've been able to find the remotes themselves, but no outlets.  Does anyone have any that they might have removed during an upgrade or modification of their systems that you'd be willing to sell?

Thanks,

Ken

Back to Top Printable version View Ken27's Profile Search for other posts by Ken27
 
BAYSALOR
"Seaman"




Joined: December 08 2006
Posts: 39
Posted: November 07 2007 at 16:27 | IP Logged Quote BAYSALOR

Baysalor (Vintage Port) has the hardware you are looking for. We used
the on-board antenna during the ride down from Buffalo, but have no
further use for it/them. When I am out rafting or cruising, TV is the
farthest thing from my mind. Supply me with wooden replacement
covers, and I will let you have all you want for only $3,000. Just
kidding. Yours free.......

Baysalor   443-254-9917

__________________
Skipper, "Vintage Port"
Back to Top Printable version View BAYSALOR's Profile Search for other posts by BAYSALOR
 
David Ross
"Navigator"




Joined: January 02 2007
Posts: 452
Posted: November 07 2007 at 16:52 | IP Logged Quote David Ross

Winterizing coments...

Amen to having an easy way to get back on board in case of falling into the water from your boat especially in the winter. Know where any dockside ladders are. Many marina's do not have proper arrangements. It is difficult if not impossible to get onto a swim platform without a qwick release ladder that goes down into the water. Make sure all bolts and screws are there and secure. I speak from experience. I fell in next to my boat one year at the end of February (just off the Delaware River in Delra, NJ). Could not get onto my boat, any other boat or the dock. I tried for twenty minutes than had to swim to shore against tide and wind. I don't know why I did not die of hypothermia. I was totally exhuasted and lucky to make reach shore.

Dave



__________________
DAVE
GOOD SPIRITS
500 CONSTELLATION (1987)
Back to Top Printable version View David Ross's Profile Search for other posts by David Ross
 
David Ross
"Navigator"




Joined: January 02 2007
Posts: 452
Posted: November 07 2007 at 17:16 | IP Logged Quote David Ross

More on winterizing....

For those who are going to live aboard during the winter and to those who are totally winterizing, some things to remember. If you have an anchor or deck mounted washdown, engine room water washdown, fly bridge sink and/or icemaker and windshield washers don't forget them. If you are draining or putting anti-freeze thru your engine sea strainers you should remove the bottom-side plug and drain and suck out the water.  The dock side fresh water inlets (by the helm doors) have to be done right. If you just pump anti-freeze thru them the pressure regulators still can freeze and burst. You have to blow them out first. Someone mentioned that they could not get anti-freeze throughout the engine and exhaust system. Just filling the sea strainer will not suffice. I wet vac out the sea strainer, clean and fill with anti-freeze and use a home made lid adaptor that allows me to run a two inch hose from the top into a five gallon bucket filled with anti-freeze and start the engine (do not let the buckect run dry).

Dave



__________________
DAVE
GOOD SPIRITS
500 CONSTELLATION (1987)
Back to Top Printable version View David Ross's Profile Search for other posts by David Ross
 
Delaware Jim
"Navigator"




Joined: December 27 2006
Posts: 381
Posted: November 07 2007 at 20:14 | IP Logged Quote Delaware Jim

Hi Gang,

I appreciate all the thoughts on winterizing while a live aboard needing water and other systems, etc.  Couple of thoughts - I will put winter covers on the two outside wash down faucets (hadn't thought of it until mentioned), and have an air pump to blow out the fresh water system if we leave for any extended period of time. 

On the AC question, I plan to use the units until they are no longer effective (early January in Baltimore, based on last winter experience).  At that time (water below 40 degrees), I plan to open the system and drain/blow out with compressed air.

I also like the idea of heat tapes/insulation on the water lines in the heads  I am now thinking about doing what Pete said about draining the raw water side of the main engines.  I am also thinking about putting pink AF in the genny as suggested (belt and suspenders).  Batteries will be kept "reasonably" warm with the heaters, so they should be OK. 

