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Furman1
"Deckhand"




Joined: November 27 2006
Posts: 227
Posted: July 13 2007 at 17:17 | IP Logged Quote Furman1

I extended my swim platform to 54 inches deep.  I added SS truck 45 degree exhaust elbows. This keep the soot (if I have it) away from the transum. I tilted the exhaust down about 20 degrees.

 



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Pete37
"Commander"




Joined: November 12 2006
Posts: 2317
Posted: July 14 2007 at 01:30 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Furman & All,

Yes, as I said in a previous post, extending the exhaust pipes by 4 to 6 feet should decrease the soot on the transom.  But also, as I said, it is a rather ungainly (and expensive) solution unless you have other reasons for wanting to extend your swim platform. 

So here we have, courtesy of Furman, a possible solution for the soot problem.  The next question, which Furman can probably answer, is what does it cost?  And does it create any other problems. 

In my case, I have to fit my Connie into a 62' slip (no exceptions) and my boat is 56' 6" long (including the bowsprit and a 28" swim platform).  Adding (54"-28") = 26" will make my boat 56'6" + 2'2" = 58'8" long.  And then I have to add 2' for clearance between the dock and the swim platform making the total length required 58'8" + 2' = 60' 8" so I could fit a my boat into a 62' slip with about 16" to spare. 

But what would I use it the extended swim platform for?  One obvious answer would be as a place to store a dinghy.  A typical inflatable dinghy is about 60" wide and the stern ladder crops out about a foot of the useable space so I would need a 60" + 12" = 72" = 6' deep swim platform.  So my Connie would have a total length of 56'6" + (72"-28") = 56'6" +44" = 56'6" + 3'6"= 60'0".  And when I add 2' clearance from the dock I would need exactly 62' for the boat.  Still legal but just barely legal.  But the distance from my dock to the next dock is 70' leaving only 10' for maneuvering and my slip is adjacent to the bulkhead.  Again possible on a calm day but rather dicey with a wind.

Another consideration is whether the extended swim platform and exhaust pipes would protect my dinghy from soot.  The answer is probably not.  I had a dinghy mounted 6' above the swim platform and I was constantly cleaning the soot off both the dinghy and my transom.  If the dinghy was mounted directly on the swim platform it would be pitch black from soot in a very short time and dinghys are much harder to clean than transoms.  So the idea of using the extended swim platform as a dinghy rack doesn't seem practical.

Some boats use exhaust diverters on the end of their exhaust pipes.  These are angled pipe extensions which divert the exhaust down into the water.  They were popular in the 60s but were used mainly for noise reduction.  However, they should also reduce the soot but I don't know how much and I don't know whether they produce unacceptable back pressure. 

Pete37



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Furman1
"Deckhand"




Joined: November 27 2006
Posts: 227
Posted: July 14 2007 at 07:53 | IP Logged Quote Furman1

Pete I checked with J&T before I did the diverters and they said it wouldn't effect anything regarding the engines.

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Furman1
"Deckhand"




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Posts: 227
Posted: July 14 2007 at 07:57 | IP Logged Quote Furman1

As far as price the diverters (if my memory is correct) were about $80 each. The key is to buy the ones for trucks.  I never could find them ready made for boats. It was too expensive to have someone custom make them.

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Pete37
"Commander"




Joined: November 12 2006
Posts: 2317
Posted: July 14 2007 at 10:49 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Furman,

Without the 54" swim platform extension, your long exhaust pipes would be rather impractical.  A four to six foot pipe sticking out behind the boat would get knocked off very quickly.  So the real cost is the cost of the swim platform extension.  What did the extension of the swim platform cost?

With the existing 28" swim platform you could extend the exhaust pipes 28" and that might help some.  It would be a relatively cheap fix but I don't know how effective it would be.  I think I'll let someone else try that one out before I do it.  It's something that would be done at next years haulout anyway.

Pete37



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Furman1
"Deckhand"




Joined: November 27 2006
Posts: 227
Posted: July 14 2007 at 14:33 | IP Logged Quote Furman1

The elbows I have are about 8 inches long overall and diverts the exhausts to the outboard. I did the swim platform for diving and a dingy location. the dingy will be slightly raised (about 18 inches) and over hang the swim platform. The cradle is removable.

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David Ross
"Navigator"




Joined: January 02 2007
Posts: 452
Posted: July 16 2007 at 22:10 | IP Logged Quote David Ross

Hi Furman,

How did you install your truck exhaust diverters? Did you have make  a flange? Did you have to remove the chrome ring that is already there?

For everyones info my engines are TI's also. Pete, if you see this you will know I'm back. As I mentioned before I will have my boat at Mears July 26th and 27th. I will be there with some other club members. I  have some time July 26th until 6pm and on the 27th also some free time. Our club is having dinner at Annies that night at 6pm. As mentioned earlier also, I'll be in Annapolis, Oxford and St Michaels. Check my other post for the days. Hope some of us can get together. I will have computer access until this Thursday noon. After that not sure, depends on the area I'm in.

