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TStellato
"Deckhand"




Joined: August 12 2007
Posts: 206
Posted: October 17 2007 at 16:59 | IP Logged Quote TStellato


Hi Folks,

I went to firm up plans at Mike's and the owner over-ruled the Manager on taking all the T-heads. I am afraid that Pete is correct on there are not enough regular slips to fit all the boats without using the ends. BUT>>> I spoke with our Marina Manager (Edgewater Boating Center) and he has enough slips with Electric (very good slips) for everyone to come to our marina. Normally transist fees are $1.50/ft. but the manager said that he would do $1/ft. Our marina is just after the South River Bridge (hang a right after you go under and go up the creek) So if everyone is in agreement, I propose the following:

Arrive at the marina
Go to Yellow Fin restaurant at 2pm when they start 1/2 price appetizers (really really good food) Located right next to the marina.
Come back and go back to looking at the boats and talking about issues, etc then have a lite supper happy hour in the evening on the Five Star.

If you want brunch Yellow Fin serves brunch on Sundays.

Five Star will pay $10 towards each boats dockage since we are already here. Our Marina is very quiet and small. The docks are very good (Pete and Ron have both seen them). There are 0 issues with electric or docks. Plenty of woods to walk the dog.

I apologize for this change - it was a complete turn around from what the manager and I discussed the other day. What are the thoughts of the group? Please let me know so I can reserve the space (this time it is a guarantee!)


Vicki




__________________
Tony and Vicki
FIVE STAR
1985 Constellation
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Banjoman
"First Mate"




Joined: July 02 2007
Posts: 553
Posted: October 17 2007 at 18:45 | IP Logged Quote Banjoman

Vicki - Shirley and I have no problems with this.  It will probably work out better in the long run anyway.  However, you do not mention the length of the finger piers.  I still have to get a dog of the boat.  Are they long enough to access the side doors?  Or can I get on a T-head there?

And don't worry about the $10, this mis-communication was between a restaurant owner and manager.  Not your fault.  If you feel that compelled, donate my $10 to MS.  My daughter has to deal with that, so I take any opportunity to direct donations that way.

Hope we all agree on the new location.  Time is short.  We want to go somewhere this beautiful weekend anyway.  I've heard the Shark Fin is very good.  One owner's loss is another owner's gain.

Emory

"Southern Charm



__________________
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m/v "SOUTHERN CHARM"
Eastern Marine Services, LLC
Marine Survey - Yacht Delivery
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TStellato
"Deckhand"




Joined: August 12 2007
Posts: 206
Posted: October 17 2007 at 19:19 | IP Logged Quote TStellato


I can assure you that you will have zero problems.  We have use of (2) 50 ft slips and the whole 160 ft plus of dock in front of us.  We are all on the same dock.  The slips are able to bow in. The others are like us and along side the dock with tall pilings. the one slip does have a skinny finger and we will make sure that you are not there. ALL slips have 50 amp service.  Hope everyone else agrees to this new arrangement.  We could go on one boat to Mike's for dinner, but I really don't feel like giving them our money after the back out on the agreed arrangement.

The name of our creek is Gingerville Creek.  After you go under the South River Bridge (page 4  A4) on the ADC Chesapeake charts, you turn right to enter the creek, you will pass one marina with gas docks, then smaller docks.  We have a 52 Hatteras LRC on the end "Mary Kathryn" this is our dock.  We are right on the alley way from the Hatt.  Call my cell 240-723-1654 when you are close.


__________________
Tony and Vicki
FIVE STAR
1985 Constellation
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Delaware Jim
"Navigator"




Joined: December 27 2006
Posts: 381
Posted: October 17 2007 at 21:39 | IP Logged Quote Delaware Jim

Vicki,

You gave up your cell number, but how about having everyone call in as we get close on VHF channel 71 to communicate with you as we get close?  What channel(s) does the marina monitor for dock assignments?

Delaware Jim



__________________
"Still In the Mood"
1985 Chris Craft 500 Constellation
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TStellato
"Deckhand"




Joined: August 12 2007
Posts: 206
Posted: October 17 2007 at 22:12 | IP Logged Quote TStellato



The marina office is closed on the weekends.  We will monitor channel 68.  We will be your dock hands lol!


__________________
Tony and Vicki
FIVE STAR
1985 Constellation
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Delaware Jim
"Navigator"




Joined: December 27 2006
Posts: 381
Posted: October 17 2007 at 23:17 | IP Logged Quote Delaware Jim

OK on 68! 

"Dockhands": I just hope you have a strong back as I'm still pretty new with the 50...

See you Saturday!