For heating, I am planning on only electric space heaters once we get to 40 degree water temp. I'll close off the forward cabin and head (just pipe heat tape there) with a 1000 watt heater in lower salon, one in aft stateroom and one in upper salon.  That, plus 1-2000 watts in the bilge total 4-5KW or in the 70 amp range. 

On the comments about the electrical system capacity, we had a discussion on that subject earlier in this thread.  It appears that the "Shore power 1" line on my boat (50A/220V) is actually split in the panel to power buss 1 and buss 2 each with one side (110V) from that 220 line.  I've observed over 30 amp draw on each side with all AC's running in the summer, so that appears to be the case. That effectively gives a 100 amp capacity (50 on each side) at 110V, and a second line can power the buss 3 on the panel.  I am repairing a spare 50A 220V shore power cable to use as a second feed if needed. With a bit of power balancing to avoid too much draw on either side, I think we'll be OK.

Keep those ideas coming!

Delaware Jim



__________________
"Still In the Mood"
1985 Chris Craft 500 Constellation
Back to Top Printable version View Delaware Jim's Profile Search for other posts by Delaware Jim
 
Pete37
"Commander"




Joined: November 12 2006
Posts: 2317
Posted: November 08 2007 at 01:07 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

To All,

It looks as though everyone's taking winter seriously now that the temperatures are falling.  We had a long Indian Summer but it couldn't last forever.

Tony and Vicki:

Be careful with those propane heaters and don't fall asleep with them on.  They may not set you afire but they do consume oxygen and can asphyxiate you as fast as a kerosene heater.  It does depend on how leaky (air wise) your boat is.  The more leaks the better from an asphyxiation standpoint but how do you know whether you're getting enough air or not.  If you don't wake up in the morning you obviously weren't.  I'd suggest turning off the propane and depending on electric blankets while you sleep.

Your boat should be set up for 150 amps at 120 volts going to three busses through two shore cables.  One cable is a 50 amp 220 volt cable and the other is a 50 amp 120 volt cable.  The first feeds busses 1 and 2 and the last buss 3.  You should be able to feed 50 amps to all three busses with these cables without any modification to the boat or the existing panel. 

If you need more for winter heat, I would suggest a separate  temporary cable and breaker box tied directly to the heaters with no interface to the existing electrical system.  50 amp 220 volt cables and 50 amp 125 volt cables are extremely expensive (over $500) so I would suggest a pair of 30 amp 125 volt cables if that is enough power for your needs.  The extra 60 amps should provide you quite a bit of heat.

Since this is a temporary winter thing not tied to the boat's electrical system you don't need a fancy panel and could probably use a relatively inexpensive commercial breaker box.  You will also, of course, have to arrange with your marina for the extra power service.  But they may have some 30 amp services that aren't being used in the winter.  The only other problem is where do you store all this crap during the summer?  My estimated cost would be $200-$300 for parts plus $100-$200 labor costs or $300-$500 total (Price not guaranteed).  This assumes you buy all the parts yourselves and contract out the labor.  If you can get by with only 30 amps the total price would probably be about $150-$200.

Dave:

You and Emory have both fallen in and nearly drowned in the winter.  That's two out of maybe 20 who are reading this thread.  I guess we all need to pay close attention to this matter.  I have a ladder on the dock directly behind my boat but maybe I ought to check it to make sure the marina has properly maintained it.  I probably had better hook up a quick release for the swim ladder also as a backup.  I've never fallen in but it could happen at any time.

Somehow it seems easier and more reliable to just open all the petcocks and let the water drain out.  There are ten drain ports as I mentioned in a previous post. Some people may be nervous that they will miss one but just make up a list as you open them.  Actually, I don't just open them.  I totally remove them with a wrench and put them in a glass bottle.  Removing them gives a larger more reliable drain.  And after draining the raw water side I don't have to worry about loosing antifreeze when I check the zincs.  I take the petcocks home and clean them up by a brief (10 min) bath in household muriatic acid (use rubber gloves and don't smell the fumes).  In the spring they are reinstalled and closed.

The raw water plumbing usually stays pretty clean and free of debris because of the high rate of water flow.  The greatest danger of clogging lies in the raw water side of the heat exchanger elements.  Rubber pellets from blown raw water pump impellors are common.  That's a good incentive to remove the impellors before they blow. 

