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Pete37
"Commander"




Joined: November 12 2006
Posts: 2317
Posted: February 03 2014 at 16:50 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Bob,

Subject: Drop the Muffler Topic!

In my post of 2/2/2014 22:44 I suggested we drop the Muffler topic until May so that we could get enough data to talk intelligently about the topic. And in the last line of the post I asked you to agree to it.

You never agreed to it and now on 2/3/2014 you are still yammaring about it and spewing further distortions. Centek's data per their graph does not show 25-30 dB at the sound frequencies produced by most diesels.

We'll see what these new sound measuremens you have talked about show. Until then, drop the muffler topic!

Pete37



Edited by Pete37 on February 04 2014 at 21:12


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NautiKall
"Seaman"




Joined: January 22 2014
Posts: 73
Posted: February 03 2014 at 17:11 | IP Logged Quote NautiKall

It's comforting to know there is still interest from others in taking advantage of what is now available and quieting the Connies that are loud. If your Connie is not loud, I recommend that you save the money. I expect my change-out will cost a little less than $5,000 including the labor.

I appreciate all of the input I have been given.  The forum is good. I've noticed, however, thru the years that this forum has been flooded with chippy nickel and dime cost evaluations.  It kind of cheapens the value of our investments and the love of our hobby.  The guy in the slip next to me spent about $80,000 to re-power his old pristine Trojan with new Cummins engines.  They are sweet and quiet.  That couple is very happy with what they have. 

Old saying:  "If you can't afford the ante, get out of the game".

Bob K.


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"NautiKall"
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NautiKall
"Seaman"




Joined: January 22 2014
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Posted: February 03 2014 at 17:36 | IP Logged Quote NautiKall

Pete,

I agree.  You should drop the topic until you can speak more intelligently about it.  I only post when I have new info, or am asked a question.  Your repetitive comments are very irritating to me and probably to others.  By May I will be operating with new quiet mufflers.  You promised to stop posting, except occasionally until the forum shuts down.

Bob K.


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Pats2nd Connie
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Joined: June 28 2013
Posts: 157
Posted: February 03 2014 at 17:41 | IP Logged Quote Pats2nd Connie

Look forward to hearing how hey work Bob. I jumped out in front on
the freewheeling topic by testing their performance with possibly
jeapordising my tranni's. Cud does for you.

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Pats2nd Connie
"Deckhand"




Joined: June 28 2013
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Posted: February 03 2014 at 17:42 | IP Logged Quote Pats2nd Connie

Bob, that's supposed to be Cuddos.   And I can't spell worth a crap.

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Fantasy
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Joined: November 30 2006
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Posted: February 03 2014 at 17:52 | IP Logged Quote Fantasy

Thanks for keeping us posted on your progress, Bob.

John

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Furman1
"Deckhand"




Joined: November 27 2006
Posts: 227
Posted: February 03 2014 at 18:24 | IP Logged Quote Furman1

Don't know if it's what caused it, but my 692s are fairly quiet when I'm on the fly bridge. And not too bad at the lower helm. It might have something to do with my extending the swim platform to 54 inches and adding 45 degree tune downs and outs on the exhausts. I also added 1 inch of lead foam to the engine room hatches then enchased that in painted pegboard. This may be a lot less expensive than new mufflers . Plus the extended swim platform makes for easier docking.

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Furman
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Furman1
"Deckhand"




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Posts: 227
Posted: February 03 2014 at 18:25 | IP Logged Quote Furman1

sorry meant turn downs

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eshover
"Deckhand"




Joined: July 02 2011
Posts: 205
Posted: February 03 2014 at 18:27 | IP Logged Quote eshover

Furman - how does the extended platform make for easier
docking? Curious.

Emory

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Furman1
"Deckhand"




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Posts: 227
Posted: February 03 2014 at 18:36 | IP Logged Quote Furman1

By giving us a wider area to stand on and when it's docking to floating docks you can just step over to the dock.
BTW when I'm on the platform it easier to use my walker when we dock.   

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eshover
"Deckhand"




Joined: July 02 2011
Posts: 205
Posted: February 03 2014 at 18:43 | IP Logged Quote eshover

Yes. I understand what you are saying. Allen (Grey Goose)
built his own and did a fantastic job. I waited too long to
follow up and he cut up the mold. I would love to build one
for mine. But, so many things crop up, it's difficult to
prioritize sometimes.