Jim & Marie



__________________
"Still In the Mood"
1985 Chris Craft 500 Constellation
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Pete37
"Commander"




Joined: November 12 2006
Posts: 2317
Posted: October 18 2007 at 00:53 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi All Rendezvous Goers,

Looks like I'm the last one checking in on the latest change of plans.  It sounds like an improvement and apparently everyone has agreed to it.  I like it too. 

In making slip arrangements remember Connies are about 56' 6" long (tip of bowsprit to outside of swim platform) not the nominal 50' we usually talk about.  But it sounds like we still have enough room if we put 2 Connies in the slips and the remainder on the north side of the dock.  That will make the length of the boats on the side of the dock about 175' including a nominal 2' clearance between boats.  I looked at the dock with Google-Earth and it was 209' long provided no one wants to get into the travel lift slip.

I'm still having problems with my starboard starter.  Thought I had it fixed but it's still troublesome.  I think I'll replace the battery tomorrow.  It checked out OK in voltage and hydrometer tests but it's over eight years old and could still be the problem.

Cell phones are the best way of ship to shore communication if you have one and today almost everyone does.  Their range is unlimited and they connect directly to the person you are calling with a ringer to alert them you are calling.  And you are almost always with range of a cell tower on the Eastern Seaboard.  But you can't talk to other boats unless you know their phone number.  Fortunately we know Vicky's.

There is some ominous weather over the central states which could drift over us by Saturday.  Hope the weather patterns change by then.  See you Saturday God, the weather and the starter willing.

Pete37



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INTERLUDE
A Murray Chris Craft Constellation 500
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Pete37
"Commander"




Joined: November 12 2006
Posts: 2317
Posted: October 18 2007 at 00:59 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

To Delaware Jim,

When you get close to the dock drop your engine speed back to 600 rpm on both engines and never, never, never use the throttles while maneuvering.  Do all your maneuvering with the shift levers.  If you do that all your dockings will be safe ones.

Pete37



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A Murray Chris Craft Constellation 500
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Pete37
"Commander"




Joined: November 12 2006
Posts: 2317
Posted: October 18 2007 at 01:15 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

To All:

Subject: First Murray Chris Craft Constellation 500 Forum Rendezvous

I am happy to announce that the first rendezvous of the members of the Murray Chris Craft Constellation 500 Forum will be held on Saturday October 20, 2007 starting at noon.  Five Connies are expected to attend.  The location is the Edgewater Boating Center marina in Edgewater, MD off Route 2 just before you cross the South River Bridge.  This is the old Wilkins Yacht Yard.

Any Connie owners who can't come by boat are invited to visit by car.

Pete37



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David Ross
"Navigator"




Joined: January 02 2007
Posts: 452
Posted: October 18 2007 at 09:07 | IP Logged Quote David Ross

To all going on rendezvous,

I am going to try to make it by car since the latest grandchild is due anytime and that will allow me to be on call and head home if necessary. I am keeping advised of your changes and updates by the site posts.

Dave



__________________
DAVE
GOOD SPIRITS
500 CONSTELLATION (1987)
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Banjoman
"First Mate"




Joined: July 02 2007
Posts: 553
Posted: October 18 2007 at 09:42 | IP Logged Quote Banjoman

Pete - The wind, current and tide will absolutely dictate the use of throttles from time-to-time, but we can talk of this over drinks.  This sounds like the begining of some fun times, huh?

Dave - Congrats on the pending birthday of that grandbaby!  I remember my first and it brings to mind a story that will need to be told to you over a libation as well.  You'll get a chuckle out of hearing the tale of a panic-stricken grampa.

Vicky - Thanks for all you hard work!  Organizing anything (even my garage) is a tough thing to do.  I'm looking forward to meeting everyone.  I've even taken this day to go to Annapolis and clean the ol' gal down.  The flybridge is filthy.  (I hate cleaning the FB, it's the last place I think of.) 

Bye ya'll...

Emory



__________________
Capt. G. Emory Shover
m/v "SOUTHERN CHARM"
Eastern Marine Services, LLC
Marine Survey - Yacht Delivery
www.easternmarineservices.com
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TStellato
"Deckhand"




Joined: August 12 2007
Posts: 206
Posted: October 18 2007 at 09:42 | IP Logged Quote TStellato


Dave,

I see you are on line.  The address is 2802 Solomons Island Rd.  If you are coming south on RT 2 from Annapolis or RT 50, look for small boats for sale and the blue and a gold sign "Jonathan Foster Boats" on your right.  Turn between the boats and the spa store.  Come down the driveway and you will see us.  Boats should be there about noon and then we will walk up to Yellow Fin around 2pm to eat.


