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NautiKall
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Joined: January 22 2014
Posts: 73
Posted: January 26 2014 at 17:37 | IP Logged Quote NautiKall

Pete,

I think you know more about sound attenuation than I do.  Does this make sense?  I think our 460's and 500,s have mufflers of the dissapative style which means that they are straight thru pipes with perforations in the pipe to allow sound elements to be absorbed into a packing of some sort to dampen the sound waves and noise frequencies.  When the mufflers are flooded with water, oils and soot and the packing is saturated, wouldn't they become less effective?

On the other hand the reactive style of muffler has an off-set between the incoming pipe and the discharge pipe.  The sound waves and frequencies are directed back and forth against each other through chambers allowing the waves in reverse direction to cancel out other waves to some degree.  This design is more effective but comes with a disadvantage of 1 to 1 1/2 psi of back pressure.  With our Detroits this is not important.  The high gas velocities easily overcome a slight back pressure and in fact, I've been told that Detroits run better with a little back pressure.  I looked into this when I installed my exhaust turn-outs.  Some engines discharge their exhaust under water.  I was encouraged to end my exhaust under water but I was afraid of the possibility of damage due to debris in the water.

The Cetek Vernatone mufflers have an off-set.  I think they are of the reactive type.  These mufflers should out perform what I have.  And water in the system wouldn't make a difference.

Your thoughts.

Bob K.


Edited by NautiKall on January 26 2014 at 18:19


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Pete37
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Joined: November 12 2006
Posts: 2317
Posted: January 26 2014 at 18:35 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Bob,

Subject: Muffler Theory

Regardless of what method Vernatone uses to make their mufflers they get very good results. And a company's manufacturing methods are usually considered by the manufacturer to be trade secrets. So they aren't likely to give us much info on the guts of their mufflers. If you want to know that cut one apart and examine the innards.

From a practical standpoint the mechanical envelop of the muffler must be very close to that of a Vernatone in order to fit our Connies. So that means the method used by the muffler will probably be very similar to Vernatone's.

But we are not muffler manufacturers we are just boat owners who need mufflers. So for starters, do a thorough search for other manufacturers who make better mufflers. If that fails then try to design better mufflers.

You have a very nicely made set of exhaust deflectors. But exhaust deflectors have been around for at least 50 years and haven't eliminated transom soot. Why do you think yours will?

One final comment. You have a rather odd concept of the distinction between scientists and engineers. Engineers use scientific principals to design useful products. So an engineer is always a scientist as well. Scientists also borrow from the principals used by engineers so they are usually engiineers as well. The distintion between engineer and scientist is very vague. I worked for NASA and was a scientist/engineer for 40 years.

Pete37

Edited by Pete37 on January 26 2014 at 18:41


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NautiKall
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Posted: January 26 2014 at 18:46 | IP Logged Quote NautiKall

Thank you.

Bob K.


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"NautiKall"
1985 Connie 460
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NautiKall
"Seaman"




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Posted: January 26 2014 at 19:00 | IP Logged Quote NautiKall

emory and dave,

Make sense to you?

Bob K.


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David Ross
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Joined: January 02 2007
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Posted: January 26 2014 at 19:51 | IP Logged Quote David Ross

I'm not and engineer or scientist, therefore I will not enter into that debate. Just remember to play nice guys. However I will make a few comments about the engine noise issue.

I did notice more noise with the bimini up. We later added a second bimini over the aft area of the flybridge and a full enclosure.Obviously the noise and fumes are reduced quite a bit with the strata-glass zipped closed. With all the windows openened I am not sure if the double bimini adds, reduces or keeps the noise level the same as a single bimini.

John, I did try 8" home furnace duct tubing on the exhausts as a test and template for length and angle. The swivel connection was ideal for adusting. However, I was trying to eliminate the transom soot problem and did not pay attention if it reduced any noise. There was less soot on the transom but some on each side of the boat now (there was no soot on the sides before). As you know from the discussions here, the soot issue was a matter of replacing turbos. I checked with Johnson and Towers and Detroit Diesel on their thoughts on max angel without a back pressue or possible engine problem. They both thought 90 degree would be ok. I asked if exhausts could be dumped into the water and they would not advise it and did not want to discuss it or maybe they were not sure. I tried at the time to find info on in water exhausting but got nowhere. The soot was gone and a was a happy camper... I mean cruiser.