Dave



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500 CONSTELLATION (1987)
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Pete37
"Commander"




Joined: November 12 2006
Posts: 2317
Posted: July 17 2007 at 00:07 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi All,

Subj: Standard Props

A page or so we got into a discussion on what size props were standard on Connies.  Dave said he had 29 x 33s, I said mine were 30 x 31s, Ken said he had seen boats with 29 x 31s and 31 x 31s.  In short it didn't seem like there was any standard size.

Well, I think mine are 30 x 31s because that's what the surveyor said.  I checked the survey.  But it occurred to me that I had never checked the dimensions of my spare props.  The ones I carry along in case I damage the props.  They are stored in the generator compartment in front of the generator.  So the last time I was down at the boat I went into the generator compartment and checked them.  They are 29 x 33s the same as Daves.

They are marked Nibral and carry the inscription NCFS 2933.  The 2933 I assume means 29" diameter by 33" pitch.  I don't know what NCFS means but assume it must be the manufacturer's identification code.

So I'm in a quandry now.  Did the surveyor screw up or what?  Are the props on the shafts 30 x 31s or 29 x 33s?  I won't be able to find out until the boat is hauled again next spring.

If the props presently mounted on the shafts are really 29 x 33s then why do I get 2 to 3 more knots than Dave?  He has the same boat and the same engines.  He has digital tachs while I calibrate my analog tachs with a digital optical tachometer so there doesn't seem to any error there.  I read my rpms directly off the shaft with the optical tach.  Dave reads his off his digital tachometers which presumably have been properly installed. 

Perhaps Dave's tachs should be checked with an digital optical tach to eliminate the possibility of an installation error but that doesn't seem likely.  Speeds are measured with GPS systems accurate to about 0.1 knot and presumably are checked by two way runs to cancel out wind and current.  So there doesn't seem to be any way to explain the 2 to 3 knot difference unless Dave is carrying a heavy load of bricks.  Therefore, I tend to believe that my woking props are 30 x 31s.

Pete37



Edited by Pete37 on July 17 2007 at 00:53


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Fantasy
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Joined: November 30 2006
Posts: 324
Posted: July 17 2007 at 07:10 | IP Logged Quote Fantasy

Pete,

I don't think your "ideal" top speed readings are much different from Dave's actual. Here's a recap of what Dave said:

"A few weeks ago according to my Benmar digital tach the port engine hit 2254 and the starboard 2286. Gps reading was 19.5 knots (22.4 mph). I was in 16' to 18' of water, against the current with full fuel and water."

Note that he's down a few rpm's (normal engine wear?), he was against the current and his boat was fully loaded.  We can only assume that the bottom condition was clean and that his props were true.  He's also dragging stabilizer fins.  As you know, all of these things reduce top speed.

Just an observation,

John



Edited by Fantasy on July 17 2007 at 07:43


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"Fantasy"
460 Chris Craft Constellation
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Furman1
"Deckhand"




Joined: November 27 2006
Posts: 227
Posted: July 17 2007 at 07:45 | IP Logged Quote Furman1

David,

The diverters I ordered were 8 inches in diameter. I didn't alter anything on the existing exhaust.  My existing exhaust extented out about an inch.  I heated the diverters and slid them over the existing exhaust. I then drilled 4 holes around the diverter and through the existing exhaust put in bolts with locking nuts and that was it. My diverters exhaust to the outboard and down about 20 degrees from horizonal. Hope this helps.



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David Ross
"Navigator"




Joined: January 02 2007
Posts: 452
Posted: July 17 2007 at 13:38 | IP Logged Quote David Ross

Furman, John, Pete an all,

Thanks for your response Furman. Did you have the factory installed slotted swim platform when you had the transom soot? Did the boat run any quieter? I may consider adding exhaust deflectors as you did instead of covering the swim platform slots with an underneath piece of acrylic. As mentioned I plan to tape over the slots as a test on our cruise starting this week end. When I did this on the way back from Baltimore there was no soot. This wil be a much better trial.

John, my boat was just recently bottom painted and the props checked by the yard (I assume visually and not by much else) when I did my run.

Pete, my original boat purchase survey had noted the props installed as 29x32 and they are the ones still on. My spares are stamped 29x33. I asked my yard to verify the size of the ones installed during my spring haul out. Unfortunately I couldn't be there. Later when I asked if they were 29x33 I was told yes. Nothing was written on my receipt and I asked a couple weeks later. I will check again to who checked and if they notated it somewhere. I sure will check myself next time the boat is out (I hope not too soon!)

Still waiting on definite responses about getting together somewere next week. See my cruising itinerary on another post. Pete menetioned Kent Narrows and I believe some have boats in the Annapolis area also. For any last minute decisions you have the itenerary, the boat "Good Spirits" is a 500.

Dave



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Furman1
"Deckhand"




Joined: November 27 2006
Posts: 227
Posted: July 17 2007 at 15:09 | IP Logged Quote Furman1

I never had much soot. the reason I added the diverters was that I had extended my swim platform to 54 inches and I thought it was better to divert the exhaust. Yes I had the slotted swim platform. I don't know how to add a picture or I would show you the platform.