The inlet side of the transmission cooler is also a point of high clogging.  Some people call it the second stage raw water filter.  Eelgrass goes right through the big inlet strainer and lodges in the lower end of the cooler.  There are two brass pipe plugs that can be removed to view that area.  If it s clogged it can usually be cleaned out with a hose.

Jim:

For maximum heating capacity you really should have all three busses going so you'll need your 50 amp 220 volt cable plus your 50 amp 120 volt cable.  But not too many marinas are set up for this.  You had better check the power status on the dock.  A spare 50 amp 220 volt cable is a good thing to have on hand but it won't work as the feed for bus #3  That requires a 50 amp 120 volt cable that has different plugs.  And you ought to find out where you can get a spare dock plug quickly if the marina's plug blows.  Hopefully the marina will fix it but you never know. 

I assume you've picked up a couple of electric blankets.  No boat should be without them in the winter.

The upper salon gets really cold in the winter.  It's the hardest room to heat because of all the windows and doors.  A windshield cover will help to keep that cabin warm.  And blankets over the stern and side windows will help too.  Most people don't want to put them up because they're ugly and block the view.  But at some point in February you will probably value the heat more than the view.

Pete37



Edited by Pete37 on November 08 2007 at 01:55


__________________
INTERLUDE
A Murray Chris Craft Constellation 500
Back to Top Printable version View Pete37's Profile Search for other posts by Pete37
 
Pete37
"Commander"




Joined: November 12 2006
Posts: 2317
Posted: November 08 2007 at 01:17 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi All,

Final post for the evening.

Arlene and I would like to invite you to a "Connie Friends" pot luck party on Saturday, December 1st at 5:30 PM at our house in Grasonville on the Eastern Shore.  It's just over the bridge and through the woods a little way but it's not grandma's house.  More detailed instructions will follow.

Please let us know if you can make it.  Further info will follow after we know if we have a quorum.

Pete37



__________________
INTERLUDE
A Murray Chris Craft Constellation 500
Back to Top Printable version View Pete37's Profile Search for other posts by Pete37
 
David Ross
"Navigator"




Joined: January 02 2007
Posts: 452
Posted: November 09 2007 at 12:42 | IP Logged Quote David Ross

Hi Pete

I went thru a large area of eelgrass after my last cruise (36 miles each way). Shortly afterward the stbd engine started to oveheat. I kept it at 10 knots to keep the temperature at 185-190 degrees; the port was 15-20  degrees cooler. Coming back a couple days later I was able to go 15 knots with the stbd at 185-190 degrees and port again 15-20 degrees cooler. The same conditions with wind, sea,etc. The sea strainer was pretty clean with some sign of eelgrass. I have not had the boat out since.... things landside have been hectic. I plan to winterize this week and next.

You mentioned eelgrass can get clooged in the lower end of the cooler. You also said there are two brass plugs that can be removed for inspection and cleaning with a hose. I have some questions. Did you mean that eelgrass can go thru the sea strainers into the coolers? Are the two brass plugs on the aft end of the cooler? My coolers are mounted on each engine across from each other facing the asile between the engines. If these are the correct plugs they are small and one has a pencil zink inside. How do you clean out the clog? I assume the cooler has to be removed. Since I was able to go faster on my return trip maybe some of the clog freed up. Where would it go? I am not up to speed (pun intended) on the cooler operation. I believe it is dual cooler. If I remember behind one brass plug is water that contains coolant from the heat exchanger system and the other is sea water.

Dave



__________________
DAVE
GOOD SPIRITS
500 CONSTELLATION (1987)
Back to Top Printable version View David Ross's Profile Search for other posts by David Ross
 
PAUL NJ
"Seaman Recruit"




Joined: November 09 2007
Posts: 7
Posted: November 09 2007 at 16:47 | IP Logged Quote PAUL  NJ

IS there any inherent-advantage to a 1988  500 vs an 85 - 6 or 7.

Which year has sort of a cream color vs white?

Has anyone seen anyone modify a 500 to provide simpler engine access?