Emory

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Pete37
"Commander"




Joined: November 12 2006
Posts: 2317
Posted: February 03 2014 at 19:35 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi All,

Looks like we had another 21 post day. Things are looking up.

Pete37

PS: Bob. I'll stop posting about mufflers when you do the same. Tell me when you are going to stop.
PS: Emory. I didn't add anytning on my transom but my Connie is pretty quiet (66 dB). I think it's a matter of attitude.

Edited by Pete37 on February 03 2014 at 19:44


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Pats2nd Connie
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Posted: February 03 2014 at 19:37 | IP Logged Quote Pats2nd Connie



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Patrick hoffman
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Pete37
"Commander"




Joined: November 12 2006
Posts: 2317
Posted: February 03 2014 at 20:17 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi All,

Subject: Boat Noise

Since Bob refuses to agree to dropping the muffler talk heres another post on the subject. It's easy to understand because it doesn't have any technical talk (other than dBs).

I did a quick check of the noise levels of six yachts reviewed in my current boating magazines. Their average noise level at 600 rpm was 62.5 dB. At 1800 rpm it was 70.5; Only 8 dB (6.3 times) above that at 600 rpm.

My Connie has a noise level of 66 dB at 600 rpm so at 1800 rpm (my high cruise speed) it's noise level will probably be about (66+8) = 74 dB. That's 11 dB lower than the 85 dB listed as an 8 hour permissable exposure time.

And since permissible exposure time doubles for each 3 dB below 85 dB more than 32 times as long or about 256 hours (10.6 days). Doesn't look like I'll need ear muffs for any except my most squeamish guests. Shall, I reserve some for you Bob?

Nothing to debate here. I'll check it out in May with my sound meter when I get the boat out.

Pete37

Edited by Pete37 on February 03 2014 at 20:33


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NautiKall
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Posted: February 03 2014 at 20:45 | IP Logged Quote NautiKall

       


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David Ross
"Navigator"




Joined: January 02 2007
Posts: 452
Posted: February 03 2014 at 21:00 | IP Logged Quote David Ross

Pete, If someone wants to do something or make a change on their boat after doing research and getting info from this site, including yours, LET IT BE. You have a way of annoying people and apparently are not aware of it. Most here have put up with it and just kept quiet and a few have been more direct (after taking it as long as they could). I have tried a little humor, been tactful and repeatedly (rePETEedly??) mentioned that posters keep away from making arrogant and pompous comments. I did that without making it personal.

You have to be commended for all it took to start and make this site the success it became. Your have much knowledge and your input can be extremely helpful. It is a shame when you get on these tangents. It's not just about the muffler discussion, it has happened many times before. Like I was told as a kid, "if you want to play in the sand box, you have to be nice". The sandbox quote is appropriate in more ways then one. Some of the recent posts sound like little kids fighting... . As a better writer than I once said, "much ado about nothing."



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Fantasy
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Joined: November 30 2006
Posts: 324
Posted: February 03 2014 at 21:14 | IP Logged Quote Fantasy

Uh oh David, you just joined the cabal of misguided forum members.

John

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Pete37
"Commander"




Joined: November 12 2006
Posts: 2317
Posted: February 03 2014 at 21:48 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Dave,

I donít think you understand whatís going on. This whole muffler thing is a scam being foisted upon the members of the forum by a small group of members at $5,000 per sucker.

I donít care what the forum members put on their boats. Itís their boat and their money. But I donít like to see one group of forum members defrauding another; especially at $5,000 per clip. Once that type of stuff happens the forum is doomed.

Think Iím being overly suspicious? Iíve seen it happen on other forums. Their first step was a phony boycott of the forum. Their next step will be to try to cut me off. I think that's happening already. Did you see Bob's latest post with the little icon laughing at all of us.

Pete37

PS: "much ado about nothing"? I think $5,000 is a lot more than nothing.

Edited by Pete37 on February 03 2014 at 22:00


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Fantasy
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Posted: February 03 2014 at 22:00 | IP Logged Quote Fantasy

Unbelievable! You need an intervention and psychological help, Mr. Pete37. It's you against the world. Very sad.

John

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"Fantasy"
460 Chris Craft Constellation
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Grey Goose
"Deckhand"




Joined: October 25 2009
Posts: 200
Posted: February 04 2014 at 06:51 | IP Logged Quote Grey Goose

I have been thinking of using a chandelier in the engine room for
lighting. I have found 12v bulbs that fit it. I have not calculated the
luminous of the bulbs yet, but feel it should broadcast enough light to
see very well. My question is do you see any reason that it's a bad idea
to purchase a genuine crystal one or just use a cheap fake crystal
engine room lighting fixture?