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Pete37
"Commander"




Joined: November 12 2006
Posts: 2317
Posted: July 17 2007 at 22:49 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi All,

Apparently we have more inputs on what the standard props were.  29 x 32s are now a candidate.  And also apparently some of us (including me) can't be sure what working props we actually have and won't be able to find out until haulout next spring.

So let's take another approach.  A properly equipped Connie with engines in reasonable tune will make at least 18.4 knots at 2000 rpm and  21-22 knots at 2200 rpm.  This is what my boat is capable of.  If you aren't getting that performance, your boat isn't set up right.  However, there may be some of you who are doing better.  We'd like to hear from you.

Assumptions are that the boat is operating in water about 12 feet deep, that the winds and currents are moderate, that winds and currents have been subtracted out by two way runs, that each of the engines produce 530 hp. or more, that the transmission ratio is 2.0:1 and that the boat is normally loaded with tanks about half full.

Furman:

I've asked Boat US what they can do to restore the picture upload facility but so far I haven't received any response.  I'll discuss this with you by email in the near future.

Dave:

You have mentioned that you are busy with club affairs on the 27th.  What club is that? 

The soot problem seems to be intermittant.  Sometimes you have it and sometimes you don't. If the transom is well waxed the soot doesn't seem to stick and if the engines are running right the soot seems to be less.  But overloaded engines seem to produce a lot of soot.  

All: 

If you have a Connie in the Maryland area and are interested in some sort of boat rendezvous or perhaps just a dinner to talk with other Connie owners please contact me (pminott@aol.com).  The 27th is beginning to look like an awfully short fuse so we should consider other dates as well.

Pete37



Edited by Pete37 on July 17 2007 at 22:58


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David Ross
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Posted: July 18 2007 at 10:43 | IP Logged Quote David Ross

Pete and all,

I am thinking my purchase survey indicating 29x32 may have been a typo error. As you said we all are curious and I am sure will check our props  at the next haul out.

I will be cruising with some boats from our club, the Georgetown Yacht Club. We  are leaving this Saturday and will at the marinas I mentioned in a previous post. The club is returning to home port on August 28th but we are going on for a few days or so.

While in Kent Narrows the club has a scheduled event on the 26th at 6pm and we are having dinner at Annies on the 27th also at 6pm.  The rest of the time at this point is open. I will have my wife, our son and daughter-inlaw and and our two grandchildren aboard so I'm sure there will be plans made. Should be flexible enough to work something out if you and/or others can make it at this port of call or one of the others on our itinerary. If nothing can be worked out, as you mentioned time is short, perhaps we sparked a little interest for a future get together.

Dave, Good Spirits



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Pete37
"Commander"




Joined: November 12 2006
Posts: 2317
Posted: July 22 2007 at 00:25 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

To All:

More on Transom Soot:

I've found at least two more possible solutions for the transom soot problem. The first is Collinite #845 Insulator Wax.  This is a wax which is supposed to retard the accumulation of soot on the transom.  The yard used it on my transom during my recent haulout for bottom painting and hull polishing.  They claim is helps to keep the transom clean.  I've also seen similar claims on the web.  But it's too soon to know whether it really works.  Collinite also makes a fiberglass cleaner which is given high ratings by cruisers.

The second product is "Roll Off".   This a cleaner which cleans the soot off with no work.  Just spray it on, brush it on or mop it on and hose off the soot.  Lot's of testimonials and most of them are not sponsored by the manufacturer.  Roll Off also works as an engine degreaser and bird dropping cleaner.  Fantastic also seems to work pretty well as a spray on soot cleaner.

Walker claims their Fuelsep system also eliminates transom soot.  But Walker's system is expensive and Walker makes a lot of extravagant claims about all their products without much proof.

Boat Soap is better than household detergents because it removes dirt and stains without removing the wax.

Pete37



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LEN02
"Seaman Recruit"




Joined: July 25 2007
Posts: 2
Posted: July 26 2007 at 21:17 | IP Logged Quote LEN02

THIS IS A GREAT SITE I HAVE BEEN DREAMING ABOUT THE DAY I GET A CONNIE FOR A LONG TIME IM STILL A YEAR OR SO AWAY  BUT AM DOING ALOT OF RESEARCH AND THIS IS A GREAT PLACE FOR THAT I HOPE SOMEDAY SOON TO JOIN YOU ALL  GOOD LUCK WITH ALL YOUR PROJECTS I WILL BE READING AND FOLLOWING YOUR CONVERSATIONS

                                               THANKS LEN

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markleopold
"Seaman Recruit"




Joined: July 08 2007
Posts: 1
Posted: July 29 2007 at 12:34 | IP Logged Quote markleopold

Pete,

Please call me for i received your letter. I own a 1986 500 and have for 10 years.

home 936-448-6560

cell    214-514-2020

dallas tx



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Mark Leopold
Dallas TX
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LEN02
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Joined: July 25 2007
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Posted: July 30 2007 at 16:07 | IP Logged Quote LEN02

SORRY MISUNDERSTOOD THE POST                                                            THANKS LEN

 

      



Edited by LEN02 on August 01 2007 at 16:41
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David Ross
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Joined: January 02 2007
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Posted: August 05 2007 at 22:17 | IP Logged Quote David Ross

Furman and all,

 Sorry I do not have any info on that type of water system. However I did replace my old heater with a 20 gallon Sears unit and relocated it from the starboard ledge in the genearator room to the center of the floor behind the ladder. I had nothing there. I think the original oil holding tank for oil changes may have been there and was removed by a previous owner. A 30 gallon tank will fit. If you have a 110 volt wall mounted glass covered light on the forward wall you may have to move it for the 30 gallon so as not to block the light and to be able to move the tank further back. I find the 20 gallon tank works great even with the tub being used alot. I now have better use of space and the water tank weight is in the center of the boat, but probably doesn't matter with the generator on the port side.