I personally like the salon of the 500 vs the 501  but I do realize the big advantage of the walk in engine room. If I do get one--it will be more of a condo than a cruiser



__________________
A 500 OR 501 WILL BE MINE
SOMEDAY!
Back to Top Printable version View PAUL  NJ's Profile Search for other posts by PAUL  NJ
 
Pete37
"Commander"




Joined: November 12 2006
Posts: 2317
Posted: November 09 2007 at 18:40 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Dave,

Certain types and sizes of eelgrass will go right through the strainer and clog the transmission cooler at the input end.  There are two pipe plugs near the input end, one of which has a zinc and the the other is just a blank pipe plug.  When both plugs are removed you can look right through the cooler.  And if you look carefully with a flashlight you can see the cooler tubes.  Sometimes you will find that there is eelgrass partially plugging the tubes.  Stick a hose up to one of the pipe plug holes and blast out the eelgrass.  Just because you have gone through some seaweed doesn't mean that you automatically have a plugged tranny cooler.  But sometimes it does happen and this is an easy fix.  You don't have to remove the tranny cooler, just the two pipe plugs.

Frankly, that big strainer doesn't seem to be very effective.  In all the time I've had my boat I've never seen much debris in the strainer.  But I have had several times when the tranny cooler had a lot of crap in it.

To answer your questions directly; yes eeelgrass can go through the strainer and lodge in the tranny cooler.  And yes the two brass plugs are on the aft end of the cooler.  No the cooler doesn't have to be removed.  Yes, it is possible that some of the eelgrass went through the cooler and lodged elsewhere; probably in the intercooler or heat exchanger elements.  Or it might have gone all the way through and out the exhaust pipes.  The tranny cooler has seawater on one side of the tubes and oil on the other side of the tubes.  The tranny pumps the oil through the tranny cooler on the oil side and the raw water pump sucks raw water through the tranny cooler on the water side.  No there is no antifreeze in any part of the tranny cooler except perhaps when you have winterized your engines.

No the tranny cooler is not directly connected to the heat exchanger.  Water flows from the tranny cooler to the raw water pump, then through a metal pipe to the intercooler, then through the intercooler and a second metal pipe to the fuel cooler and then through a third metal pipe to the top end of the heat exchanger.  From the bottom of the heat exchanger it goes through a fourth metal pipe to the nozzle at the top end of the exhaust riser and is sprayed into the exhaust riser to keep the temperature of the engine exhaust gasses down.  Then it goes through the muffler and out the exhaust pipe.

Yes the whole cooling system is kind of messy.  The J&T owner's manual gives a pretty good description of the cooling system and the Detroit Diesel Series 92 shop manual does an even better job.  The cooling systems on both 671s and 6V92s are marginal and must be kept in top shape if you expect to maintain cruising speed without overheating.

Pete37

 



__________________
INTERLUDE
A Murray Chris Craft Constellation 500
Back to Top Printable version View Pete37's Profile Search for other posts by Pete37
 
Pete37
"Commander"




Joined: November 12 2006
Posts: 2317
Posted: November 09 2007 at 20:16 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Paul,

There isn't much difference between the 1985, 1986 or 1987 Connie 500s.  On 1985 Connies the radar arch was set further aft on some and many didn't have a radar arch.  Radar arches don't seem to have become a standard feature until 1986.  The wind screens were also molded fiberglass which was replaced in later years by flat sheets of fiberglass.  The swim platforms on most 85 Connies were mahogany while in later years they were fiberglass.  But other than these minor differences they are pretty much the same as 86 and 87 Connies. 

Somewhere in 1987 the 6V92TIs seem to have been replaced with 6V92TAs with 20 more horsepower.  But other than that the 86 and 87 models are nearly identical.

Up until late 1987 all the hulls were a cream color known as Hatteras Off-White.  Paint by that name exactly matches the hulls.  Late in 1987 or early in 1988 some of the hulls were made in white and most if not all 501s were made in white.  The 500 model was phased out starting in 1987 and was completely out of production by early 1988.  Only five 500s were built in 1988.  A few had double doors in the upper salon.

