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Delaware Jim
"Navigator"




Joined: December 27 2006
Posts: 381
Posted: January 10 2012 at 14:19 | IP Logged Quote Delaware Jim

All,

This is my last post on this forum.  I am sick and tired of the "holier than thou" and "my way is the only way" mentailty.  I have tried to present ideas for consideration and discussion of "cost/benefit" viewpoints which are only pissed on by acertain party.  But in closing, I'd like to add a couple of FACTS for your consideration: 

1.  This person today posted about the Honda EU2000 gennies.  I raised this point over a week ago when on 1/2 I stated "The idea of purchasing a commercially built small genny on the bow is also interesting... need too look at the physical sizes (fit inside a dock box?) and mounting locations." Apparently he does not bother reading other posts, then posting the same ideas over again...

2. This person has gone into a "HOLY WAR" about deep cycle batteries. I presented a different viewpoint that a lower initial cost option may not be as elegant or effective, but maybe could meet the need.  I agreed that deep cycle are preferable and stated it was a "no brainer" when John alerted me to the NAPA batteries only 10% premium over standard batteries.  The "engineer" does not seem to appreciate the concepts of cost/benefit analysis.

3.  I end this discussion with the following - I discussed with Melissa at Tripp Lite (773-869-1092) today the APS2012 in marine use.  She stated while it would work well, they have another model MRV2012UL they specifically recommend for marine use.  Further she stated their web site is being modified to specifically make that statement.  The cost of this unit is quoted at $589, or $9 higher than I found the APV2012 unit.  I do not need to rely on a "warm fuzzy feeling" that I get when I believe a "marine purveyor" has only my best interests at heart.

My final tally of costs for my system, including an inverter specifically recommended for marine use and deep cycle batteries (same as the engineer) is:

Item Model  Cost  Source
Inverter Tripp Lite MRV2012UL  $                   589 Provantage.com
2000W AC/100 amp charge      
Rewiring    $                   500 local procurement
Batteries (4) NAPA 4D Deep Discharge  $               1,024 NAPA website
Battery Boxes custom build-space issues  $                   100 estimate
TOTAL  $              2,213

This is just 55% of the total $ the "engineer" came up with (without the refrigerator), in a SAFE and efficient arrangement.  Can this be understood??! You be the judge

I am planning on starting a different location where Connie owners can communicate about "everything Connies" without the pettiness and "my way or the highway" attitutes herein.

Jim



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"Still In the Mood"
1985 Chris Craft 500 Constellation
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Pete37
"Commander"




Joined: November 12 2006
Posts: 2317
Posted: January 10 2012 at 20:44 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Jim,

Subject: Sorry

Sorry you feel that way.  I listen to all ideas but think that I also have a right to opinions and to present alternative ideas.  How else can we “consider and discuss the cost/benefit aspects” of your ideas.  Presenting alternative viewpoints is not “pissing on your ideas”.

But if you think I’m ignoring your inputs or pissing on your ideas I apologize.   That was not my intent.

Back on January 2, we were talking diesel generators.  At that point “gasoline” hadn’t even entered our vocabularies. You may have mentioned a commercial genny but you didn’t do anything about it and you didn’t present any details.  I’ve also been mentioning commercial diesel gennys for more than a month but couldn’t find one that fit the bill.

My hang-up was that I didn’t like the idea of a gasoline generator.  Still don’t but they are the only thing that does the job at a reasonable price. Using a gas generator is a new idea that others may have had in the back of their minds but so far all others have eschewed it because of safety concerns.  But after thinking about it I concluded that since we seem to be able to get along with gasoline outboard motors we should be able to live with gasoline generators. So now I’m bringing the gas generator idea up.

I did not start out looking for a genny which would fit in a deck box.  I was looking for an inexpensive genny that would produce some power and fit my budget.  Diesel gennys were just too expensive so I started looking at gasoline powered gennys.  After, selecting the Honda EU2000i I noticed it would fit in a deck box so I thought you would be interested and mentioned it in the post.  However, as long as it’s a gas powered genny it can never be used in a deck box. That will have to wait to see how the CNG idea works out.  BTW, there are dozens of other small gas generators (some at much lower prices) which would fit the bill.

There was no deep cycle battery “Holy War”.  I just presented the facts.  You are not the only person on the forum and other people may want to know what the potential problems with starting batteries are.  But I would be wary of any vender who says he can sell a deep discharge battery for 10% more than a starting battery.  There is no standard definition of what a deep discharge battery is so the only thing “deep discharge” about that battery may be the price and label.  Engineers do understand cost/benefit tradeoffs.  We spend a lot of time looking at all the options.  We are also pretty savvy about looking for rip-offs. 

If you are going to pay $1,024 for four 4Ds ($256 each) you probably are getting a true deep discharge battery because ordinary 4D starting batteries cost only $160 so you are paying a 60% markup (not 10%). That’s a good deal if it’s really a deep discharge battery.  And it’s almost twice the $133 price of the Autozone knockoff starting batteries you started with.  So apparently the “Holy War” had an effect.  I think you will be happy with that decision.