It was mentioned the 500's aft deck over-hang may reduce exhaust noise. Perhaps the style of swim platform may also have an effect. Some are solid, some have cut outs,and some have custom set ups, including to around five feet deep.

 

 



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GOOD SPIRITS
500 CONSTELLATION (1987)
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Pats2nd Connie
"Deckhand"




Joined: June 28 2013
Posts: 157
Posted: January 26 2014 at 19:56 | IP Logged Quote Pats2nd Connie

I like the idea of deflecting the exhaust into the water. I am no
engineer nor scientist. At least not degreed. Would the DD's tolerate
that? I have seen that system on older Chris's that were gas burners.
You could divert the exhaust up or down.   Love reading the recent
posts from very knowledgeable authors.
Spent my day removing master head for multiple purposes. I am
wallpapering, replacing joker valve and cleaning A/C fins. They have
not been cleaned since new. I had to cut an access panel. I'm sure it
will work better.
I will also wallpaper the face of the upper cabinet to lighten up the
head.

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Pats2nd Connie
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Posts: 157
Posted: January 26 2014 at 20:03 | IP Logged Quote Pats2nd Connie

Dave, my boat came with a full fb enclosure, I have slowly been
removing it for heat and windage purposes. I am probably going to re-
install with more screen and less glass to protect us from noseeums.

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Spike166
"Seaman Recruit"




Joined: July 15 2013
Posts: 16
Posted: January 26 2014 at 20:03 | IP Logged Quote Spike166

Hello all, wow...I go to the boat for a couple of days and
this forum took off!

I got a couple of shots of what we now know is the riser,
sure looked like a muffler to me. One question I now have
is the thru-hull to the left of the riser in this pic (if it works).

26_194711_Riser.JPG">

The hose is T'd off the hose that goes to the riser. I would
assume the valve should normally be closed to prevent
water being diverted away from the exhaust. Question is,
what is the purpose of this set up?

Another shot which I won't post shows the manufacturer's
tag on the riser which I assume shows a part number. The
tag states Marine Manifold Corp followed by HO 628 on the
Port and HO 6285 on the Starboard. Sounds like they are
still in business so I may give them a call.

I took the access panel off the vanity in the aft head today
and can see the muffler is aft of that area as stated earlier.

As far as the turbo rebuild, I am using Young & Sons in
Indianapolis. This was close enough for me to just drive
them up and they gave me an estimate of $900 each. We
should have them back later this week and I'll let you know
the actual cost.

On the noise issue, I did notice it was louder if I opened all
3 panels on the aft curtains. It's not too bad if I just open
the center one. I'm sure the full enclosure traps the sound.

Now...let's see if this picture thing works for me.

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1986 Constellation 460
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Spike166
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Posts: 16
Posted: January 26 2014 at 20:11 | IP Logged Quote Spike166

OK, looks like no joy on the picture so I will try to describe it
better.

The hose leading to the riser is T'd with another hose going to
a gate valve above the water line. Again, I assume this valve
should be closed to prevent stealing water from the exhaust
system. If this is a correct assumption what is the purpose of
this valve?

Thanks

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Pete37
"Commander"




Joined: November 12 2006
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Posted: January 26 2014 at 20:31 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi All,

Subject: Exhaust Noise Reflection

I keep my boat under a covered shed and get about 7dB (5X) reduction in exhaust noise as soon as the boat comes out from under the shed. I'm not surprised that the Biminis also reflect the noise.

You can probably reduce the noise by shortening the bimini so that there is no direct path from the exhaust pipe area to the Bimini canvas. But that will also reduce the area protected from the sun.

It's a trade off; more sun less noise or less sun more noise.

Pete37

Edited by Pete37 on January 26 2014 at 20:34


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Fantasy
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Joined: November 30 2006
Posts: 324
Posted: January 26 2014 at 20:43 | IP Logged Quote Fantasy

Kevin,
Sorry you are have trouble posting pictures, they really do help explain.

I can't figure out what you are describing, as you can see from the riser picture I posted, I have no Tee in my set up. However, there is a school of thought that says that the typical exhaust system does not need as much water volume as is needed for internal engine cooling. So, they decrease water flow through the exhaust, which allows smaller diameter exhaust hoses (less gas and water volume = smaller hose requirement). In those cases, the excess water is diverted through a separate through-hull. Don't know why that would be needed unless your hoses aft of the riser are less than 8" diameter.

John

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Pats2nd Connie
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Posted: January 26 2014 at 20:48 | IP Logged Quote Pats2nd Connie

Sun protection is important to me. Noise reduction headphones it is.