The major advantages of the 501s are the stand up engine room and the larger upper salon.  And many of the 501s were buillt with lighter colored interior wood paneling.  However, many people seem to prefer the double salon arrangement of the 500s.  The 501s are normally about $60K more expensive that the 500s.

Access to the engine room of the 500 is through three major hatches in the lower salon and one small hatch between the galley and dinnette.  The small hatch enters the generator compartment from which you then have to enter the engine room.  This method of access is quite adequate for purposes of checking the oil, batteries, cooling water, etc. but inadequate for any major maintenance or repair of the engines or other compnents in the engine room. 

Some owners insist on having the carpet over the main hatches in the lower salon firmly tacked down in the fashion found in houses.  This creates a major impediment to maintenance of the engines.  However, the carpets can be also be "loose laid" allowing them to be quickly peeled back when access to the engines is required.  The term "loose laid" brings up images of having everything in the lower salon moving about in a rough sea.  But the friction between the carpet and floor is quite adequate to hold everything in place.  With the carpet "loose laid" access to the engine room is more than adequate.  This is, I believe, the simpler access you were asking about.

If what you want is a houseboat the 500s are probably the best bet because of their lower cost.  The double salon arrangement also gives the husband and wife some separate "space" which is important on a live aboard yacht.  You will have to trade these factors off against the walk-in engine room in making your decison.  If cost is a major factor you ought to also consider the 460s.

Pete37



__________________
INTERLUDE
A Murray Chris Craft Constellation 500
Back to Top Printable version View Pete37's Profile Search for other posts by Pete37
 
David Ross
"Navigator"




Joined: January 02 2007
Posts: 452
Posted: November 09 2007 at 20:37 | IP Logged Quote David Ross

Hi Pete,

Thanks for the very informative and quick response to my cooler questions. Hopefully that will solve the overheating problem. If not it eleminates one possibility and I will have checked the condition of what I can see in the cooler.

Another thank you for the invite to the "Connie Friends" pot luck on December 1st. Sounds like fun and a go for us, but I will check with Admiral Sally on our schedule and family comittments. I will get back to you with a firm answer shortly. This has been a tough week. Don't know what is going down faster, the price of Connies or my retirement portfolio.

Dave



__________________
DAVE
GOOD SPIRITS
500 CONSTELLATION (1987)
Back to Top Printable version View David Ross's Profile Search for other posts by David Ross
 
PAUL NJ
"Seaman Recruit"




Joined: November 09 2007
Posts: 7
Posted: November 10 2007 at 09:19 | IP Logged Quote PAUL  NJ

Thanks Pete for the answers

Two problems that I have ---first, These engines are not real conducive to running slow--as is the case with most diesels and secondly, a half mile to the gallon is somewhere around $6.00 per mile---makes for an expensive trip. That said I still want a 500 or 501---and will start looking again. It has been 3-4 years since I have been on these boats and I will keep an open mind  on the 500 vs the 501.



__________________
A 500 OR 501 WILL BE MINE
SOMEDAY!
Back to Top Printable version View PAUL  NJ's Profile Search for other posts by PAUL  NJ
 
Pete37
"Commander"




Joined: November 12 2006
Posts: 2317
Posted: November 10 2007 at 10:34 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Paul,

Yes, your right.  Two gallons per mile at $3.00 per gallon is $6.00 per mile.  That's expensive and it's unlikely that prices will go down.  An active Connie owner does about 60 hours per year (that's based on engine hours).  At a cruising speed of 18 knots and 37 gph that would be 2220 gallons per year and at $3.00 per gallon the total cost will be  $6,660.  That's real scary. 

But a typical trip for most owners is about one hour of which 15 minutes is spent clearing the harbor at 6 knots.  Therefore each hour is effectively only 45 minutes of cruise speed running which drops your fuel consumption to 28 gph for a yearly fuel consumption of 1,665 gallons or $4,995 (still a considerable expense).

The obvious solution is to slow down but as you are aware, idle speed running is not good for diesels.  It gums them up and leads to premature major overhauls.  This is something you definitely don't want to do. 