I’ve been aware of the MRV2012 for quite some time but didn’t bring it up in a post because it shares the same problems as the APS2012 which go far beyond simple waterproofing.  After all for $9 more you can’t really expect much of a difference. As of yesterday the MRV2012 had not been specifically recommended for marine service on the web.  I guess you’ve never really been acquainted with an engineer because engineers don’t work on the basis of “warm fuzzy feelings”. 

I don’t have a problem with your latest table other than the selection of the MRV2012UL.  I’ve read the specs on that unit and still find them sorely lacking in the battery charging capabilities compared to the Magnum ME2012.  And since you have now selected more expensive batteries you will want a sophisticated charger to protect them.  I still think the ME2012 would be worth the additional $600 but it’s your decision because you’re paying the bills.  I hope you are aware of the problems.

The system you have now outlined should work with the 2 hour charge, 3 hour discharge cycle we discussed just after Christmas.  But it will only produce an average of about 500 watts during the discharge periods.

I’ve never been happy with the 500 watt diet.  Being an engineer I always think there’s an engineering way to do better and that’s why I’m talking about gas gennys.  By buying the genny I can back off on the cost of the batteries and inverter and thereby pay for most of the cost of the genny.  And at the same time I get 1600 watts for as long as I want it.  But that’s another of those cost/benefit analyses that you say we engineers never do.  Here is the result:

Item

Cost

Honda EU2000i Inverter/Generator

$900

Freedom HF 1800W/40 Amp Inverter/Charger

$620

Four golf cart 6 volt deep discharge batteries

$880

Two battery boxes  (use old boxes)

$0

Replace old fridge (parts & labor)

$0

Total

$2400

The generator costs $900, a reduced capability inverter/charger $620 and four golf cart batteries $880.  The total is $2400. I probably won't need to do any rewiring.  I'll just feed in through the existing 30 amp shore power plug. I can use the existing battery boxes and with the auxilairy gennny I won't need to replace the fridge. This assumes the auxiliary genny runs while the main genny is off and that the inverter/charger is only used for short periods.  With a genny running 24/7 the batteries should reach 100% (rather than 75%) of full charge thereby increasing the useable charge by 100% and also drastically reducing sulphation.

Pete37, 1/10/12



Edited by Pete37 on January 10 2012 at 21:47


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INTERLUDE
A Murray Chris Craft Constellation 500
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Pete37
"Commander"




Joined: November 12 2006
Posts: 2317
Posted: January 11 2012 at 09:39 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi All,

Subject: Honda CNG Genny

Here's a picture of the Honda EU2000i genny modified for use of CNG:

This system could perhaps be fitted into a deck box as Jim wanted.  And it's all put together for only $1280.  Not sure I want to recommend it to you yet though.  Need to investigate the dangers of CNG.

Pete37



Edited by Pete37 on January 11 2012 at 09:50


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TStellato
"Deckhand"




Joined: August 12 2007
Posts: 206
Posted: January 11 2012 at 20:22 | IP Logged Quote TStellato


Tony and I are from a different arena.  We only anchor out 1 or 2 nights at a time and we run our genny when we need power.  We have thought about an invertor but so far have not seemed to need it.  Different strokes for different folks.


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Tony and Vicki
FIVE STAR
1985 Constellation
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Pete37
"Commander"




Joined: November 12 2006
Posts: 2317
Posted: January 11 2012 at 21:50 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi All,

Subject: Year End Wrap Up

I started re-reading our 2011 posts tonight to see what we accomplished last year.  It’s a slow job and I’ve only finished about 10% thus far.  But I noticed right away that Jim and I have been discussing the trade-offs between the inverter/charger and auxiliary generator modes of obtaining off-shore AC power since last January.

Actually for me there is no off-shore.  I keep my boat on the Chesapeake and there are close-by shores everywhere you look.  The nearest off-shore is the Atlantic Ocean nearly 150 miles away.  We don’t get there very often and when we do we hug the shoreline.  There’s no point in going off-shore.  The nearest off-shore point is Bermuda nearly 600 miles away.

To me “offshore” means anchoring out away from the expensive marinas.  The more I think about it, the Honda EU2000i genny looks like the simplest and least expensive solution.  If I leave it on the swim platform I’m not worried about gasoline fires so the CNG route, while it looks practical, will have to wait until next year.  By laying out $899 I immediately have 1600 watts of off-shore AC power for as long as I want it. 

By running the auxiliary genny for 6 to 7 hours in the evening I can get the batteries up to 100% charge so I’ve got about 225 AH of useable charge.  This will get me through the 8 hour night at 28 amp average draw (336 watts). That isn’t much but there’s very little power draw while you're asleep so I can shut the genny down for a peaceful night’s sleep.

Buying the genny gives me instant gratification.  I have instant off-shore AC power with no mods to the boat.  Larger and deep cell batteries can wait until later.  Similarly, the inverter/charger is a nicety that can wait for another year.  At $120 per night for a marina slip the genny will pay for itself in about a week.  And when not on the boat it will stand guard at the house against power shutdowns.