Also my last posts, yours, the fellow inquiring about  the $139,000 Chris Craft 500 and John's response are not listed on this forum. I have any new messages from this forum pop up on my e-mail and lately when I delete them from my e-mail they do not appear in the forum. I have always deleted them before without a problem. Is my post to Furman about the rudders, Furman's water heater post and this response, the $139,000 CC post and John's response on all your forum posts. They are not on mine. Anyone else having this problem?

Dave



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Pete37
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Posted: August 06 2007 at 00:22 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Dave,

Some of the comments in your last post are rather confusing.  I don't remember (and couldn't find on the forum) an inquiry by Furman about water heaters.  However, I finally did find his comment on another forum.   I'll answer his question in my next post.  

I faced the problem of replacing the original 20 gallon Galley Maid water heater about 10 years ago.  I wanted to keep the 20 gallon capacity but couldn't find a water heater that was short enough to fit in the original space.  The headroom was too short.  Eventually, I found one that was laid on its side so that the height was less.  I don't see it in the current West Marine catalog but could look it up if anyone is interested.  It fitted very nicely into the original location of the Galley Maid heater and is still running very well now.

The original oil exchange reservoir was located on the starboard side of the engine in front of the starboard engine.  I removed mine fairly recently because it interferred with maintaining the engine and didn't really perform any useful function.  The basic problem with the reservoir was that there wasn't any way to meter the amount of oil pumped into the engines.  Another problem was that CC used rubber water hose with wire reinforcement to connect the reservoir to the port & starboard outlets and between the valve manifold and the reservoir.  After 20 years the oil reduced these water hoses to goo and I had to remove them.  It was a great idea that didn't work.  Fortunately, the hoses between the valve manifold, engines and generator are proper hydaulic hoses and seem to be holding up very well.  I use them for changing oil every year.

Pete37



Edited by Pete37 on August 06 2007 at 01:09


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diveryates
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Posted: August 06 2007 at 00:45 | IP Logged Quote diveryates

 

 

One way to install water heaters so they take up less room is to plumb in 5 or 10 gallon tanks in series. Worked great on a 60' footer where room was limited due to added A.C.



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Pete37
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Posted: August 06 2007 at 00:58 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Furman,

The main problem with on-demand heaters is that they create very large power surges.  If you decide to take a nice hot shower to wash off the day's sweat while your wife is making dinner and the air conditioners are working their asses off trying to keep the boat cool you are likely to find yourself standing naked in a waterless shower while your wife screams at you from the galley.  Water heating is a very power intensive load.  A 20 gallon heater with a 15 amp heater element can probably heat the 5 gallons of water for your 5 minute shower in about a half hour.  But if you insist on having the water heated in 5 minutes it takes six times the power or 90 amps.  That, added to air conditioning, etc. can easily blow your fuses.

I was working on the boat today and turned on the faucet in the guest head and no water came out.  I knew that I had recently filled the tanks and began to wonder whether my water tank was leaking.  But I checked the water pump breaker and found that it was off.  So I flipped it on and it stayed on a few seconds and then tripped off again.  So the problem seems to be the pump not the tank. 

The pump is the original Teel Cast Iron Shallow Well Pump supplied with the Connies and is now nearly 21 years old.  On the basis of what I have heard on the forum, I think it is shot.  So I've been looking for a replacement. 

There are plenty of shallow well pumps around but most of them are 3/4 hp units while the Teel was a 1/3 hp unit.  I've had some trouble finding a low hp shallow well pump.  About the smallest I can find is 1/2 hp.  I'd rather not use more than twice the hp necessary because it loads the electrical system.

The Teel put out 510 gph (8.5 gpm).  One option might be to go to a DC pump but most DC pumps max out at about 5 gpm. with rather prodigious battery loads.  So it appears that a 115V volt pump is necessary.  It will only work while the generator is on but I have found and overhauled an old 4.3 gpm PAR pump to take care of occasional midnight toilet needs.  It will be installed in parallel to the 115V pump.  That was about what I was going to do when the Teel pump took a dive.  But now the 115V pump takes precedence.

I stuck my hand down into the bilge today near where the lower left corner of the water tank is and found about 3" of water.  Is that enough to submerge the bottom of the tank?.  If it is, I have a few ideas on how th eliminate the puddle.

Pete37



Edited by Pete37 on August 06 2007 at 01:23


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Furman1
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Posted: August 06 2007 at 07:23 | IP Logged Quote Furman1

Pete the water tank sits on the bildge bottom.  So your tank is in about 3 inches of water.