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Grey Goose
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Posted: January 26 2014 at 20:50 | IP Logged Quote Grey Goose

Kevin
Sound to me like you have tell tails. They allow you to pump some
water over the side so that it is easy for you to see if the engines are
pumping water.

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Spike166
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Posts: 16
Posted: January 26 2014 at 20:58 | IP Logged Quote Spike166

John,

Thanks for the reply, that does make sense to me. So now
I wonder what the correct setting for the valve is? Fully
open, half, quarter...just don't touch them?

I have not noticed anything coming out of that thru hull but
never thought to look. Something else I will have to pay
attention to in the spring, I'd better start a list.

26_205724_Riser.JPG">

Thought I'd try again, file is 98.8 kb and I don't get an
error message...who knows.

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1986 Constellation 460
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NautiKall
"Seaman"




Joined: January 22 2014
Posts: 73
Posted: January 26 2014 at 21:23 | IP Logged Quote NautiKall

Hi guys, Thanks for your support.

I apologize for sharing information and creating activity on a number of issues that I thought might be of interest to others.  After reading the posts for a number of years I should have been more aware of the hazards. I thought we were all past that for the new year.

I retired from being an engineering manager 20 years ago and after that have only been a volunteer for the Boy scouts, church, university and civic groups providing technical support and construction expertise.  I have not had experience working for government funded agencies where you can hire your opinions and don't have to be creative.

Dave,
Good to here you no longer have soot on your transom.  While reading the posts over the last 5 years, my opinion was that the cause of boats with soot problems was probably caused by high flow fuel injectors and the boats being over propped. My impression was that the 500's usually run 30" x 30".  My 460 runs just fine with N-90 injectors and 25 1/2" x 29" dia. props.

Just an opinion. Better check with Pete.

Pat,
I considered putting my turn-outs in the water but I was worred about back pressure and physical damage from debris or damage when backing to a shore line when docking in a transient location.
My opinion is that a full fly bridge enclosure can be a hazard on windy days.  We don't have problems with no see-ems, but have had some harrowing experiences backing into slips between posts at marinas on the Great Lakes.

Better check with Pete.

Kevin,
It's possible that the hose to the thru-hull might be for winterizing and drainage.

You might want to check with Pete.

Bob K.



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Pete37
"Commander"




Joined: November 12 2006
Posts: 2317
Posted: January 26 2014 at 21:46 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi All,

Subject: Posting Pictures

How many of you guys who are trying (unsuccessfully) to post pictures get the small window below (called the Browse Window) in the upper left corner of your screen after clicking on the icon with the up arrow?



The window is smaller than shown here.

Pete37

Edited by Pete37 on January 26 2014 at 21:58


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Spike166
"Seaman Recruit"




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Posts: 16
Posted: January 26 2014 at 21:58 | IP Logged Quote Spike166

Pete,

That's what I get. I chose the file, hit OK and it inserts the file name in
my post but no picture. Am I missing a step?

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Kevin
1986 Constellation 460
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Pete37
"Commander"




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Posted: January 26 2014 at 22:03 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Kevin,

Do you search through your computer and get a file that you know is less than 100kB and 5" wide? Type in the name of the file that it gives you.

Pete37

Edited by Pete37 on January 26 2014 at 22:06


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eshover
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Joined: July 02 2011
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Posted: January 26 2014 at 22:34 | IP Logged Quote eshover

Test26_223357_Scupper_and_Banjo.jpg">

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Pete37
"Commander"




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Posted: January 26 2014 at 22:37 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Emory,

Subject: Want to learn how to post pictures?

Pete37

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eshover
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Posted: January 26 2014 at 23:04 | IP Logged Quote eshover

I just tried a picture that was approx. 50kb. Negative
result. I don't have the time to screw with this. So
pictures are out for me.

As for exhaust turn-outs. Many posts back, we beat this
horse to death. I have come to this conclusion; what ever
works for you, works for you. I used to take my boat out
for a couple of hours and come back with soot on the
transom. This occurred whether I planned the boat or
trawled. It was much less trawling due to not spooling up
the turbos. I installed the 45 degree turn-outs. Since that
time, I've had negligible soot accumulation on my transom.
That's not to say that extended running up on plane won't
produce a soot covered transom.
Last September we cruised from Annapolis to Crisfield, an
approximate 90 nautical mile trip. I ran for an hour at
trawl speed of 10 to 11 kts. Then on plane for a half hour
to put some heat in the engines and then back to trawl for
approx. 6 hours, then on plane for a half hour prior to
heading into Kedges Straights and into Tangier Sound. I
basically repeated this process on the trip back. The soot
on my transom upon arrival and nil, as well as the return
trip. I was very pleased. All this with a slight turbo
exhaust leak.