I broached the subject to the Admiral today and it looks like a shoe-in.  I’ll probably order it in May.  Good luck with your deep discharge batteries, inverter/chargers, battery boxes, etc. Jim.  I’m going to enjoy my anchoring out without any further delay.

This poem aptly describes my attitude:

On the Ancient Wall of China
where a Brooding Buddha Blinks
Deeply graven is the message
"It is later than you think"

The Clock of Life is wound but once
And No Man has the Power
To tell just when the hands will stop
.... At Late or Early Hour

Now is All the Time you Own
The Past a Golden Link
Go Cruising now My Brother
"It's Later than you Think!"

Pete37, 1/11/12



Edited by Pete37 on January 11 2012 at 22:21


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INTERLUDE
A Murray Chris Craft Constellation 500
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Pete37
"Commander"




Joined: November 12 2006
Posts: 2317
Posted: January 12 2012 at 13:00 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi All,

Subject:  The Use of Portable Generators on Boats

I checked into what the Coast Guard says about the use of portable gennys on boats.  Basically they don’t approve or disapprove of them because they are not permanently installed.  That statement was dated in 2003.  Don’t know what’s happened since then but I searched the web and couldn’t find anything that indicates that policy has been changed.

However, if you permanently install or attach the generator in any way all hell breaks loose and you are up to your eyeballs in regulations.  So mounting it in a deck box is probably out regardless of what fuel the genny uses.  You might be able to store it in a deck box but even that is probably going to stretch the tolerance of a Coast Guard inspector.

There has been a lot of talk on forums about using portable gennys on boats and in general the only location that seems safe is the swim platform.  Surprisingly most of the worries are about carbon monoxide in the exhaust fumes not fuel vapors.  Permanently installed gennys also spew out carbon monoxide and there are a lot of warnings about swimming behind a boat that has its genny running.  So there are problems with even the swim platform as a location for the genny.

The Honda EU2000i is one of the favorite portable gennys and most owners seem delighted with them.

Pete37



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INTERLUDE
A Murray Chris Craft Constellation 500
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Pete37
"Commander"




Joined: November 12 2006
Posts: 2317
Posted: January 12 2012 at 23:21 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi All,

Subject: Re-Reading the 2011 Posts

Yesterday I started re-reading the 2011 posts.  Last night I said I was about 10% through.  I was wrong; I was only through a couple percent.  I resolved tonight to complete the re-reading of the January 2011 posts and to take notes on what we talked about.

There were about 180 posts in January, 2011 and about 90% were about battery powered inverter/charger offshore power systems.  I can’t believe how much time was wasted on the subject.  We have a small group that is fixated on this subject and never talk or think about anything else.

On January, 1st I made a post in which I mentioned that because the weather was so warm (50F) I had washed the soot off the transom of my boat.  Soot was a big problem and a big topic in 2010.  Amazingly, by accident, we found the cause of the soot and eliminated it.  The last time I washed soot off the transom of my Connie was in June, 2011 and on January 1st the transom was still soot free.  So we made some progress in 2011.

There were also a couple posts on January 1st about the OpenCPN charting program and some problems with Jim’s oil senders.  Then the topics changed to batteries, battery chargers, inverters, alternators, house battery banks, AGM batteries, gel cell batteries, deep discharge batteries, starting batteries, golf cart batteries, inverter/generator switching, inverter switch panels, modified sine wave inverters, true sine wave inverters, diodes, battery combiners, battery boxes, battery box construction, etc., etc., etc. and everything else about battery powered inverter/charger off-shore AC power systems. And then we went over the same topics again and again although not necessarily in that order.

On January 16th the subject briefly shifted to varnish and on the 17th and 18th to toilets.  And on the 19th and 20th there was some discussion of the Fireboy system.  But by the 21st we were back on off-shore AC power systems and stayed there for the rest of the month.

I’ll try to report on February, 2011 tomorrow but I think it’s going to largely be a repetition of January, 2011.

Pete37



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A Murray Chris Craft Constellation 500
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Pete37
"Commander"




Joined: November 12 2006
Posts: 2317
Posted: January 13 2012 at 21:46 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi All,

Subject: Re-Reading the February, 2011 Posts

Around the 1st of February Arlene and I left for a month’s vacation in Ft. Lauderdale. I took a laptop to keep up with the status of the Forum.

There were only 40 posts in February, 2011 about 1.3 per day.  In contrast to January very few were about battery powered offshore AC power systems.  Several of the forum members went south to Florida and  the Bahamas.  For a few the move to Florida was permanent. For the others it was a temporary winter vacation. Therefore there were quite a few posts about travel to Florida and the Bahamas but not much else.  I guess the travel reduced the posting and the preoccupation with offshore power systems.

On February 1, Vicki started the month with a post on her lawsuit with Viking Yachts of Annapolis over excessive repair charges.  On the 5th Jim announced his pending permanent move to Florida scheduled for mid-April.  On the same date Furman announced a pending move to Ft. Pierce City Docks scheduled for June or July.  He also mentioned a problem with his transmission dipstick breaking off and how he fixed it.  I’ve had the same problem but fixed it in a different way.