__________________
Tony and Vicki
FIVE STAR
1985 Constellation
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Delaware Jim
"Navigator"




Joined: December 27 2006
Posts: 381
Posted: October 18 2007 at 10:26 | IP Logged Quote Delaware Jim

Hi all!

On docking, I know the "how", it is just the practice I'm lacking!  I have had a 36' gas engine boat for 5 years - the differences are the 1-2 seconds it takes for the hydraulic transmissions to engage and the overall size/bulk/windage of the 50.

BTW, I have a long TNT hydraulic swim platform, so I'm more like 58 feet LOA.

See you Saturday!

Delaware Jim



__________________
"Still In the Mood"
1985 Chris Craft 500 Constellation
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David Ross
"Navigator"




Joined: January 02 2007
Posts: 452
Posted: October 18 2007 at 13:58 | IP Logged Quote David Ross

To the Rendezvous Group,

Tony & Vicki- thanks for the land yacht directions.

Emory- this will be our third grandchild but the first from our daughter and son-in-law. Each event is exciting. Looking forward to your grampa story.

Jim- thanks for sending the ssb pages. My unit is the SEA 223, but your 222 model seems to be about the same. 

To all heading to South River- have a good safe cruise. Looking forward to meetng everyone.

Dave



__________________
DAVE
GOOD SPIRITS
500 CONSTELLATION (1987)
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rvolker
"Seaman Recruit"




Joined: October 18 2007
Posts: 8
Posted: October 18 2007 at 18:30 | IP Logged Quote rvolker

Hello All,

We (Randy and Deana) are new to this forum but own a Constellation 460 (1986).  We currently have our boat docked on the Potomac at the D.C. waterfront.  We would like to attend this Saturday's gathering (by car).  If all goes as planned we will look for all of you on Saturday.

Randy and Deana



__________________
Randy
Freedom
Point Loma, CA
Constellation 460 - 1986
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Pete37
"Commander"




Joined: November 12 2006
Posts: 2317
Posted: October 18 2007 at 22:10 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi All Rendezvous Goers,

Looks like all the preparations have been made.  All that's left to do now is to wait out the weather.  Friday looks bad with small craft warnings, 25 knot winds and 60% chance of rain.  But the small craft warning expires at noon Saturday and the rest of the weekend is predicted to be very nice.

If the weather moves a little faster than predicted it should be clear and relatively calm by 10:00 AM Saturday at about the time most of us will leave for the South River.  But if the weather moves slowly those of us crossing the Bay could hit some nasty weather.  It's too early to tell now.  My guess is that we won't know the answer until early Saturday morning.

One question.  If all of the boat owners are going to be at the Yellow Fin at 2:00 PM who is going to be around to greet those arriving by car?

Pete37



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Banjoman
"First Mate"




Joined: July 02 2007
Posts: 553
Posted: October 18 2007 at 22:13 | IP Logged Quote Banjoman

Randy & Deana,

So you're the folks with the 460 Connie?  I've watched your boat since she came into Gangplank (no I'm not stalking you!).  I worked for the past seven years as one of the Charter Captain's on the 58' Hatt YF behind you (Christina).  I have put her up for sale on behalf of the owner.  I saw you power up a couple of weeks ago and go out for a while.  My wife and I almost bought a 460 five years ago but ended up with the 500 (that's another story over a beer or ten).  Look forward to meeting you on Saturday.

Emory



__________________
Capt. G. Emory Shover
m/v "SOUTHERN CHARM"
Eastern Marine Services, LLC
Marine Survey - Yacht Delivery
www.easternmarineservices.com
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Pete37
"Commander"




Joined: November 12 2006
Posts: 2317
Posted: October 19 2007 at 10:53 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi All Rendezvous Goers,

Good news! The latest forecast (@ 10:15 AM Friday on weather.com) for 10:00 AM Saturday is for sunny, 66 deg F and winds 9 mph from the west.  Looks like we're go for the rendezvous.

Pete37



Edited by Pete37 on October 19 2007 at 11:03


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TStellato
"Deckhand"




Joined: August 12 2007
Posts: 206
Posted: October 19 2007 at 14:54 | IP Logged Quote TStellato



Randy and Deana,

We would love to have you join us on Saturday.  We will be docked at Edgewater Boating Center  2802 Solomons Island Rd.  Edgewater, MD  The other boats should be arriving about noon.

