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Pete37
"Commander"




Joined: November 12 2006
Posts: 2317
Posted: June 18 2011 at 20:44 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Vicki,

Keep doing searches for your Robertson Autopilot.  They periodically show up on Google and other web sites.  Price is usually in the $300-$600 range. 

I had my Robertson repaired by a place on the West Coast for about $300.  Check

www.robertsonrepairs.com

Autopilots are kind of complex for an amatuer to repair unless he has special skills.  I think getting your autopilot professionally repaired might be a better approach than trying to patch in parts from another autopilot of unknown condition.

Good luck,

Pete37



Edited by Pete37 on June 18 2011 at 21:12


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Pete37
"Commander"




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Posts: 2317
Posted: June 18 2011 at 21:42 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi All,

Subject: 2011 Connie Library

I bought a new computer this spring and the new one runs Seven rather than XP.  One of the features that Seven has that XP lacked was the capability to record DVDs.  There were a number of third party add-on programs that would write DVDs on XP but you never could be sure they would be compatible with other computers. 

Therefore, I have been distributing the Library on 8GB Flash drives and since they cost about $8 I've been distributing the Library for a charge of $10.  The extra $2 just about pays for the mailing.

The new DVDs made under Seven seem to work on both Seven and XP so I'm fairly confident they'll work on anyone's computer (unless it's extremely old).  So I'm switching from Flash Drives to DVDs which cost about $3 to produce and mail. 

However, the cost is negligable and I'll send one to anyone who wants a copy for free.  Just email your name and address plus the name of your Connie to me at

pminott@&aol.com

and I'll send you a copy of the 2011 Connie Library.  Furman, your copy will be the first as soon as I can pick up some mailing envelopes.

Pete37



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Pete37
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Posted: June 18 2011 at 21:52 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi All,

I have an air compressor which I use on the boat to blow out the water lines during winterization.  They're also useful for a lot of other things.  My only complaint with the one I have is that it's rather heavy and a PITA to lug down to the boat.  But on page 29 of this month's PMY there is a 3 gallon 100 psi oilless pancake air compressor offered by Harbor Freight Tools for only $39.99. It weighs only 21 lbs.

It looks interesting and I'm thinking of getting one.  Does anyone have one of these and are you satisfied with it and Harbor Tools?

Pete37



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Bennett
"Deckhand"




Joined: July 02 2007
Posts: 121
Posted: June 18 2011 at 22:53 | IP Logged Quote Bennett

Subject: Bristol Finish and Master shower leaking

Bristol Finish - I think Bristol is a reasonably good product,
especially relative to its quick application and its hard
surface. I have used this product for years, primarily due
to the ability to apply over a weekend. However, the
product will not tolerate water under the surface and will
start to flake if water is able to soak into the wood - good
chalking and timely repair of any damaged area is a must
to maintain finish.

Master shower- I recently noticed the carpet under the
desk in the office/bed room was wet. Removing the access
panel under the desk, I determined that the water was
coming from the master shower. After removing all of the
teak trim and the mirrored Plexiglas from the shower I
discovered a factory installation error. The problem is that
there was little to no chalking between the Plexiglas and
the tub, furthermore, and the majority of installed chalking
found was on the trim against the tub (after the
Plexiglas/tub gap). This arrangement channeled water into
the gap between the Plexiglas and tub. To repair, I applied
chalk to the Plexiglas/tub gap and to the trim/Plexiglas
interface. There was evidence of minor water damage to
the plywood structure, though no rot.....but given more
time and exposure (or someone that uses their boat much
more than I do) rotting would have been an issue.

Bennett

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Pete37
"Commander"




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Posts: 2317
Posted: June 18 2011 at 23:33 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Bennett,

Bristol's main advantages are rapid application and high build.  As you say, varnishing with Bristol is a weekend job not a weeks-on-end job and for that advantage I'm willing to put up with some limitations.  Some of those limitations are that the wood must be dry and free of oil or grease. 

I would be inclined to avoid using it on teak swim platforms and bow pulpits or any wood structure with lots of seams.  It, like all traditional varnishes, doesn't adhere well to teak and seams are an invitation to moisture ingress.

Fortunately both my swim platform and bow pulpit are fiberglass.  I also suspect that like most varnishes it cannot tolerate extreme heat.  Glad to hear you are having reasonably good success with it.