Dave Ross announced he was in Fort Lauderdale and headed for the Bahamas.  I made a post about my plans for remodeling the Office/Den into a workshop/storage area.  By the 7th Dave was in the Abacos.  On the 10th Jim mentions he is having problems with his hydraulic steering cylinder.  John comments on it and says he found it easier (and cheaper) to repair the part than to buy a replacement part from the manufacturer.

On the 12th Dave Ross comments on the Connies for sale and the fact that there are now more 501s than 500s for sale.  He wonders why.  On the 14th Jim get his hydraulic cylinder fixed and comments that he is now a happy camper.  On the 14th I submitted the web address of an excellent article on deep discharge battery principles and practice.

On the 19th Vicki describes the use of her office/den and comments that it is similar to my workshop/storage area plans.  On the same day I posted a review of the Voyager’s Handbook and the chapters on how they handle their offshore power needs in particular.  On the 23rd a discussion of the Jefferson Monticello and it’s similarities to the Constellation started.  Numerous comments ensued.

On the 27th I posted a report on the Miami Boat Show.  Jim reports he is ready to leave for Florida.  On the 28th and last day of February, Arlene and I started back to Maryland from Florida by car. 

I haven’t commented on all the posts.  Many were routine, had no particular importance or were repeats of previous posts.  I’m glad to say that I was wrong and February was not a repeat of January’s preoccupation with offshore power systems.  Tomorrow, I’ll re-read the March, 2011 posts and comment on them.

Pete37



Edited by Pete37 on January 13 2012 at 22:04


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INTERLUDE
A Murray Chris Craft Constellation 500
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Pete37
"Commander"




Joined: November 12 2006
Posts: 2317
Posted: January 14 2012 at 21:25 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi All,

Subject: Plan for Installation of Auxiliary AC Generator

The figure below shows my preliminary plan for integrating a Honda EU2000i genny into the existing AC power system on my Connie:

 

Basically, everything in the diagram except the inverter and AC selector switch already exist on a Connie.  This is the system that Jim and several others have been trying to build or in some cases have already built.  At the moment my Connie does not have the inverter or AC selector switch.

Initially, this year, I plan to buy a 1600 watt Honda EU2000i portable gas generator for about $900.  It will be mounted and used on the swim platform to eliminate the problems with gas vapors.  A cable will be run from the Honda genny to one of the shore power plug panels on the port or starboard side of the boat.  Basically, in the diagram, the Honda genny replaces AC Shore Power.  The cable will plug into the 50 amp 120 volt single phase plug and feed the AC power panel in the lower salon. The 50 amp 120 volt single phase plug is a plug we rarely use.  

This auxiliary genny is the only recent change in my plans.  Frankly, I don’t know why Jim got so hot under the collar about this.  Apparently he felt that he had a patent on the idea of using a small commercially built generator.  I’ve been looking for one for months but couldn’t find a diesel unit that would do the job at a price I could afford.  So I switched to a gas generator.

Next year, I plan to add an inverter/charger but it will be much smaller than the one I would have selected if I was using the battery/inverter/charger approach that Jim and others have selected.  And the upgrade of my house battery bank to deep discharge batteries will be deferred until the present batteries fail.  Since the auxiliary genny will allow me to keep them fully charged (rather than at 50% to 75%) they may last several years.

The Honda auxiliary genny has its problems.  Its gasoline powered and does not meet Coast Guard standards for permanently installed gennys. As such it cannot legally be permanently installed on a boat.  But as long as it isn’t permanently installed, it’s legal.

This means that it must be simply fastened (but not permanently mounted or installed) to the boat.  Therefore, it must be carted down to the boat and fastened down before each use.  And after each use it must be removed from the boat and taken home.

Fortunately, for me, these restrictions are not too severe.  I don’t plan on using the genny every time we go out.  It’s mostly for times we plan to anchor out and don’t want to pay for expensive marina accommodations.  I expect this will be less than 15 times a year.  And when the genny isn’t on the boat we want it at home anyway to act as an emergency genny for power outages’ at home.  Further, an additional benefit will be that if our main Onan genny breaks down this genny will act as a backup while the Onan is being repaired.

So, I’m going to try this gas genny approach.  The inverter and battery bank upgrades may come next year or a little later but $900 gives me immediate off-shore power independence without running the Onan. Since very little on the boat has to be changed to incorporate this genny, I’m not burning any bridges.  If a better way comes along in the future, I can just sell the genny.  But in the meantime I’m saving about $120 every time I anchor out rather than going to a marina.  In about 8 days it will have more than paid for itself.  Everything after that is gravy.  Some of you guys may want to consider this approach.