So. I am officially a fan of the exhaust turn-outs.   That,
and look look cool. Many boat builders have been using
them for many, many years. So I assume there is a reason
other than "they look cool". :)

As much as I hate to do, I fear I must remove my
starboard turbo and either find the exhaust leak or send
the turbo off for rebuild. Make me sad. I have spent so
much money over the years chasing exhaust leaks and
smoke, soot, etc. That I have often regretted getting rid of
my 381. In my opinion, 8V71's would have been a better
choice for the 500's. But I will persevere.

Emory


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eshover
"Deckhand"




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Posted: January 26 2014 at 23:08 | IP Logged Quote eshover

Pete - I used to post pictures but I must being getting senile.
I bring up the "image upload" window, I choose a picture well
below the 100 kb requirement. I wait for the upload and get
no picture. So what other archaic steps am I missing to
simply post a picture on this site?

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NautiKall
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Posted: January 27 2014 at 00:00 | IP Logged Quote NautiKall

460 guys,

Attached is a photo of a convenient add which is easy to do.  I installed a 12" West Marine hand grab just forward of each aft corners above the side hawse pipes to hang a fender on.  The 460's as provided  don't have a good way to hang a fender aft to protect the corners and swim platform when you are in a lock.  It's also convenient for hanging a fender when in a slip.  Ann hangs the fender from the side window using a strap hanger and adjusts the height as necessary with the cam roller device.  You can also use the hand grab to manuver the boat around when standing on the dock.


Bob K.


Edited by NautiKall on January 27 2014 at 00:57


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Pats2nd Connie
"Deckhand"




Joined: June 28 2013
Posts: 157
Posted: January 27 2014 at 07:49 | IP Logged Quote Pats2nd Connie

Bob you make some very good points.
Things must be running just right on my 6v92's as I have had no soot
buildup. The reason I would consider turnouts would be for noise
reduction.
A friend of mine installed a sliding track below the rub rail, similar to
what would be on a sailboat deck for adjustment of jib sheet. He can
slide the cars to wherever to hang fenders. I have upside down j-
hooks just below the the handrails on the inside of the poopdeck.
I have given up posting photos here. The FB page makes it much
easier for us simpletons. I don't understand why we just don't move
this site to FB. No cost, with several tech advantages.
Patrick

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Grey Goose
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Posted: January 27 2014 at 09:41 | IP Logged Quote Grey Goose

I can upload photos on my windows XP Pro computer, can't on Windows 7 or ipad.

What operating system do you have?



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Fantasy
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Posted: January 27 2014 at 10:01 | IP Logged Quote Fantasy

Bob,
That's a good solutions to the fender hanging problem. I usually put a fender on the dock or a piling. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

Here is another tip for 460 owners. Handling the aft lines can be a pain with no cockpit. My boat has a permanently fastened short line with a carabiner clip on the end. It tucks up through the hawespipe and into the cleat cabinet when traveling. Before docking, I pull out the clip and attach my lines on the loop end. I use a sunbrella cover for chaffing protection.


John

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Pete37
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Joined: November 12 2006
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Posted: January 27 2014 at 13:24 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Emory,

Subject: Give Me a Break

Yesterday, I asked you whether you wanted to learn how to post pictures. All I was expecting was an answer of "yes". At that point I would have guided you through the picture posting process.

Instead you repeated a picture posting process that you had previously tried (with no success) and naturally it still didn't work. At that point you gave up and went off on diatribes about other subjects. After which you signed off.

Gived me a break Emory. I'll need at least 15 minutes of interactive time with you on the forum to explain the process.

I can post a picture in 30 seconds; 10 of which are wasted waiting for the forum to react.

Pete37

PS: The other steps are to make your post and then reopen it.

Edited by Pete37 on January 27 2014 at 14:54


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Pete37
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Posted: January 27 2014 at 13:52 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Bob,

That's a rather nasty and opinionated comment about government agencies. Government agencies certainly aren't perfect but we don't hire our opiniions and we are creative. NASA, in particular was extremely creative.

Since you admit you have no eperience working in government agencies you obviously don't know anything about them. Therefore I think you should retract that statement.