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-- Goose --
"Grey Goose"
1987 Chris Craft 501
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Grey Goose
"Deckhand"




Joined: October 25 2009
Posts: 200
Posted: February 04 2014 at 08:12 | IP Logged Quote Grey Goose

Pete
Who are these members that the muffler scam are foisting? I don't
need a muffler, so I'm not being foisted. Can you name one? Of course
you Pete37 are too intelligent to be foisted, so you are out. I'm just
wondering which member is being foisted. Name just one.

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-- Goose --
"Grey Goose"
1987 Chris Craft 501
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Pete37
"Commander"




Joined: November 12 2006
Posts: 2317
Posted: February 04 2014 at 09:47 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Allan,

Subject: Names

Yes I know exactly who's foisting the scam but you know damn well that I can't mention names. It's mainly the four members of the cabal. You should be able to guess the names without even reading the recent posts.

Look first at who stands to gain financially from the sale of the mufflers. If he or they get a 25% kickback (sales fee) their profits would be in the thousands of dollars. Perhaps even $10,000 if a lot of mufflers are sold.

As to who's buying the mufflers or even likely to buy them you would have to ask Bob about that. At $5,000 per pair I wouldn't think the list would be too long.

Pete37

Edited by Pete37 on February 04 2014 at 09:57


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Pats2nd Connie
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Posted: February 04 2014 at 09:56 | IP Logged Quote Pats2nd Connie



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Grey Goose
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Joined: October 25 2009
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Posted: February 04 2014 at 10:00 | IP Logged Quote Grey Goose

I was pretty sure you couldn't come up with a name.



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-- Goose --
"Grey Goose"
1987 Chris Craft 501
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Pete37
"Commander"




Joined: November 12 2006
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Posted: February 04 2014 at 10:01 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Pat,

From your emoticon it looks like you're having some indigestion. I'm having some too. I don't like chislers.

Pete37

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Grey Goose
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Posted: February 04 2014 at 10:01 | IP Logged Quote Grey Goose

I was pretty sure you couldn't come up with a name.



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-- Goose --
"Grey Goose"
1987 Chris Craft 501
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Pete37
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Joined: November 12 2006
Posts: 2317
Posted: February 04 2014 at 10:04 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Allan,

I can come up with the names of the foisters very easily. I have a typed list but I can't publish it here.      But since Bob seems to be the main salesman for the mufflers he might know the foisters and foistees. Why don't you ask him?

Pete37

Edited by Pete37 on February 04 2014 at 10:14


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Fantasy
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Posted: February 04 2014 at 10:13 | IP Logged Quote Fantasy

Why not? The truth is its own best defense. If you have evidence, spill it. Fact is not libel, but your innuendo may be.

John

Edited by Fantasy on February 04 2014 at 10:14


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"Fantasy"
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Pats2nd Connie
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Joined: June 28 2013
Posts: 157
Posted: February 04 2014 at 10:13 | IP Logged Quote Pats2nd Connie

No Pete, that look is because I'm tired of your crap. It's none of your
business what people do to their boats.

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Pete37
"Commander"




Joined: November 12 2006
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Posted: February 04 2014 at 10:40 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Pat, John and Allan,

Pat: Yes, it's none of my business what people do with their boats and I said that a couple posts ago. But it is my business if one forum member tries to scam another forum member using the forum as a communication medium.

John: Allan asked if I knew who the foisters were and I said yes. But knowing and proving in court are two different things. The only way I could prove it in court would be to ask Bob. But I doubt he'd ever show up. And be realistic, none of us can go to court over this matter except one of the people who are scammed. The scammed person would be the only person who would have the legal status to sue.

Allan: Again I suggest you ask Bob for the answers to your questions. He's the main salesman for the mufflers and doesn't share his data with me. If there are no potential buyers we can put this whole topic on hold until there are buyers.