Pete37



Edited by Pete37 on January 14 2012 at 21:44


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Pete37
"Commander"




Joined: November 12 2006
Posts: 2317
Posted: January 17 2012 at 13:48 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi All,

Subject: The Forum Name

Some owners have complained that the Forum name doesn’t include their 460s, 501s, Pacemaker Motoryachts and 46’ Uniflite Motoryachts.  Actually the first name I selected was:

“The Dave Martin Designed Murray Chris Craft Constellation 460, 500 & 501 Motoryachts, Plus the 46’ Uniflite and the 46’ Pacemaker Fiberglass Motoryachts Forum”

Somehow, that seemed too long and pompous for the title of a small boat owner’s discussion forum so I just used “The Murray Chris Craft Constellation 500 Forum”.  The Topic was later shortened to “Murray Chris Craft Constellations” by Boat US.

Someday, when I write the book (if I write the book), I’ll use the long name because it tends to make the book sound more important.  I haven’t even considered movie rights yet.  I’d have to find a script writer who could build in some sex and violence themes to make it saleable.  And we’d need a shorter title; perhaps “Sex Amongst the Connies” or “The Connie War Wagons”.

Pete37



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Pete37
"Commander"




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Posted: January 17 2012 at 17:45 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi All,

Subject:  Analysis of Forum Performance

I did some analyses of the Forum performance over the past five years.  The table below shows the number of posts per year:

Year

Posts

% Max

2007

655

54.7

2008

934

78.0

2009

1149

96.0

2010

1197

100.0

2011

1158

96.7

 

5093

 

 

The table shows that we’ve had 5093 posts and have been running about 1150 to 1200 posts per year.  Since the beginning of the Forum I’ve been contributing about 50% of the posts.  This year I noticed things were dragging a bit so I increased my posts to 658 which is 57% of the total posts.

We dropped only 3.3% in posts which is much less than I had expected.  This lousy economy is killing the enthusiasm of boat owners.  But I guess whether you’re enthusiastic or not most of you still have Connies and they have to be repaired.  And that’s what this Forum is about.

I’ve been re-reading last year’s posts to see what we accomplished.  I’m pleased to see that a lot of problems were presented in last year’s posts and in most cases someone on the forum had a solution.

Many of the owners are getting paranoid about saving money.  I don’t blame them.  In this economy I’m plenty nervous too.  But when you fix something, you should do it right.  You want to fix it at lowest cost but you don’t want to risk damaging anything in the process.

My Dad had an old New England expression for the danger of zealous but poorly thought out repair jobs:

“He tried to skin a fart to save a nickel and ruined a 25 cent pen knife in doing it.”

If your boat has “farts” (don’t they all?) be careful.  Don’t ruin a pen knife fixing them.

Pete37



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scottflys2
"Seaman"




Joined: June 10 2010
Posts: 59
Posted: January 18 2012 at 11:03 | IP Logged Quote scottflys2

Happy 2012
The previous owner painted the teak rails and I would like to get them
back to original. Any suggestions. Also some parts in the aft bhave
water damage and need replacement. Thanks for any help

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Pete37
"Commander"




Joined: November 12 2006
Posts: 2317
Posted: January 18 2012 at 11:38 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Scottflys,

Subject: Removing Paint

The only thing I can suggest is lots of chemical paint remover.  Pick something that doesn't harm fiberglass. Avoid anything that contains methylene chloride. It will damage the gelcoat.

Interlux Interstrip 299E is a possibility but I have no personal experience with it.  Try it on a small out of the way spot first.

Ace Hardware has an article on removing paint at:

http://www.acehardware.com/info/index.jsp?categoryId=1284545

and you might try Ehow at

http://www.ehow.com/how_5246979_remove-paint-gelcoat.html

Pete37

 



Edited by Pete37 on January 18 2012 at 12:13


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Posted: January 18 2012 at 12:44 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi All,

Subject: New Generators

I've found a water cooled diesel generator set for only $4500. That's a new low. It has a Perkins engine, is electric start and produces 6,125 watts.  It's a bit heavy (375 lbs.) but is small enough to fit in the generator room.

I also found a 3,000 watt generator that runs on soy bean oil.  All I would need is a couple hundred lb. bags of soy beans and a soy bean press and I'd be set for the summer.

The source of these jewels is

www.centralmainediesel.com

Pete37



Edited by Pete37 on January 18 2012 at 12:46


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eshover
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Posted: January 18 2012 at 14:50 | IP Logged Quote eshover

Scottsfly2 - most of us have had to do what you are about
to do (I hope you are not in cold weather).   If you do not
live close to your boat, you can remove the forward rails,
side doors, aft opening rail and door, take them home and
refinish them in your garage/shop/basement or whatever.
Keep in mind, if you work with solvents and paint
removers, you will need adequate ventilation. There are
many "green" products on the market now. Green
generally means.....it doesn't work (or at least not very
well). Most paint removers will state whether or not it will
harm fiberglass, but keep in mind, this generally means it
will harm the FRP is it stays on it for a while. I use a
produce called EZ Striper gel. I tape everything well and
keep shop towels on hand. If a small amount should drop
on the FRP, I remove it immediately with no issues. But it
is YOUR call. Once the paint is sufficiently removed,
sanding is in order. As stated in a previously post by me, I
purchased the small hand-held, battery operated multi-tool
sold by Sears (Craftsman Nextec series
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00930566000
P?prdNo=2&blockNo=2&blockType=G2.
This little tool saved me tons of time and is useful for many
projects around the boat. I bought an extra battery so as
to continuously work, but the recharge rate is very, very
quick.   I start with a heavy sanding disc to remove all
residual paint/varnish and then down to the next grade and
then to a final grade. Some hand sanding after that may
be required prior to final finish depending upon how smooth
you can get the wood. Always try to sand with the grain
whenever, where ever possible. Clean the wood well with
a prep product. You can pay marine store prices or simply
go to Home Depot or Lowes or where ever and find a
product suitable for this job. The type of coating you wish
to apply is, of course, up to you. I personally do not use
hard varnishes. Primarily because I'm lazy. I am now
using Cetol (clear) and am very pleased with the results.
Again, you decision on all of this. I hope I've helped a
little.
Mine is due this Spring. How I'll get to everything is
another issue. But I think I already know the answer.