Pete37

Edited by Pete37 on January 27 2014 at 13:56


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NautiKall
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Posted: January 27 2014 at 13:54 | IP Logged Quote NautiKall

Pat and John,

Thanks for two more good ideas. 

Re: hanging fenders.  When we lock thru we usually hang two fenders aft and two fenders just forward of mid.  The rub rail on our big boats is usually above the lock wall at the high level and the hull could be against the concrete wall.  Therefore one fender is on the rub rail and a lower fender is against the hull at each location.  Because of the hull flare at the bow we usually hang a large ball forward of the mid fenders just below the rubrail.

We hang one aft fender from the grab rail and keep it high because if hanging at the water line level, it can kick out behind the boat if the boat rolls forward.  The second fender is hung a little more forward and at the water line from the hand rail where the handrail joins the boat side.  Having removed the decorative side panel, this is now more aft and in line with power cord connection location.  Pat, this the perfect place for the inside up-side-down J-hook.  It's a tight fit to get the plastic hanger strap around the mahogany hand rail.

Bob K.


Edited by NautiKall on January 27 2014 at 13:57


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NautiKall
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Posted: January 27 2014 at 14:21 | IP Logged Quote NautiKall

Pete,

Yes sir.  I worked regularly with OSHA, EPA, ATF and many other state and local agencies.  I've read recently that private industry is now doing what NASA used to do.  I have a very clear understanding how government agencies work.  Is this a contest?

Unfortunately a word spoken cannot be retracted. You asked for it.

Bob K.


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"NautiKall"
1985 Connie 460
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Pats2nd Connie
"Deckhand"




Joined: June 28 2013
Posts: 157
Posted: January 27 2014 at 14:30 | IP Logged Quote Pats2nd Connie

Yes, I forgot you have a 460 without the poopdeck. That must present
some difficulty while docking or locking through.

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Patrick hoffman
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Pete37
"Commander"




Joined: November 12 2006
Posts: 2317
Posted: January 27 2014 at 14:38 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Bob,

Yes Bob, NASA has turned a lot of its older technology over to industry. It is part of NASA's charter to do that.

Google Earth is a classic example of that. They now show hi-res pictures of the entire earth taken with a camera that I helped design. I can tell whether a Connie is a 460 or 500 from space. But I guess that's not creative. Have you created anything like that?

Certainly any statetment written or spoken can be retracted by it's author. But only if he is responsible enough to do that.

Pete37

Edited by Pete37 on January 27 2014 at 14:43


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INTERLUDE
A Murray Chris Craft Constellation 500
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NautiKall
"Seaman"




Joined: January 22 2014
Posts: 73
Posted: January 27 2014 at 14:44 | IP Logged Quote NautiKall

Interested muffler guys,

I talked to the technical department at Centek Industries.  The engineer connected immediately with the muffler issue we have been debating.  He said that Centek has never packed their mufflers with sound deadening materials.  Their older model Vernatone mufflers, which are what we have on our 80's vintage boats, reduce sound by 16-17 db's.  They did not reduce noise by 98%.

The new Vernatone Mark II dual stage mufflers reduce the sound by 25-30 db's.  He said our 2 cycle Detroits will not be as quiet as current 4 cycle engines, but that we would definitely notice a big difference.  The mark II's are a little longer in the 8" exhaust pipe size.

I talked with our boat yard owner, who is the go-to guy in the area and he and I are going to look at the doability of the project on my boat in the next several days.  The mufflers cannot be bought direct from Centek.  We are shopping the market for the best price.

Bob K.


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"NautiKall"
1985 Connie 460
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NautiKall
"Seaman"




Joined: January 22 2014
Posts: 73
Posted: January 27 2014 at 14:52 | IP Logged Quote NautiKall

Pete,

I quit. Your opinion trumps mine.

Bob K.


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"NautiKall"
1985 Connie 460
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Pete37
"Commander"




Joined: November 12 2006
Posts: 2317
Posted: January 27 2014 at 15:34 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Bob,

Subject: Mufflers

It doesn't surprise me that in 29 years the muffllers have improved by 12 dB. What surprises me is that it's only 12 dB. So the old mufflers that came with our Connies only reduce the sound to 2.24% rather than 2.0% while the new one will reduce it by 30 dB to (0.1%)..

Are you willing to spend $3,200 for a 2.14% reduction of exhaust noise? That's so small that it will be hard to even measure. And of course that's only exhaust noise. Engine noise, wind noise, wave noise, hull noise, etc. will remain the same and most of them will be larger than your exhaust noise.