Pete37


Edited by Pete37 on February 04 2014 at 21:21


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courtship
"Seaman Recruit"




Joined: December 08 2008
Posts: 3
Posted: February 04 2014 at 11:58 | IP Logged Quote courtship

If you're (you know who you are) really trying to get the forum killed, keep up the back and forth sniping. Frankly, I imagine there are fewer than 3 people who have any interest whatsoever in your constant back and forth, cut-downs, claims of scams, general "I know more than you" talk, etc. So please drop it or take it off the forum and attack each other personally in your own email inboxes. I'm one who gets notices in their inbox of new activity on the forum and I'm getting sick and tired of having nothing but this drivel filling up my inbox. I used to get useful information from people like Pete37 but now all I get is anger between him and a couple other members.

I had a few things to post on topics other than mufflers lately but don't feel like risking the wrath. The Facebook page is looking like a better option every day.

Best Regards.

Edited by courtship on February 04 2014 at 12:00


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David Ross
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Posted: February 04 2014 at 13:00 | IP Logged Quote David Ross

Steve, you make some good points. Why not post your topics and see if we can get back on track. If someone is negative we should ignore their post and not respond, instead of continuing the drivel. Eventually any culprit may stop this nonsense. 



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Pete37
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Posted: February 04 2014 at 13:57 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi All,

Subject: Muffler Insurance

Johnís ďprove itĒ comment in his last post brought to my mind that there are insurance aspects to this muffler replacement task.

Bob (a forum member) proposed it and has been its leading proponent. He has also proposed that the work be done in his shop (or at least by his workmen). And he has worked as the salesman for Centek so he probably will get some sort of commission. Net result: Bob definitely has a financial stake in the mufflers.

The mufflers have been discussed by the forum (ad nauseum) and basically approved by many of the forum members.

The question now becomes ďIf the mufflers catch fire or pump carbon monoxide into the cabin asphyxiating the inhabitants, who do the lawyers sue?

Obviously, they sue Bob because he installed the mufflers. Hopefully, he has enough insurance to cover the claims. But if he doesnít the lawyers will start looking for other parties to sue. And they usually search on the basis of ďHe who has the gold.Ē We as forum members are probably fairly safe because we are ďsmall fryĒ. The big guys are Boat US and Centek.

BoatUS gets involved because it was their forum that proposed, approved and had a lot to do with the selection of the contractor and how the mufflers were installed. Centek gets involved because they built the muffler and supervised parts of the installation.

Donít assume that the installation of the mufflers is simply a contract between the installer and the buyer. Lawyers, when in the ďfind parties to sueĒ mode can get very inventive.

I donít think fire is a big risk but Iím continually hearing of leaky exhaust parts asphyxiating people. All it takes is someone not tightening a hose clamp properly.

Anyway in this litigious world itís a good idea to worry about liability. I hope the forum will work this all out.

Pete37


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Pete37
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Posted: February 04 2014 at 14:16 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Dave and Steve,

Subject: Drivel

I hope that you will remember that I proposed to Bob to stop the muffler stuff twice if he would stop but Bob refused to stop. I don't think he'll ever stop.

I would now like to get back to discussing Track It TV which I was working on before Bob barged back in with muffler stuff.

Pete37

Edited by Pete37 on February 04 2014 at 14:26


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Bellavita3
"Seaman"




Joined: July 28 2008
Posts: 63
Posted: February 04 2014 at 14:22 | IP Logged Quote Bellavita3

Long ago I vowed never to post here again because of Pete's
NEED to always be right and slam EVERY single idea as too
costly, unsafe or whatever crazy reason he can dream up
with useless facts and figures. I've read every post lately
and this craziness has got to stop. If you completely ignore
the bully, maybe he'll eventually shut up. That's all I have to
say on the subject. Pete - I will not engage you, but will
continue to laugh at your insanity while I enjoy the friendly
exchange of ideas over on Facebook.

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1985 Chris Craft 460
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Pete37
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Posted: February 04 2014 at 15:14 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Bella Vita,

It's strange that people say I'm killing the forum. There are only two forums out of the origional 100s left on the Manufacturer's Forums; the Catalina and the Connie. The Catalina had less than 40 posts last year while the Connie had over 600. That's a 15:1 ratio. Recently we've been having strings of 20 post days.

Of course there is another Catalina forum elsewhere on the web. I've tried it. Not bad but the graphics leave a lot to be desired.

You can try it too. Rick welcomes new posters. I tried the other Catalina Forum for a while but eventually came back here and rescued this forum from it's moribund state.

And in spite of my supposed malfeasance this is still the premier site on Connies. Also the only site dedicated solely to Connies. And the only boating forum anywhere with a 5 gigabyte library. When you ask a question remember the answer is backed by that library.