I won't. As usual.
Emory

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scottflys2
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Posted: January 18 2012 at 21:52 | IP Logged Quote scottflys2

Thanks for all the info maybe I can pull a Mark Twain and enlist some
help painting the fence.   Looks like this will be a very big job

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Pete37
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Posted: January 19 2012 at 12:13 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Scott,

Subject: Painting

I was wondering why anyone would be thinking about paint removal in the middle of winter.  But then I figured it out.  You live near San Antonio, Texas where it's 78F today.  There isn't any water nearby other than Canyon Lake.  Do you keep it there or drive all the way to the Gulf?  Corpus Christi is about 150 miles and 2.5 hours away by car. That's a long hike.  Perhaps the "flys2" in your moniker is a hint that you are a pilot too and fly your plane down to the boat.  Is the lake connected to anything else by water?

It's 35F here in MD.  Years back my wife Arlene and I moved our Connie to Myrtle Beach for the winter thinking it would be warmer there.  It was but not by much.  It stiil snowed and dropped below freezing.  You really have to  go below Florida's border to get warm weather in the winter.  Myrtle Beach is an easy day's drive from MD but FL is too far away to do in one day.

Fuel and marina costs make moving the boat to FL for the winter economically impractical.  So we just spend six weeks in winter visiting our timeshares in Florida and St. Martin.  That sort of takes the sting out of winter.

Pete37

PS:  No, I'm not interested in helping you paint your Connie; even if you give me free room and board.  However, I've just heard that Governor Perry now has some free time available.



Edited by Pete37 on January 19 2012 at 13:11


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scottflys2
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Posted: January 19 2012 at 23:32 | IP Logged Quote scottflys2

Hi Pete
You guessed right I keep gemba in Rockport at Key Allegro marina and
use my small plane to get there. These days it's almost too expensive
to fly due to gas price. I have been using the boat mostly as a condo
but hope to do some cruising in the future. I have another boat I am
trying to sell so funds are a little low right now. Canyon Lake is only
fifteen min away and very clear water but no outlet to the sea we just
take the jet ski up there. I didn't think Perry would stick as long as he
did wouldn't vote for him anyway unless he offered to help. You are
right about the weather here but can change fast in Texas.

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Pete37
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Posted: January 20 2012 at 00:34 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Scott,

Hope you keep the boat under one of those covered sheds.  It must be blistering hot in the summer. 

But on second thought those sheds are only 90' wide which is too small for two 50' boats.  I think I have your boat spotted.  It's next to that 70 footer two docks over from the covered docks.  Or it could be the next boat.  The Connie bowsprit gives them a recognizable shape.

Pete37



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scottflys2
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Posted: January 20 2012 at 10:16 | IP Logged Quote scottflys2

Hi Pete
Wish could be under cover but the one place I could move to has no
view. I am just by the transit dock so get to meet more cruisers. The
boat just in front of me is the Royal Flush belongs to marina owner.



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Pete37
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Posted: January 20 2012 at 12:37 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Scott,

Nobody was at the transient docks the day the satellite took the photo so I guess you were out for a ride.

Pete37



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Posted: January 22 2012 at 18:12 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi All,

Subject: Painting Your Engines; Rust Converters

If you’re getting ready to paint your engines and they have significant areas of rust on them using ordinary engine enamel is a waste of time.  The paint will cover the rust and look OK for a while but in a few months the rust will spread out under the paint and eventually destroy your paint job.  What you need is a “rust converter”.  I copied the next three paragraphs describing “rust converters” from

www.theruststore.com

They have a product aptly named “Rust Converter”:

What is Rust Converter? Rust Converter, a water-based primer, contains two active ingredients: Tannic acid and an organic polymer. The first ingredient, tannic acid, reacts with iron oxide (rust) and chemically converts it to iron tannate, a dark-colored stable material. Tannins are a group of water- and alcohol-soluble natural products extracted from fruits, trees and grasses. The second active ingredient, 2-Butoxyethanol, is an organic polymer that provides a protective primer layer. The overall chemical reaction converts rust into a stable, black protective polymeric coating that serves as an excellent primer for both oil and epoxy based paints.

How is Rust Converter different than a rust remover? Rather than removing rust, a rust converter mixes chemically with rust to create a black inert substance that can be painted over, concealing the existence of any rust and preventing further corrosion.