In order to prevent engine damage you want to keep the engines up to at least the lower end of the normal operating temperature range which is 170 deg F.  The rpm at which your engines will reach that temperature is about 1300 rpm which gives you a speed of about 10.3 knots and a fuel consumption of about 12 gph for a net nmpg of 0.86.  Speed, rpm and gph vary slightly from boat to boat.  At an hourly fuel consumption of 12 gph yearly fuel consumption is 720 gallons or $2,160.

I prefer to cruise at 1400 rpm which gives me a speed of 10.7 knots and a fuel consumption of 14 gph (0.76 Nmpg). because I want to be a bit conservative on insuring that my engines are up to operating temp.  Engine temperature gauges aren't as accurate as one would like them to be.  I also occasionaly make runs at 2000 rpm for a cruise speed of 18.4 knots .  This naturally increases fuel consumption.

Last year I put 59 engine hours on the meters and burned 800.8 gallons (including fuel burned by the genny).  At this year's prices it would cost $2,402.  Connie owner's in the houseboat mode tend to use much less fuel.  Their biggest problem with fuel is using it up before it goes stale. 

A yearly use of 59 hours is not a low usage rate.  There is not a boat on my dock which comes anywhere near that.  A 20 to 30 hour per year rate is typical.  Most yachts are basically houseboats. 

A speed of 10.7 knots is what we generally call a fast trawler speed.  Cruising speed for most trawlers is about 8 knots.  I find that 10.7 knots is a very pleasant speed.  Engine noise is way down, the autopilot works beautifully and guests seem to appreciate the easy ride.  And of course when I'm in a rush (I try not to be) I still have the option of 18.4 knots anytime I want it.

Maintenance, dockage and insurance (in that order) are still your three largest expense items with fuel in the fourth spot.

Pete37



Edited by Pete37 on November 10 2007 at 10:42


__________________
INTERLUDE
A Murray Chris Craft Constellation 500
Back to Top Printable version View Pete37's Profile Search for other posts by Pete37
 
Banjoman
"First Mate"




Joined: July 02 2007
Posts: 553
Posted: November 10 2007 at 11:06 | IP Logged Quote Banjoman

Pete - as usual, you are spot on!  One additional comment if I may.  I love trawlers and trawler people.  Most are true water-people.  However, our Connies have about the same keel (and bigger in some cases) than many trawlers (blue water trawlers not withstanding).  With our vessels we have the option of trawling OR planning.  There is no option there if you own a trawler.  EX:  This year Shirley and I trawled to St. Mike's from Naptown.  Two and one half hours approx.   Just she and I and my step-son and his friend.  The weather was beautiful and, as you said, I set the auto-pilot and we enjoyed the trip over.  Next ex: we had guests on board with a limited time schedule.  We went to Rock Hall on plane, about an hour run.  There was a good chop so running at plane kept the trip smooth.  We returned with time for cocktails at the dock before our guests departed.  With a trawler, you've always got to allow for the 8/9 kt speeds.  With our boats, we can trawl at 10/11 kts with decent economy (and look at the comfort we carry) or cruise at 16/18 kts and burn more fuel but get there more quickly.  Again, I like having options in life and my 500 gives that to me.

And one more thing, forget this stuff about one hour trawl 20-30 min. on plane.  It's baloney!  I know folks with DD's that routinely cruise for 3/4 hrs and longer before a short run on plane.  As Pete said, just keep those engines temps up, maintain the engines regularly and you'll be fine. 



__________________
Capt. G. Emory Shover
m/v "SOUTHERN CHARM"
Eastern Marine Services, LLC
Marine Survey - Yacht Delivery
www.easternmarineservices.com
Back to Top Printable version View Banjoman's Profile Search for other posts by Banjoman
 
Ken27
"Deckhand"




Joined: December 12 2006
Posts: 138
Posted: November 10 2007 at 11:41 | IP Logged Quote Ken27

Pete or anyone else,

You've referenced the J&T owner's manual a number of times.  This is something I've been missing for a long time.  How can I get a copy?  I'd certainly be willing to buy a copy from someone.

Thanks again to all, for all the wisdom and good advice.