It's lasted over 8 years while everything else withered and died.

Pete37

Edited by Pete37 on February 04 2014 at 15:24


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BrianAzar
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Admin

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Posts: 58
Posted: February 04 2014 at 16:27 | IP Logged Quote BrianAzar

Good afternoon everyone,
I know every person in here is very passionate about their Connie, and should be allowed to post projects, comments and questions regarding their boats, and everyone is free to answer and weigh in on those questions or comments.

Since this thread consists of many topics by many users over many years, I recommend this thread [Murray Chris Craft Constellations] be kept for general conversation regarding your boats, weekend plans, minor questions, etc. The way this forum is built allows everyone to create a thread under the "Chris Craft" name; if you have a project or long write-up regarding a certain subject or project, a better fit would be to create your own topic specifically geared towards that subject matter. The advantage of having your own topic is that users who wish to weigh in on answering questions or to just follow your progress are able to, and those who aren't interested in that topic can choose not to participate.

You are open to post your opinions on this forum (as long as they are within our rules), however please be respectful of other members and their choice to continue doing their own projects and modifications to their own boats. Each one of you has made an investment, and continue to, but it is up to each person whether they want to continue with a project based on their own initiative and feedback of other members; it is their right to continue with the project even if you don't agree with it. Please be respectful of each other's opinions and rights.


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diveryates
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Joined: January 02 2007
Posts: 845
Posted: February 04 2014 at 17:35 | IP Logged Quote diveryates

NauriKall,
Excellent, understood. Always appreciate eloquence.. Thank you!
So-
It is impossible to tell which type as you describe are shown in the Centek graphics of straight thru vs a reversing flow arrangment. There's no description other than they are designed for limited space either vertically or horz. They do say to call them, so maybe it's as simple as that.

Fortunately, as I described in my observations on our boat, the inlet/outlet ports are offset to accommodate holding water as part of flow control where the inlet is higher, outlet lower leaving a reservoir of sorts. That part looks simple enough. It's the inside per your description is what's not specified.

The MKII oval appears to have more interior volume available to accommodate the more complex arrangement you describe. I'm doubting the round units have enough volume for that, but that's pretty much speculation on my part.
They do offer their various lines in a good assortment of sizes, so that's encouraging. Key is the level of improvement in attenuation. While 20 db vs 17 is good,
17 vs 25 or 30 db is where I start to take a serous look. The variety of sizes will allow installation IF the flow geometry and db reduction are a proven thing.

Another thing I noticed is that at idle, the engine sounds pretty quiet(approaching an IO drive) and noise is all out the back, meaning right at the transom outlet- not the muffler. interesting.. At speed, things get much louder from engine clatter, wining, whatever all that is and I speculate these noises cannot be mitigated by mufflers. The thing is though is I can't tell how much of engine noise there is and what percentage of all that is well aft. Also, not sure whether at the transom or one does actually start to hear the muffler- can't tell- things are pretty loud and I have not tried to isolate different sources. I speculate the majority is out the transom outlet.
Perhaps nailing down what is available by model # along the lines of your muffler plumbing outline would be productive? Does any Mfg'r or for that matter Centek detail the same as you did on you Feb. 2 post?

I definitely feel that investigation along these lines would be productive. In the end, I would easily live with a simple swap out with a slight, bulletproof change in geometry and we're done. That... works for us.

Again, Thank you!
Diver    

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Roy & Laurie, S.F. Bay Area
'83 280, hardtop, single 305
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Pete37
"Commander"




Joined: November 12 2006
Posts: 2317
Posted: February 04 2014 at 17:56 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Bob,

Why don't you put your muffler stuff on a separate forum as Brian suggests? At $5,000 per pair I don't think many people are interested anyway and you could notify the ones that are by email. Then they would have all the stuff on mufflers in one place and you wouldn't interfere with general business.

Pete37

Edited by Pete37 on February 04 2014 at 17:58


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Pete37
"Commander"




Joined: November 12 2006
Posts: 2317
Posted: February 04 2014 at 18:09 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Diver,

If you're really interested in the noise problem why don't you get yourself a sound meter? They're not very expensive and provide solid reliable results. Well worth doing before investing $5,000 on mufflers. The picture below shows what my meter looks like. I paid about $25 for mine in the 80s. Today it costs about $40.



Pete37

Edited by Pete37 on February 04 2014 at 19:36


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