What objects can I use Rust Converter on? Rust Converter can be used on any rusty iron or steel object. It can be used on vehicles, trailers, fences & gates, iron railings and staircases, sheet metal, cast iron, outsides of tanks, lawn equipment, mower decks, farm equipment, tractors to name just a few. It will not work on aluminum, copper, stainless steel or galvanized metal. As a general rule, Rust Converter is a good solution to fixing rust on items you would consider painting.”

Last spring, I painted my front engine supports with a rust converter.  They were cast iron and badly rusted.  They had been painted several times before but the paint only lasted a couple months before new rust broke through and ruined the paint job.

“The Rust Store” is not the only company selling “rust converters”.  If you do a search on the web you’ll get dozens of hits.  I selected a product called “Por-15” because they had a whole system of products including a very effective water based cleaner/degreaser, a product called “Metal Ready” which neutralizes and etches the metal surface plus, of course, the “Por-15” rust converter paint.

Strangely their paint comes only in black, silver, gray and clear.  This is because those are the only colors that can be chemically formulated to be completely non-porous.  So if you want a fire engine red engine, you’ll have to add a “Topcoat” which , not surprisingly, “Por 15” will be glad to sell you.  But you can use anyone’s paint so long as it is suitable for use on an engine.

The painting is a four step process.  First you clean and degrease the engine using their “Marine Clean” water-based cleaner.  It seems to be very effective.  Next you etch the surface with their “Metal Ready” product.  Then you apply the rust converter paint (Por-15).  When that is dry you can apply a topcoat of any color you like.  The first two steps are done with a spritz bottle.  The third is done with a brush.  The topcoat can be put on with a brush, aerosol can or spray gun.  Other brands of rust converter paints have their own versions of “Marine Clean” and “Metal Ready” sold under different names.  But they serve the same functions.  The spritzing steps go on very quickly.  The painting goes on at normal painting speeds.

You can get details on the “Por-15” products at:

www.por15.com

You can get details on most of the other rust converters by doing a search on the web for “rust converters” and going to one of the hits you get.  I make no claim that “Por-15” is any better (or worse) than the other rust converters.  I can only say that I tried “Por-15” and it worked as advertised.  The paint has been on for over nine months now without a spot of rust showing.  Ordinary paints were showing spots of rust breaking through after only a month.

Pete37



Edited by Pete37 on January 22 2012 at 18:15


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Pete37
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Posted: January 23 2012 at 11:21 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi All,

Subject: Smartcar ForTwo

I'm sure that some of you have been thinking along these lines.

It weighs 1600 lbs. and is 100" long by 60" wide. It is shown in the same scale as the Connie.

Pete37



Edited by Pete37 on January 23 2012 at 11:29


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Fly Bridge
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Posted: January 23 2012 at 11:55 | IP Logged Quote Fly Bridge

FROM Fly Bridge.   Pete:  Yep!   Got one TOO!!

Edited by Fly Bridge on January 23 2012 at 11:58


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Fly Bridge
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Posted: January 23 2012 at 12:19 | IP Logged Quote Fly Bridge

I know Pete,  "Nice try".  

Fly Bridge.   Dan



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Pete37
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Posted: January 23 2012 at 13:22 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Fly Bridge Dan,

You've got the idea but I think the picture of the car is a little out of scale.

Pete37



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eshover
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Posted: January 23 2012 at 13:30 | IP Logged Quote eshover

I think the entire real-world car is "out of scale". I wouldn't be
caught dead running one of these on the interstate!   

On second, caught dead is probably how I would be found!
With a Kenworth emblem in the back of my head! :P

Emory

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scottflys2
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Posted: January 23 2012 at 13:41 | IP Logged Quote scottflys2

Hey I have a smartie and have driven it on interstate for two years
guess lucky to be alive. Actually safer than motorcycle has built in roll
cage and air bags.   Those big rigs can run over anything anyway even
your road locomotives and it's easy to park. Haven't tried to put it on
the boat yet ha could use it for a genny.
Scott


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eshover
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Posted: January 23 2012 at 13:51 | IP Logged Quote eshover

Hey Scott......now I know how you afford the fuel for Gemba!
Pretty smart for a Smart Car owner! Actually, my wife and I
discussed the merits of a Smart Car and both agreed that if
we lived "in town" or VERY close to "in town", I can see gettin'
around in one of these. I just don't think I would feel
comfortable on an interstate in one of these. This, mind you,
coming from a former touring motorcyclist who rode year
round.   Color me a hypocrite. :)

Emory

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David Ross
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Posted: January 23 2012 at 14:35 | IP Logged Quote David Ross

Pete,

I would suggest you replace the Smart Car with an amphibious auto with a generator mounted in it. You'll have that auxillary genie you've wanted, a dingy (with no davit required) and land transportation as needed... It would address a lot of the issues and projects you have considered for your boat. I would further suggest to order it in black should you have an ongoing or future soot problem. This project could put an engineer into taped glasses and pocket pencil holder heaven. Not to mention the technical info it would provide for this forum (especially helpful for those who have problems going to sleep).