Ken



__________________
"The Good Life"
'85 500, Home port Nashville, TN,
Back to Top Printable version View Ken27's Profile Search for other posts by Ken27
 
PAUL NJ
"Seaman Recruit"




Joined: November 09 2007
Posts: 7
Posted: November 10 2007 at 11:52 | IP Logged Quote PAUL  NJ

I have never OWNED a diesel but have trolled many an hour on my brothers Viking. We would routinely shut down one engine. Detroits and Mans

Question--what happens to engine temps if you are just running one engine when slow cruising a Connie?



__________________
A 500 OR 501 WILL BE MINE
SOMEDAY!
Back to Top Printable version View PAUL  NJ's Profile Search for other posts by PAUL  NJ
 
Banjoman
"First Mate"




Joined: July 02 2007
Posts: 553
Posted: November 10 2007 at 11:59 | IP Logged Quote Banjoman

Ken - if I may suggest this; go to eBay and buy the DD Series 92 Service Manual for $20.  I did and they are worth every penny.  I have them loaded on my home computer, boat computer and laptop (as well as my PDA!).  These contain every torque spec, part number, etc. that you can ask for.  Another advantage is: you can print off a page and take it in the engine room with you and not worry about getting oil or grease on it.  If you do, just print another one. 

Although I have Covington engines, I believe that I have a J&T manual on board.  I'll be at the boat tomorrow and see if I can find it.  If I still have it, I'll try to remember to bring it home, make a copy and send it to you.  Maybe I can scan to PDF and forward via email.  Let you know

Here's the eBay link:  http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Detroit-Diesel-V-92-Series-Se rvice-Manual-on-CD_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ50441QQihZ014Q QitemZ330164981983QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWD1V



__________________
Capt. G. Emory Shover
m/v "SOUTHERN CHARM"
Eastern Marine Services, LLC
Marine Survey - Yacht Delivery
www.easternmarineservices.com
Back to Top Printable version View Banjoman's Profile Search for other posts by Banjoman
 
Fantasy
"Navigator"




Joined: November 30 2006
Posts: 324
Posted: November 10 2007 at 12:57 | IP Logged Quote Fantasy

Hi all,

We're on our annual migration from Georgetown MD to Florida and have reached our first layover port at Swansboro NC where we'll stay until after Thanksgiving.  I can relate to the discussion on the flexibility that our Connies offer.  Although we're slow-boaters, we always hit a couple of spots when the speed is a real salvation.

We generally travel around 8.5kn (about 10mph), assuming no current.  This is about 1350 rpm's on the Detroit 6-71TI's and we quickly reach operating temperatures of 165 (the normal range for the 6-71 is 160-185).  Temperatures are monitored on gauges with digital displays and verified with a handheld temperature gun at multiple locations.  Although the gauge and gun temperatures vary by a few degrees, they vary consistently so I can easily tell if we're moving out of normal range.

This speed gives us 1.2 nautical miles per gallon, vs .4 nmpg on plane.  Our travel days are anywhere from 6 to 10 hours and every day or two I put the boat on plane for several minutes.  Although engine coolant temperatures are in range when traveling at hull speed, the temperature of exhaust gasses is lower and unburned fuel tends to collect on the exhaust side of the engine (manifold, turbo, etc.).  This is evidenced by smoke whenever I come "out of the hole", which doesn't occur when running regularly at higher speeds.  Planing occasionally, probably helps prevent engine oil dilution from the unburned fuel.  On Fantasy, an annual oil analysis confirms no dilution or abnormal engine wear at 1600 hrs.

Every so often I think about getting a boat that is purpose-built for slow, economical running.  However, the money I would be out in the trade could buy an awful lot of fuel and I would probably end up with less boat.  I also totally concur that it helps to be able to get out of sloppy conditions as quickly as possible or to avoid them completely.

Best wishes to everyone.

John



__________________
"Fantasy"
460 Chris Craft Constellation
Back to Top Printable version View Fantasy's Profile Search for other posts by Fantasy
 
]
] ]
150 Pages « 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 »

  Post ReplyPost New Topic

] ] ]
]
  ]
Printable version Printable version
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
]
] ]

] ] ]
]
©2014, Boat Owners Association of The United States. All Rights Reserved.
This page was generated in 2.1250 seconds.
]
] ]