Directions from DC: 395 north, up the ramp for Mass Ave, left at the first light over the Sousa Bridge will put you on 295 north,  go 3-4 miles, exit at Rt 50 east.
Get off at Exit 22 Aris T. Allen Blvd/Riva Road, go straight for about 3/4 mile, exit right onto RT2 Solomons Island Road.  Look for the "Jonathan Foster" boat sign about 1 1/2 miles down on your right.  Turn on road in between Jonathan's and Chesapeake Spas. 

If you arrive after 2pm go past the road for the marina and turn into Yellow Fin (next door), that's where we will be.  We have reserved seating for our group.  I think that we are 16 people now.  Looking forward to meeting everyone!


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Tony and Vicki
FIVE STAR
1985 Constellation
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TStellato
"Deckhand"




Joined: August 12 2007
Posts: 206
Posted: October 20 2007 at 23:22 | IP Logged Quote TStellato


Well Folks,

I sit here at 11pm on Sat night.  Emory and Pete made it here by boat.  Still in the Mood lost an engine on their way out and had to turn back but came by car.  Dave from Good Spirits and Deane and Randy from Freedom came by car.  Vintage Port came by Dinghy.  We ended up with 14 in all.  I think we are on a good start to trying for an early Spring gathering!  It was so great to meet everyone.  It is amazing how we all have the same boat but yet each is different in many ways.  I personally like that.  Now days all the "plastic" boats are all the same.  We have boats that were personally crafted one by one. Maybe all from the same mold, but each has it's own personality.  This is the boating that I grew up with and which we sought out to make our home!  They don't make them like this anymore and that's a shame.  I would not trade my Chris for any new boat on the market!

Let's all work on a Spring weekend,  through the winter.  Pete is the historian and has all the names and address of owners in the area.  Hopefully we are onto creating a great "connie" club.

New members or others just peeking in this forum......It takes participation to get us all together....Log on ....Chat.... Let us know where you are.  Even if you are not close by, we all share a great thing in common.....Need we let the others know that we have the best boats..Lol


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Tony and Vicki
FIVE STAR
1985 Constellation
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Delaware Jim
"Navigator"




Joined: December 27 2006
Posts: 381
Posted: October 21 2007 at 09:01 | IP Logged Quote Delaware Jim

We want to thank everyone yesterday for a truly fantastic day.  I can only echo Vicki's comments above and hope we can continue in our new found friendships and a common "love" of our Connies.

Hoepfully, we will not have engine issues next time and can bring our Connie and "show her off" to the group!

Thanks to our many new found friends!  Our day started off poorly with the engine issues, but finished off on a big high note - as Vicki said, lets work to keep this ball rolling!

Jim & Marie

 



__________________
"Still In the Mood"
1985 Chris Craft 500 Constellation
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rvolker
"Seaman Recruit"




Joined: October 18 2007
Posts: 8
Posted: October 21 2007 at 16:10 | IP Logged Quote rvolker

All,

It was great meeting everyone and seeing some other Constellations.  We look forward to helping to keep this going.  With some advance planning, we hope to actually run our boat to the next gathering.

Thanks to all that participated.



__________________
Randy
Freedom
Point Loma, CA
Constellation 460 - 1986
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Pete37
"Commander"




Joined: November 12 2006
Posts: 2317
Posted: October 21 2007 at 17:03 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi All,

The rendezvous turned out very well.  We only got three boats but three out of five isn't bad and those who hoped to make it by boat showed up by car.

Tony and Vicki Stelato of "Five Star" have their boat docked at Edgewater Boating Center on the South River (the location of the rendezvous) and they live aboard so their trip to the rendezvous wasn't too harrowing.  Not surprisingly, they were the first boat to arrive  It was Vicki who made all the arrangements for the rendezvous.  Good job Vicki!  Tony has just finished installing a humongus (for a boat) 42" TV which automatically pops out of a cabinet upon command.  It's hooked up to a satellite TV dish.  Very impressive Tony.  Vicki has been busy redecorating their new boat (they've only had it for a couple of months) with new curtains, new rugs, a wine cooler, etc., etc., etc.  Again, very impressive Vicki.

I arrived about noon from Kent Narrows on "Interlude".  The weather been pretty nasty Friday night but cleared up just in time for the rendezvous.  My wife Arlene wasn't feeling very well so she opted out of crossing the Bay by boat and showed up by car about 2:00 PM.

Emory and Shirley Shover of "Southern Charm" showed up about 1:00 PM from Mill Creek.  That was the last boat to arrive.  Emory has an intriguing dinghy mount on his transom.  I think I may make one like it for "Interlude" to hold for our jet boat.

Jim Rabey and his wife Marie started out in their boat "Still in the Mood" from the Sassafrass but had some sort of engine problems and had to turn back.  They arrived by car about 2:00 PM.