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Fantasy
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Posted: August 06 2007 at 09:55 | IP Logged Quote Fantasy

I replaced our 20gal. h/w heater last summer with a replacement purchased at Lowes.  The dimensions are slightly larger (I think they are putting in more insulation for efficiency) and the capacity is listed at "19gal."  In order to accommodate the larger unit, it was necessary to trim the floor support above.  It was a bear to wiggle it in the same space but it worked.

I am always amazed at the storage capacity of the heater, we can go for a couple days and still have at least, warm water when we're traveling and anchoring.  For our boating style, that would be a strong argument against an on demand heater.

Since the water pump topic last came up, I've added a 12volt ShurFlo pump rated at 2.8 gpm and 6 amps.  This seems to be adequate and uses a lot less power than the 115v pump (72watts vs 989 watts).  Power conservation is very important to us since we are on the inverter while traveling.  The inverter will shut down at 10.5 volts on the battery and this often happens when the 115v pump kicks in and the power demand momentarily spikes the voltage down.  This can be a real nuisance at 4 a.m.  The 12v pump should eliminate the problem, even if the inverter does shut down.

Furman re: rudder shafts, I repacked my engine shafts about 4 years ago with Goretex packing.  The material is inherently slimey and is perfect for this application.  The shafts are dry but still lubricated.

John



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"Fantasy"
460 Chris Craft Constellation
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Furman1
"Deckhand"




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Posted: August 06 2007 at 11:41 | IP Logged Quote Furman1

What model on the pump?

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Fantasy
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Posted: August 06 2007 at 13:21 | IP Logged Quote Fantasy

Furman,

Since this was an experiment, I bought mine used on ebay to minimize the investment ($35).  It works very well, especially with the accumulator tank in place.  When the pump craps out, I'll probably replace it with this a Shruflo Aqua King pump, which is almost identical and even more efficient.

John



Edited by Sonja Lowe on September 19 2013 at 13:41
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Pete37
"Commander"




Joined: November 12 2006
Posts: 2317
Posted: August 08 2007 at 15:54 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

To All:

Subj: Electric Water Heaters

As I mentioned in a previous post I replace my original Galley Maid 20 Gal. electric water about 10 years ago.  The main problem in doing so was to find a 20 gallon water heater with a maximum height of less than 21.25" which is the height from the floor to the ceiling at the original water heater location.

There are plenty of ordinary household 20 gallon water heaters available at a little over $200.  The Sears Kenmore Economizer at  $239 is an example.  In contrast a typical 20 gallon marine water heater such as the Raritan Series 1700 172001 at $539 costs nearly twice as much.  Both use glass lines steel tanks.  So what's the difference?  Basically, the glass lining of the marine water heater will stand up in a boat's vibration environment while the household version may not.

But both tanks are too tall to fit in the 21.25" height of the generator compartment at the location of the original water heater.  The only tank I have been able to find that fits a Connie is the Atwood 20 gallon Model EH20 at $530.  Its about the same price as the Raritan heater but easily fits in the space availble (the height is only 15.75").

I've had one for 10 years now and so far it has worked flawlessly.  Of course you can buy the Sears unit or one of its competitors for about $230 and save a bundle but there is no guarantee it will last even one season and you may have to make drastic modifications to your boat to make it fit.

Pete37



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Pete37
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Posted: August 11 2007 at 00:43 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

To All:

Subj: Water Tank Failures

The first case of a water tank failure that I heard of was from Furman1 sometime last fall.  But since then Iíve heard of at least four more on this forum.  And since the Connie owners who post on this forum represent only about 1/3rd of the total number of owners, there are probably at least 15 Connies on which the water tanks have corroded out.    And eventually all the tanks may fail.

I suspect that about half the Connie owners donít even know where the water tank is located or why they should be worried about it corroding out.  Connies are built with four longitudinal stringers which run nearly the entire length of the boat.  Their purpose is to give the boat strength in the fore and direction.  They are most obvious in the engine room where they support the engines but they run from nearly the bow to nearly the stern.

The water tank is located between the two stringers closest to the keel of the boat.  They are separated by about 24 inches and are about 15 inches high.  The water tank starts just aft of the engine room/office bulkhead and runs aft to the front of the master stateroom (a distance of about 11í).  This gives the tank a volume of 2 x 1 x 11 = 22 cubic feet or about 160 gallons.  The bottom rests directly upon the hull putting it in the bilge of the boat.  It is made of aluminum (a very active metal) and since it rests in the bilge it is continually immersed in salty bilge water.  This is an ideal situation to create corrosion and therefore it is not surprising that after 20 years the tanks are corroding out and developing severe leaks.

Why should we be worried about the corrosion?  We should be worried because all these tanks will eventually corrode out and we will be faced with the expensive task of replacing them.  Furman1, who has replaced his tank on a "do it yourself" basis, says it cost him about $1,800.  If you are going to have the yard do it for you, figure at least $3,600.

It would obviously be better to prevent these tanks from corroding out.  I have thought of at least tree ways to do this.  The first is to install an extra bilge pump near the tank to keep the bilge dry.  Unfortunately the area near the water tank is very difficult to access and there isnít much space to install a pump.  The use of a pump which can draw water up though a hose, such as the old PAR pumps, would allow just the tip of the hose to be placed in the bilge while the rest of the pump could be in a more accessible location.