The go-to-guy must be having a real chuckle on this one. And he must really be salivating about the profits.

Pete37

Edited by Pete37 on January 27 2014 at 16:00


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INTERLUDE
A Murray Chris Craft Constellation 500
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Fantasy
"Navigator"




Joined: November 30 2006
Posts: 324
Posted: January 27 2014 at 16:09 | IP Logged Quote Fantasy

A key issue is whether or not the mufflers are beginning to fail. I know the internal configuration of the muffler is proprietary but they must include some type of baffle or perforated plates. Do these wear out like everything else on the boat? Is it possible that we are not getting 16-18 dB reduction? What is the life expectancy of the new vs. old mufflers?

John

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"Fantasy"
460 Chris Craft Constellation
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NautiKall
"Seaman"




Joined: January 22 2014
Posts: 73
Posted: January 27 2014 at 16:43 | IP Logged Quote NautiKall

John,

Old mufflers:  I asked the same question of the engineer at Centek.  He said no, they would not have deteriorated unless the muffler had been heat damaged and then they could leak.  I asked him if the mufflers run hot when in use.  He said no, not when being used properly with water running thru the exhaust.  In fact he said that it wasn't really necessary to insulate the mufflers except for control of latent heat after you shut down.

He said that the old Vernatone mufflers just were not as good as the Vernatone Mark II dual stage units.  He also said that there was no way the old Vernatone mufflers reduced engine noise introduced to them by 98% as has been reported on this forum.

On a previous post someone, maybe you, stated that you wanted to install turn-outs not so much for soot, but to reduce noise.  I think they work for soot control because you deliver the exhaust into the curl of the stern wave.  Different air is then introduced to the transom due to the station wagon effect.  The turn-outs didn't have a noticeable effect on noise.

We travel with a 310 Zodiak tilted up and a 9.9 Mercury on the swim platform.  They are always clean.

Bob K.


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"NautiKall"
1985 Connie 460
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Pete37
"Commander"




Joined: November 12 2006
Posts: 2317
Posted: January 27 2014 at 19:01 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Bob,

Subject: Mufflers

You are making statements that are not true. I never said that the mufflers currently in our Connies reduced the noise by 98%. I said the mufflers currently advertised by Centek had a noise absorbtance of 16 dB to 18 dB depending on the type of engine. That's an average of 17 dB which is an absorbtance of 50:1 which makes the thruput 2% and the absorbtance 98%.

As I mentioned in the post the identification of the muffler was preliminary and we would have to wait to get the exact model number from Centec. But for some unknown reason when we call Centek they seem to be unwilling or unable to define what muffler they are speaking of or what it's exact specifications are or were.

It's also obvious that Centec is being pushed to make the conclusion that their old mufflers should be replaced. And it is likely that they will because they stand to get thousands of dollars if they do but nothing if they conclude the mufflers are OK. This leads us to the awkward position of not being able to believe Centek.

At this point we don't even know exactly what mufflers we have or what specs they originally had. But Centek says they don't deteriorate so if we can find the original specs we will know what we have now. We need some documentary evidence on what the original specifications were. If this is not possible the only way to solve the puzzle is to test the mufflers.

Getting evidence on a 27 year old muffler is difficult but companies do keep historical records of their products and advertisements and there are old marine catalogs. If Centek can't find the specs I will suspect its because they don't want to.

This leaves Connie owners who may be contemplating new mufflers with the awkward situation of having to buy mufflers for $3,200 which may be only marginally better than the ones they have.

I think I will wait until spring when we can do some testing. The tests we already have tend to indicate they are working reasonably well.

Pete37

Edited by Pete37 on January 27 2014 at 19:16


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NautiKall
"Seaman"




Joined: January 22 2014
Posts: 73
Posted: January 27 2014 at 19:29 | IP Logged Quote NautiKall

Pete,

I suggest you read your post on page 145 dated Jan 26,2014 at 15:42. Second paragraph.  What are we to believe?  Do you want to retract your statement?

Bob K.


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"NautiKall"
1985 Connie 460
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Grey Goose
"Deckhand"




Joined: October 25 2009
Posts: 200
Posted: January 27 2014 at 19:33 | IP Logged Quote Grey Goose

Bob
You're wasting your time. Trust me. How are you making out on Face
Book?

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-- Goose --
"Grey Goose"
1987 Chris Craft 501
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