Ron and Lexi of "Vintage Port" docked on the South River also showed up about 2:00 PM by small boat.

Dave Ross of "Good Spirits" arrived by car.  He and his wife Sally have just become grandparents for the third time.  Their daughter had just had a baby so he couldn't make it by boat.  Congratulations Dave and Sally!

We had one couple, Randy and Deana Volker,  who drove all the way from DC just to attend.  They own a Constellation 460 docked in DC named "Freedom".

After an hour or so of looking at different boats the crowd retired to the Yellow Fin restaurant nearby for snacks and drinks.  The about 4:00 PM back to the boats for more comparing of notes, boats and telling of stories.  Towards sundown everyone congregated on the bow of Tony and Vicki's "Five Star" for more snacks and drinks.  There were so many on the bow that the stern must have been out of the water.

Altogether a very successful rendezvous, especially for a first rendezvous so late in the season.  Having the boats at a dock, rather than anchored out allowed a lot of folks who couldn't make it by boat to get there by car.  We owe a lot of thanks to Vicki who found the dock for the rendezvous and did most of the planning.

Now we are faced with a winter which I hope won't be too long or cold.  We have all promised ourselves that we will get all those nagging maintenance chores on the boat done during the winter but my guess is that next spring most of them will still be there.  Perhaps discussing things on the forum will make the winter seem shorter and guide us through some difficult repair jobs.

I started the forum about a year ago on November 12th but never thought it would be so successful. The forum has now reached 502 posts and 18,570 views.  That's an awful lot of views.   There must be a lot of Connie owners that are looking at our site but just haven't got up the courage to post yet.  If you see any new Connies in your area please let me know and I'll try to look them up and get a letter about the forum out to them.

It was great to finally see many of the people with whom we've corresponded all year and to make so many new friends.  Arlene and I are looking forward to seeing many of you again during the winter to talk about boats, socialize and plan next years rendezvous. 

Keep in touch,

Pete37



Edited by Pete37 on October 21 2007 at 22:12


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Delaware Jim
"Navigator"




Joined: December 27 2006
Posts: 381
Posted: October 21 2007 at 20:14 | IP Logged Quote Delaware Jim

MYstery Solved!

I was rather happy today to find that the starboard engine throttle linkage at the synchronizer had snapped (rusted).  That's the reason I had no throttle control!  The "fix" was relatively painless at a parts cost of about $30 and and 2 hours to identify and repair.  Mission accomplished! When we were discussing yesterday, someone (Pete?) said it was in the throttle linkage or cable. 

Who said this group doesn't have any answers!!!

Again, we were tickled to attend, even if by "land yacht"  Thanks to everyone who were so accomodating and open with their ideas and modifications.  It was greatly appreciated!

I'll also add a "well done" to Vicki for the set up yesterday.  Maybe I should nominate her for "Social Director?

Thanks again

Marie & Jim

 



__________________
"Still In the Mood"
1985 Chris Craft 500 Constellation
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David Ross
"Navigator"




Joined: January 02 2007
Posts: 452
Posted: October 21 2007 at 23:29 | IP Logged Quote David Ross

Hi all rendezvous attendees,

It was great to meet and chat with everyone! A real nice get together. Looking forward to our next event. Just got back from New York City. I've covered some miles the last two days) and met our new grandson, Noah. He is a good looking baby but I guess every grandparent says that. Everyone is doing well. Sally was there for the birth. I had a VERY good week end in many ways! Thank you all for a good time. Even though I didn't have our boat there I was still in Good Spirits.

Dave



__________________
DAVE
GOOD SPIRITS
500 CONSTELLATION (1987)
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David Ross
"Navigator"




Joined: January 02 2007
Posts: 452
Posted: October 21 2007 at 23:39 | IP Logged Quote David Ross

Pete,

How come the total number of posts shown under the forum members name in some cases is not on going in the count?

Dave



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500 CONSTELLATION (1987)
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Pete37
"Commander"




Joined: November 12 2006
Posts: 2317
Posted: October 23 2007 at 15:37 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Dave,

I really don't know why the counter doesn't always work just as I don't know why the picture upload doesn't work.  I've sent emails to Boat US but haven't received any answers.  Eventually I think we are going to have to set up our own forum but until then we'll just have to live with some of this site's deficiencies. 

Pete37

 

PS:  It was nice to meet you at the rendezvous. Tongue  Congratulations on your new grandson!  Embarrassed



Edited by Pete37 on October 24 2007 at 00:17


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Pete37
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Posted: October 23 2007 at 17:18 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi All,

Subj:  More on Transom Soot

This Saturday, I took my boat from Kent Island to the first rendezvous of the Chesapeake Chris Craft Connie Club (CCCCC) in Edgewater, MD on the South River.  CCCCC is an offshoot of this forum.