The second solution would be to drill a limber hole through the engine room/office bulkhead to allow the water trapped against that bulkhead to drain forward into the engine room and be pumped out by the engine room bilge pumps.  This is, however, a little tricky and one must be careful not to drill into the water tank.  But with care it is doable.

The third solution is to wire a zinc anode to the water tank and immerse the zinc in the bilge water.  This should protect the tank against corrosion and is probably the simplest and cheapest solution to the corrosion problem.  The only drawback is that you have to check and replace the zinc occasionally.

These are the solutions I have thought of so far.  I would be interested in hearing of any other solutions you may have.

Pete37

 



Edited by Pete37 on August 11 2007 at 00:45


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TStellato
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Posts: 206
Posted: August 12 2007 at 18:20 | IP Logged Quote TStellato


We just purchased a 1985 Constellation.  My husband found original newspaper articles on board about the first 50ft Constellation.  Our hull number is CCSYE499H485.  Any idea what hull number we have?  we downsized from a 83' Custom to the Chris.  It was the only boat that we wanted to look at.  Only downside is the "lovely" dated beige color.  Already looking for quotes in the Chesapeake Bay area for repainting entire boat.  Great site.  Husband is still bringing the boat up from Florida but I will aim him towards this site when he returns.  By the way we found out that the boat was originally in the Bay and taken to Florida 2 years ago.  It's named Bohemia for now but that will change.


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Tony and Vicki
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Pete37
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Posted: August 14 2007 at 00:50 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Tony,

Welcome to the forum.  Your hull number is 499 and her hull was built in August of 1984.  She is a 1985 model.  "Bohemia" has has been on the market for a very long time.  I have ads for her running back to 2002.  Hull number 498 which was built just prior to "Bohemia" is "Spanish Ayes". 

For some unknown reason these two hulls (498 and 499) were built between hull 110 "Sweet Girl" and hull 111 "Waterwalker".  I suspect they were built for corporate members and for tax purposes they didn't want them to appear as part of the normal production run.  But that's just a guess.  "Bohemia" has a lot of deviations from the normal design of 1985 Connies.  That might also be the the reason for the deviation from the normal run of hull numbers.  

I suspect that I know the broker who sold the boat to you.  It would be interesting to see the newspaper ads you found aboard "Bohemia".  Where on the Chesapeake will you be keeping her?

Again welcome,

Pete37



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TStellato
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Posted: August 14 2007 at 09:12 | IP Logged Quote TStellato


Pete,

Thank you for the information.  We understand that the owner that we bought the boat from, bought her 2 years ago, so that might explain the old ads.  The broker was Capt. Eddie.  Bohemia surveyed out very strong with no major problems, except for one engine which we just totally rebuilt 2 weeks ago.  She is not the best looking yet, but was a good deal.  We hope to have her rehabbed inside and out during the next few months.  A few things that we are looking for a decent price to Awlgrip the whole exterior and someone to build bench seating on the bridge.  Do you know if the teak parquet floors were standard?  I am going to keep them, but I need to fill in underneath the area rugs, because they were removed to make the carpets lie flat.  Any idea where to get them?

We will be in the South River for a few months, until we can find a slip to put us back in Annapolis. 

Tony


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Furman1
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Posted: August 14 2007 at 12:01 | IP Logged Quote Furman1

<p>Tony</p> <p>The pattern of the teak floors is "Hadden Hall"&nbsp; It is&nbsp;avaliable from World Panel Products (<a href="http://www.worldpanel.com" target="_blank">http://www.worldpanel.com</a>) for the square edge product. I think this was the stock product for the Connies</p>

Edited by Sonja Lowe on September 19 2013 at 13:38
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Ken27
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Joined: December 12 2006
Posts: 138
Posted: August 14 2007 at 14:31 | IP Logged Quote Ken27

Hello everyone,

I've been VERY busy with work, grandkids, and the boat, so I haven't had much time to keep up with the forum.  However, I have tried to quickly skim the posts from time to time.  Welcome aboard Tony and anyone else that have recently joined our fine group.  Tony, I also have an '85 that I've been restoring and updating for the last year and a half.  If I can offer any help, let me know. 

On the water tank issue, because our boats are all in fresh water, we haven't seen any problems with leaks due to corrosion, except for a 46' Uniflite that this spring, had a leak when it was summerized.  I suspect the tank wasn't properly drained last fall.  It turns out the top of the tank is screwed down to the sides.  I wonder if it had had a problem years past and someone cut the top off, repaired the tank, and then screwed it back on.

Concerning the water heater and the fresh water pump, both have been replaced on the "Good Life".  The pump was bought at Grainger and is a direct replacement for the original.  I'm not sure on the water heater.  I don't know the model numbers off hand, but if anyone is interested, I'd be happy to post them.

I'm still trying to find a radar arch for the boat.  That has been a real challenge.  It looks like I might have one coming.  If I can get it installed with the radar by the end of Sept., then I should be able to get the boat back to Nashville this fall.  I really have to leave by Oct. 1 because of fuel availablility issues that late in the season.