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scottflys2
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Posted: January 23 2012 at 16:03 | IP Logged Quote scottflys2

I think an ultralite or small helo would b fun   

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Pete37
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Posted: January 23 2012 at 16:48 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Scott,

Wouldn't work.  I don't have a pilots license!

Pete37



Edited by Pete37 on January 23 2012 at 17:52


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scottflys2
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Posted: January 23 2012 at 17:00 | IP Logged Quote scottflys2

Hey Emory
I understand how you feel no ofence taken do you still ride? I now
only ride short distance bars are close together.

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Fly Bridge
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Posted: January 23 2012 at 17:25 | IP Logged Quote Fly Bridge

Will this work, Pete?   FLY BRIDGE....Dan

Edited by Fly Bridge on January 23 2012 at 17:28


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Pete37
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Posted: January 23 2012 at 17:46 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi All,

Subject: The Genny Boat

On the Chesapeake Bay oyster boats aren’t allowed to have engines on them.  I guess that’s to protect the sanctity of the oyster beds.  So they have small push boats which are hung in davits over the stern.  When they need propulsion and the wind isn’t right, they drop the push boat (which does have an engine) over the side and use it to push the oyster boat wherever they want to go.

I have a new invention.  It’s called the Genny Boat.  It’s a small dinghy hung in davits over the stern like the push boat.  But instead of having an engine it has a 5kW diesel genny aboard.  The genny has a transmission attached to its shaft and a propeller shaft is attached to the transmission shaft.  Since the Genny Boat is a small open boat the exhaust can be directly dumped into the air so that no water cooling is required.  And since its diesel no explosive gasoline vapors are involved.

You can use the Genny Boat as a runabout or as an auxiliary generator for the mother boat.  To use it as a runabout you crank up the diesel and leave the generator open circuited so the generator doesn’t burn up any power.  Just engage the transmission and off you go.  When you want to use it as a generator boat just tie it off to the swim platform, put the tranny in neutral,  plug the Genny Boat’s generator output into the mother boat, start the genny and voila you have AC electric power.  In a pinch you could even use it as a push or tow boat.

The hull would be built of plywood and probably wouldn’t be more than 10’ long. The best part is that diesel construction gennys start at less than $1,000.  I would have a trailer for the Genny Boat and when it wasn’t doing its nautical duties it would be at home providing emergency electric power for the house.  Just for the hell of it I might decorate it to look like a miniature tugboat and mount a mammoth air horn on it. Here’s what it would look like:

 

Maybe I could make a few bucks doing towing jobs around the marina or providing electric power to picnics.

Pete37



Edited by Pete37 on January 23 2012 at 21:47


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Posted: January 23 2012 at 18:16 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Dave and Scott,

Don't know whether I could add wheels to the Genny Boat to make it amphibious or not.  I think I would get caught up in highway regulatons and it would get very complicated.  Similarly, adding wings or chopper blades to make it fly would require an air worthyness cerificate.  Very, very complicated.  I think I'll just stick to the Genny Boat concept; that's doable.

Pete37



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Posted: January 23 2012 at 21:40 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi All,

Subject: Back to Reality

Now that we've fooled around with fantasy, let's get back to reality.  Here's what the Honda EU2000i genny would look like on the swim platform of a Connie.

Total cost $899 for 1600 watts of continuous power with no installation hassles.

Pete37



Edited by Pete37 on January 23 2012 at 21:41


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scottflys2
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Posted: January 23 2012 at 22:45 | IP Logged Quote scottflys2

Anyone know how many 501's were built with galley up? And are any
for sale

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Pete37
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Posted: January 24 2012 at 16:27 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Scott,

Subject: Galley-Up

Galley-Up was probably a customer requested option.  But I don't know where you would find records like that 25 years after the fact.  I'll take a look at the brokers ads I have collected and see how many I can find that have galley-up.

Pete37

PS:  I did a search of all Connie 501s up to 1989. (Hulls 111 to 135).  I found 13 with the galley-down and none with the galley up.  There were 12 for which there was no data. I don't think galley-up was offered before 1990.  Unfortunately there's no data for any of the boats built in 1990 except for your boat and hull J138.  Your boat had galley-up and J138 had galley-down.

The 1990 Connies seem to be the missing fleet which, except for J136 and J138, have disappeared down the Alice in Wonderland "Rabbit Hole" .  I've heard rumors that Iran is massing a fleet of these missing Connies at the Straits of Hormuz and plans to attack the US Fleet with them.



Edited by Pete37 on January 26 2012 at 09:28


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Grey Goose
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Posted: January 24 2012 at 19:32 | IP Logged Quote Grey Goose

Scott
When I did my research before buying my boat, I was told 1989 and
1990 model year 501's were galley up. 1987 and 1988 were galley
down. Your boat was probably built in 1988 as a 1989 model boat.
Other changes were 87-88 were teak interior and 89-90 were oak.
Striping also was changed. There were more than 20 galley down and
around 10 galley up boats built. I have no verification of the above
information.

Allen
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