It was a trip of about 25 miles which I did in a little over two hours at 10.7 knots (1400 rpm).  The trip consisted of 5 miles to the west, then 15 miles south and then another 5 miles west.  The wind was from the west at about 10 knots.  Weather was clear and sunny with temps in the low 70s.  When I got to the rendezvous my transom (which was washed before the trip) was heavily coated with soot.  Some of you may have seen me washing it off at the rendezvous.

The trip back on Sunday in nearly identical weather conditions was 10 miles east, 10 miles northeast and then 5 miles north at the same speed and rpm.  When I got back there was no soot on the transom.  Wind was still from the west at about 10 knots.

Why did I get soot in one direction but not in the other?

Well, on the way out the boat was headed into a 10 knot wind at 10 knots in the first five miles and last five miles.  The velocity of the transom relative to the air was 20 knots so a partial vacuum developed behind the boat.  Strong circular vortices about 2 feet in diameter by 6 to 8 feet high developed at the port & starboard edges of the transom which spun the exhaust against the transom.  For the other 15 miles going south the west wind was abeam and the exhaust was blown clear of the transom.

On the way back for the first 10 mile leg the boat was running eastward at 10 knots with a 10 knot  wind from the west.  The velocity of the air relative to transom was near zero, no vacuum developed and there were no vortices.  Not much smoke hit the transom.  On the second leg the boat was running northeast with the wind from the west.  The wind was hitting the transom at a 45 degree angle at a relative speed of about 3 knots.  Again no vortices developed and very little smoke hit the transom.  On the last leg wind was abeam and no smoke hit the transom.  At no time during this trip did I see any significant amount of smoke hitting the transom.  And, not surprisingly, there was no soot on the transom at the end of the trip.

What are my conclusions.  First, the worst course (the one with the greatest amount of soot accumulation) is running directly into the wind.  Second, running into a 10 knot wind at 10 knots for even 10 miles (1 hour) can severely soot up your transom.  Third, the greater the speed of the air relative to the transom, the greater the amount of soot accumulation will be.  Fourth, running with the wind seems to be the condition which causes the least amount of soot accumulation.

In cleaning off the transom after arriving at the rendezvous, I noted that the amount of soot seemed to be fairly evenly distributed across the transom and extended upwards to the stern railing.  The vortices seem to do a pretty good job of distributing the soot over the entire transom.  But the soot does not seem to spread to the sides of the boat.

What we have here is the marine version of the "station wagon" effect.  This is usually solved by placing scoops on the top of the station wagon's rear door which pump air into the area of partial vacuum behind the station wagon thereby reducing the vacuum.  Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be any simple way to do that on a boat. 

Finally, based upon the above and with prevailing winds from the west, people who traditionally run their boats along east/west courses are going to have the greatest problem with soot while those who traditionally travel in a north/south direction will have the least problem with soot.  This may be why boats on the Mississippi don't seem to report major problems with soot.

Based on the size and strength of the vortices I saw., it seems unlikely that simple exhaust elbows are going to solve the problem of soot accumulation on the transom.  But I'll let you guys pay for the experimentation and then make my decision based on the results.

Pete37

 



Edited by Pete37 on October 23 2007 at 19:51


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Delaware Jim
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Posted: October 23 2007 at 21:46 | IP Logged Quote Delaware Jim

Pete,

I commend you on your analysis of the problem many folks experience - fortunately, the long TNT swim platform tends to keep the soot off my transom, even after 1100 miles from Florida this summer.

I suggest another theory: while sitting, dust and (particularly) salt accumulates on the surface, making it easier for soot to collect.  After you washed the transom on Saturday, most of the surface dust and salt was removed, leaving less "stuff" for soot to cling to.  I suggest continuing your experiments by putting another coat of wax on the transom and do a quick washdown BEFORE going out.  See if the wind effect and "station wagon" effect continues.  Your thoughts?

Jim



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David Ross
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Posted: October 23 2007 at 23:05 | IP Logged Quote David Ross

More on the transom soot,

This problem has been driving me nuts for years. I had all the injectors replaced and a tune up with all adjustments checked and set about 1 1/2 years ago. The work was done by a highly recommended Detroit Diesel certified tech who I was told was one of Johnson and Towers best mechanics  who had worked there for years before going out on his own. Still the same ,if not worse, after all the work and exspense. So he came back and rechecked everything. Said all was just as it should be and I was charged another fair size bill. Then I had an exhaust riser go and had a sooted up engine room. Had that mess cleaned, risers replaced with stainless ones, engine room painted and all hoses,fittings,clamps, etc. replaced. This work went on into the winter so I winterized. In the spring things were finished and upon the sea trial (I was by myself, I could not be there when he was done) all ran well. But there still was soot on the transom. I tried to reach him  but he never responded to e-mails, office and cell phone messages or a letter sent to his office. He must have died.