As soon as I get more time, I'll post everything we've done in the last year and a half, and share whatever anyone is interested in.  That probably won't happen until fall sometime, either after I get the boat to Nashville or after haul-out if it stays here in MN for the winter.

Ken

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TStellato
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Posts: 206
Posted: August 14 2007 at 18:42 | IP Logged Quote TStellato


Furman1,

thank you for the floor info. I will be contacting them asap.  My husband is still making his way up the ditch and asked me to pose another question.  How do you transfer the fuel from the front tanks to the rear tanks?  He filled all 4 tanks when he left but has only been running on the rear tanks. Thank you.

Also there was a mention of a Connie get together in the Chesapeake.  Is that happening?


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Ken27
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Posted: August 14 2007 at 19:44 | IP Logged Quote Ken27

Hello TSellato,

Well, it looks like instead of skimming these posts I need to read more carefully.  When I welcomed you Tony, I missed welcoming your husband also.  My apologies.

Hoping your husband has a safe and uneventful journey,

Ken

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Fantasy
"Navigator"




Joined: November 30 2006
Posts: 324
Posted: August 14 2007 at 20:26 | IP Logged Quote Fantasy

Hi Tony,

Unless your boat had a fuel transfer pump installed, which was not standard, fuel is not moved from the forward tanks to the aft tanks.

Instead, you will find a fuel manifold with valves located under the top step going down to the aft staterooms.  To use the fuel in the main tanks the valves are pointed to the "aft" position.  To use the fuel in the forward tanks the valves are pointed to the positions labeled "starboard" and "port."  The crossover valve remains in the "off" position.

In an emergency, the crossover valve allows fuel to be delivered to both engines from a single tank but this is not used in normal operation.

Let us know how things are going or if you have other questions.

John

 



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460 Chris Craft Constellation
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TStellato
"Deckhand"




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Posted: August 14 2007 at 22:00 | IP Logged Quote TStellato


My husband (tony) pulled up the stairs leading to the aft and could not find any values for the fuel.  Any other areas that should look?  He said that he looked all over the engine room.  He is in NC and really wants to go ahead and burn through the front tanks so the fuel doesn't turn. 

We would also be glad to hear of any history on Bohemia (good or bad).  The guy we bought it from, bought it to "flip" it but he did nothing to upgrade it and the market went a bit soft the last 2 years.  He took a beating on the price to get rid of it (to our advantage).  We are live aboards also and were at one time in the same marina as Ron and Lexi.  Even though at the time we lived on a 83 footer we always had our sites on the Chris.  The only other boat that we really wanted was the 55' Chris flushdeck that was for sale last year.  But it needed so much to bring her back to her glory.  She was sold and is on the Great Lakes now.

Anyway any help on the fuel issue would be greatly appreciated.

Vicki


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Pete37
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Posted: August 15 2007 at 01:17 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Tony & Vicki, John, Ken, Furman & All,

I guess I didn't read correctly either when I welcomed you to the forum.  The profile just mentioned Tony but it was obvious from the message that it was Tony's wife that was making the post.  So Welcome Vicki.  Hope I''ve got it right now.

From what I've seen parquet flooring was standard but only in the galley.  My galley flooring needs some refinishing too.  I guess you varnish it but someone on the forum probably knows exactly how it's done.  Furman1 apparently has the scoop on parquet floooring. 

John of "Fantasea" has done a pretty good job of describing the fuel valves.  As he said, the fuel valves should be under the top step of the companionway leading from the lower salon into the aft section of the boat.  Lift up the top step and you will find three valve handles appropriately marked.  If you look in the engine room you should be able to see the profile of the companionway stairs protruding from the aft bulkhead on the port side.  And under the top step you will see the valves with multiple fuel lines leading to them.  The lowest step in the companionway also lifts up but just provides some storage space.  The middle step doesn't lift up.

There is no way to transfer fuel from one tank to another.  You can only select which tank you want to draw from.  One peculiarity of the fuel system is that there is nothing on either the lower or flybridge console which tells you which tanks you are drawing from.  And therefore, if you think you are drawing from the main tanks but are actually drawing from the forward tanks you can easily run out of fuel.  Of course hulls 498 & 499 have a lot of non-standard features so there may be a different fuel system too.  But I doubt it.

I wouldn't worry too much about the possibility of old fuel in the forward tanks. Continue running on the main tanks. You can use the fuel in the forward tanks after you get to Annapolis.  At 40 gph you can use up the fuel in both forward tanks in only 5 hours and on a boat that's been on brokerage for a long time it would probably be wise to have all the fuel in your tanks (even the new fuel) polished once you get to Annapolis.  There is no way of knowing what kind of crud you have in your tanks.  

On the subject of fuel tanks, make sure that the floor underneath the saddle tanks in the engine room is dry.  Wet floors have been known to corrode out fuel tanks.  Salt water leaking from the old Galley Maid head pumps (if you still have them) located just aft of the saddle tanks is the usual culpret. 

I posted a notice proposing a Connie rendezvous but didn't get any response.  Perhaps next year.