I have had soot on a trip and none on the way back and vice versa. Simiiar conditions and the transom was washed,cleaned and polished each time. I taped over the swim platform slots and area where it is connected to the transom this July during our three week cruise. The first two destinations (about 135 miles) and no soot. None on the next stop. I was a happy cruiser! Then on the next run soot all over the transom, teak cap rails, cockpit ceiling, fly bridge, aft rail boards and some on the strata glass enclosure. Again similar conditions....????????

Dave



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Pete37
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Posted: October 23 2007 at 23:58 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Jim,

I guess I didn't write up the analysis carefully enough.  I washed the transom on Friday afternoon with Tide.  Then I made the the trip to the rendezvous. The transom was clean at the start of that trip but when I arrived at the rendezvous I had to wash the transom again with Tide because it was filthy.  The next day, Sunday, I made the trip back to Kent Island.  The transom was clean when I started and was still clean when I arrived.

I know that waxing will reduce the amount of soot which collects but that doesn't change the conclusion that the soot collects fastest when running into the wind thereby creating a partial vacuum behind the boat. 

Dust and salt may have some effect on soot collection but apparently not very much because a clean transom turned filthy in only two hours.

Some people claim that resistor wax is quite effective in reducing soot accumulation but I can't confirm that because I haven't tried resistor wax yet.  BTW, Tide is not the best thing to wash transoms with because it is highly alkaline.  I should be using a boat soap.  But if you quickly and thoroughly wash the transom clean with fresh water it does no harm.

It is quite possible that a 4' or 5' wide swim platform will reduce the soot but that doesn't tell us what the effect of an extended or bent tailpipe will be.  Furman has an extended swim platform so perhaps his transom, like yours, stays clean because of the extended swim platform and not because of the extended tailpipes.  The only way we will find whether the tailpipes work is to try them. 

The thing that this test tells us is that the tailpipe test should be made by running into the wind and that an hour or two should be enough to tell whether the extended tailpipe is effective.

Pete37



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Pete37
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Posted: October 24 2007 at 00:10 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Dave,

One thing I learned in my test was how fast the transom can turn filthy.  The trips were only slightly over two hours and if the problem is a "station wagon" effect the transom can be covered with soot if any one hour period on your trip is into the wind.  And if you were running at 18 knots rather than 10 knots the damage could be done in as little as a half hour.

I don't think that my engines changed any between Saturday and Sunday so that sort of indicates that you can't blame the soot totally on engine tune up.  This is about what you have found out.  Tuning the engines doesn't do much good.

Pete37



Edited by Pete37 on October 24 2007 at 00:15


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Monopoly1954
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Posted: October 24 2007 at 09:53 | IP Logged Quote Monopoly1954

Hi Pete,

I have the bent pipes. They are 45 degree rubber elbows. I still have the problem. When the boat was in route north the soot collected daily and was cleaned daily. I did not find any difference. Every day  it was bad.

I would be most interested in a cure. I would install extensions in a heart beat if that was the cure. From the sounds of the captain of the boat with the TNT lift, the extra length platform changes the air flow and stops the soot from coming back on the boat.

If this is the real cure of the problem, I would change my swim platform in a heartbeat. Some extra  space on the platform  would help.

Corey Finkelstein


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Banjoman
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Posted: October 24 2007 at 12:20 | IP Logged Quote Banjoman

Thanks Corey, you just saved me from spending money needlessly.  A friend of mine is a member of the Bayliner Owners Group and he sent me a thread from some of the pilothouse owners (and a few 38 MY owners) who have installed the exhaust extensions and say that they work.  I just wish they weren't so damned ugly.  But like you, I'm ready for a swim platform extension anyway.  I've been considering one for a while now.   I, too, would like more space.  I would also like a ladder leading up to the line-deck like the 501 has that we saw at the rendevous. 

Dave - is your TNT lift a solid deck type?  Meaning: no slots?

Emory



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Delaware Jim
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Posted: October 24 2007 at 13:23 | IP Logged Quote Delaware Jim

Corey, Banjoman et. al.,

I'm the one with the TNT lift swim platform on my 85 Connie.  The TNT does have 4 sets of oval slits to allow water to pass through as it drops.  On the sooting issue, I traveled about 1100 miles from Ft Lauderdale to the Northern Chesapeake in July and had only a very light coating on the port side - no noticeable soot on the starboard side.  This is over a 4 week period where it was not washed at all and run about 20 of the 30 days.

Thought for the group: I understand from a thread on Boatdiesel.com that 6-92 engines originally had a number 140 injector, but was later updated to the 145 injector which produced less smoke and soot.  According to the numbers I have on my engines left by the rebuilder, I still have the 140's... has anyone changed out to the 145's and can report their situation?

Delaware Jim



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TStellato
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Posted: October 24 2007 at 17:23 | IP Logged Quote TStellato


Tony brought the boat up from Lauderdale and while the whole boat needed to be waxed, there was zero soot on the transom.  We seem to have the original teak platform with the slits.  We have taken the boat out about a dozen times since it's been here with 0 soot.  We have run the boat up on plane for short periods during those outings and normally cruise at about 10-15 RPMS.  Again we come back clean.  Believe me I would be out there washing (or nag until it was done!) it if there was a black mess on the back!

I asked Pete the other day if the Connie's had a split shaft or full. Tony found a piece of a shaft in the bilge the other day.  He said his were split.  We getting into the nitty gritty now, preparing for winter.  So far the only major problem is a small leak from the shower.  He had to rip out the head liner in the guest head on the way up and repair a leak.  Now we seem to have another small leak under the sink in the master head.  He is heat taping the pipes in the areas that we cannot leave doors open (like the cabinets under the head sinks). We will drop a few heaters in the bilge and are trying to hold off on winterizing until the weather turns real cold.


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Fantasy
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Posted: October 24 2007 at 18:15 | IP Logged Quote Fantasy

Hi Vicki,

I'm curious, how many hours are on your boat's engines?  I don't get soot either but have not participated in the discussion because I have Detroit 6-71's.  I have a friend with 6-V92's in a '95 sea-ray and he can't seem to beat the soot problem either, even with the D DEC electronic controls.

John



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Pete37
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Posted: October 24 2007 at 19:10 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Vicki,

You say in your last post: "We have run the boat up on plane for short periods during those outings and normally cruise at about 10-15 RPMS."  Did you really mean to say 10-15 knots?  The slowest speed a 6V92 will operate at is about 600 rpm.

Pete37



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Ken27
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Posted: October 24 2007 at 19:53 | IP Logged Quote Ken27

Greetings to all,

Here's my two cents on the soot issue.  I've made two trips with our '85, between  MN and Nashville, about 1100 miles each way.  On each trip we pushed the boat hard the whole way due to time constraints.  Most of the time we ran at 2100 rpm's.  I know, we burned a lot of fuel at that speed but found it necessary.  I've mentioned this before in previous posts, that we had NO soot.  I don't know why.  I asked for comments but nobody responded, maybe no one believed me.  (Just kidding)  About half of the injectors tested weak after the second trip.  All 12 were replaced then.  After reading earlier posts and now, I'm getting worried that maybe we have a problem because there is no soot.  (Kidding again) 

Always here but usually silent,

Ken

 

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Pete37
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Posted: October 24 2007 at 20:20 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi All,

Some boats get soot and some don't which tends to indicate that soot might be an engine tuning related problem since all the Connies have about the same design.

But Dave Ross tuned and retuned his engines to no avail which sort of indicates it isn't an engine tuning problem.

And I have related two trips where soot occured on one but not the other in spite of the fact that the engines were working at exactly the same speed.  The only difference was the wind direction which tends to indicate sooting of the transom is related to the wind direction relative to the boat and not a function of engine design or tuning.

We know that soot is created by trying to burn too much fuel with too little air which causes incomplete combustion and the byproduct of that is soot.

There also seems to be a relationship to the year the boat was built.  Owners of 1985 boats (Still in the Mood, The Good Life and Five Stars) seem to report no soot while newer boats (Monopoly, Southern Charm, Good Spirits and Interlude) report lots of soot.  Furman's 1986 boat Lady (which does not get soot) while not a 1985 boat is a very early 1986 boat.  I need to investigate this aspect more thoroughly.  What I need is a "soot report" from all the boats in the forum.

It may be that the problem is partly caused by some change in engine design.  If that is the case swim platforms and bent exhaust pipes probably won't help. 

We also seem to be getting about an equal number of reports from people who have installed bent or extended exhaust pipes that they do or do not work.

This is a mystery inside a conundrum,

Pete37



Edited by Pete37 on October 24 2007 at 20:55


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