Pete37



Edited by Pete37 on August 16 2007 at 00:03


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Pete37
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Posted: August 15 2007 at 10:49 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi All,

Subject: Thru-Hull Safety Warning

Here is a safety warning about a problem which could send your boat to the bottom.  About 4 days ago I was working on installing a new water pump in the generator compartment.  The water pump is aft of the water heater on the starboard side and is outboard of the air conditioner (A/C) pump so that in order to get at the water pump you have to reach across the A/C pump. 

In doing so I inadvertently leaned on the A/C inlet strainer.  It is a bronze Groco ARG 1000 unit with two 1" NPT pipe nipples which are used to attach it to the 1" ID inlet and outlet hoses.  The filter is below the waterline and is attached directly to a thru-hull seacock.  Chris Craft mounted the filter on an aluminum bracket and aluminum doesn't get along with bronze in a wet salty environment. 

The upper support bracket of the filter broke free of the aluminum bracket, tilted sideways and cracked the lower support bracket as well, leaving the filter solely supported by the hoses.  And at this point the outlet pipe nipple from the filter cracked and broke free of filter producing an energetic 1" diameter stream of water.  Fortunately, I was there when the pipe broke and immediately shut off the seacock.

But after inspecting the pipe nipple I found out that the threaded end attached to the filter had completely disintegrated.  It looked like the type of disintegration that occurs when dissimilar metals are attached in salt water.

The next day I called Groco to order new mounting brackets and while I was at it I talked to Patrick who is Groco's technical expert.  He said that Groco filters are not normally attached to the hoses with pipe nipples.  The correct attachment part is called a tailpiece.  However, he said, in the past some manufacturer's used copper and even brass pipe nipples for the job. 

For those who don't have a complete grasp of plumbing terminology, a pipe nipple is simply a short piece of pipe threaded on both ends.  It's length, while undefined, can be up to 24".  I looked for sources of bronze pipe nipples and found that West Marine could not find a source for bronze pipe nipples and therefore offers red brass for pipe diameters over 1/2".  A search on the web was similarly unproductive.

Brass, as most of you know, is totally unsuitable for use in salt water.  It contains zinc and undergoes a process called dezincification when used in salt water.  Basically, this means that the brass simply crumbles in salt water.  The pipe nipple that failed was definitely Chris Craft original equipment because it had the bonding wire tab and the bonding wire was properly attached to it.

Patrick said that the pipe nipple may not have been bronze and that could have caused the corrosion at the joint between the pipe and filter.  But he also said that high volume water flow, such as in A/C or engine inlets, causes the walls of even bronze pipes to thin out over time.  However, whatever the cause, the pipe which failed had definitely suffered serious deterioration.  I looked at several other pipe nipples on the boat and found some signs of deterioraton on them as well.

In summary, any pipe attached to a seawater inlet is suspect and may fail.  And if it does it could sink your boat. 

The solution was simple.  I bought new tailpieces for the filter.  Groco makes tailpieces but unfortunately their tailpieces which have a 1" NPT thread fit 1.25" ID hose while the hose used on Connies is 1" ID.  Fortunately Conbraco makes bronze tailpieces with 1" NPT thread which fit 1" ID hose.  Their Part number is 65-007-52.  West Marine (page 515 of their 2007 Catalog) sells these tailpieces using their part number 434888 at $15.79 each.  I bought two (one for the filter inlet and one for the outlet) for a total of about $33.  This is a fairly cheap fix for a potentially serious problem.

Connies have seven intake thru-hull seacocks; two engine, one A/C, one generator and three head seacocks.  There are also four head exhaust seacocks.  They all should be inspected but the A/C and generator seacocks are the most likely to be defective.  I found, while I was at it, that the rubber hoses also badly neaded to be replaced.  I've fixed the A/C inlet and will work on the generator inlet next.

BTW, the large engine intakes are most impressive parts but unfortunately they don't seem to be very effective.  Eelgrass goes right through them and lodges in the transmission cooler.  If you are having overheating problems remove the pipe plugs on the side of the cooler intake end and and look for debris with a flashlight.  Most of the debis can usually be blasted out with a garden hose.

On a 20 year old boat the plexiglass cylinders of the engine intake filters are usually opaque by now.  I removed and cleaned mine so I could see what was accumulating in the filter.  Soap and water only removed part of the grime and I had to use muriatic acid to remove the remainder.  On & Off would probably also work.  When reassembling them do not use the three rods on the circumference to seal leaks.  Leave them loose and tighten the central rod with the wingnut.  Then lightly tighten the three rods on the circumference. 

The plexiglass bowls of the smaller ARG 1000 and ARG 750 filters can usually be cleaned with a toilet bowl brush inserted through the top.

Pete37

 



Edited by Pete37 on August 16 2007 at 00:03


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Ken27
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Posted: August 15 2007 at 13:04 | IP Logged Quote Ken27

Tony and Vicki,

OK, I believe I have it.  Tony is the captain and Vicki the admiral.

On the fuel valve confusion.  Perhaps the top step leading to the aft stateroom has been carpeted over.  That was the situation on our '85.  I new the valves were there when the boat was purchased, however I had to cut the recently laid carpet to access them during the survey.

Ken

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