Sorry to hear of your master bathtub leaks.  Fortunately for me, my Connie has only a master shower (no tub) and it is a modular unit with no leaks (so far). Lack of a tub is no great loss to me.  I and my wife, Arlene, are shower people.  We have two tubs at home but rarely use them.   We get clean in the showers.

Pete37



Edited by Pete37 on June 18 2011 at 23:42


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DMark
"Deckhand"




Joined: July 03 2007
Posts: 131
Posted: June 19 2011 at 09:37 | IP Logged Quote DMark

More on Bristol ...

Discussed Bristol with Washington Marine's varnish expert.  All things considered, his take was that not enough coats were applied.  Again the bottom was for all intents and purposes fine, the surface to the sun was damaged.  Not scientific, but, an opinion from a guys who makes his living doing this at a very high level. 

M


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"NANCY CAROLYN" ('86, CC500)
Home Port - Four Seasons Yacht Club, Cincinnati, OH; Wintering at Washington Marine.
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boatman66
"Commander"




Joined: August 19 2007
Posts: 1132
Posted: June 19 2011 at 11:22 | IP Logged Quote boatman66

D MARK ASK THE GUY IF THERE IS A UV RESISTANT PRODUCT WE CAN USE TO PROTECT THE VARNISH THANK YOU  I AM REALLY CURIOUS I THINK IT IS A GREAT PRODUCT 66

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DMark
"Deckhand"




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Posts: 131
Posted: June 19 2011 at 11:42 | IP Logged Quote DMark

I'll ask, but I don't think we're going to find one.  Here's the situation.  When I had the problem the first time around I called Coating Technologies, the company that makes Bristol, and they came in very firmly that I'd misapplied it.  In other words they backed the product and its application process.  They offered none of the insight we've discussed here about different woods, teak in particular.

Also when I had the platform refinished at great cost, I might add to my dismay, the only maintenance insight offered was a good eye on the finish and rapid response to new problems in terms of sanding and re-coating.  I'd have had a special finish applied if there was one.

I think this is just a problem that remains a problem for enthusiasts.
  My advice 8-12 coats...

Best,
Mark


Edited by DMark on June 19 2011 at 11:44


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Mark & Nancy Dawes
"NANCY CAROLYN" ('86, CC500)
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DMark
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Posts: 131
Posted: June 19 2011 at 12:40 | IP Logged Quote DMark

Oh, one more thing... in the spirit of maintaining the old girls...

Finally got the boat in the water yesterday ... this water/wood rot problem has made a mess of all my early summer plans, more on that escapade later...

As we were cutting between two barges and toward the harbor channel, the oil pressure alarms went off.  Yes, they work!  After some tricky docking maneuvers on one engine we investigated and found that the tiny, copper oil pressure tube running into the pressure gauge on the starboard motor had broken in two, of course spewing about 5 gallons of oil into the bilge.  My first clue was a gen bilge pump that came on way too soon and way too often...  the pressure gauge going to zero precipitously was the clincher though.

So, yet another thing to keep a weather eye on.

M

PS - of course just to make it interesting ... all the high water in the Ohio had created a submerged bar across the channel entry about 100 yds long.  So, warning buzzers, pressure gauges and now the bottom dragging in the channel.  Depth reduced to 2 feet clear with a layer of loose silt.  She became a plow very quickly.  And plow she did - very admirably I might add.  The dock master has plans to have a local tow boat come in and plow the channel to clear the muck, but, that's next week...




Edited by DMark on June 19 2011 at 12:45


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boatman66
"Commander"




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Posted: June 19 2011 at 20:42 | IP Logged Quote boatman66

THANKS DMARK IF I FIND ANYTHING WILL LET THIS SITE KNOW

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TStellato
"Deckhand"




Joined: August 12 2007
Posts: 206
Posted: June 19 2011 at 22:21 | IP Logged Quote TStellato


thanks Pete,

Tony found the same guy.  We were just looking for junk parts to aid him in fixing our remote units.  Master system works fine, but have 2 remotes that each are able to do something different, but not 1 remote to do everything.  Thought pricing he quoted was high for just a remote fix, but he seems to be the only guy advertising as capable to fix them.  So fix vs. new unit seems cheap in comparative.

Vicki


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FIVE STAR
1985 Constellation
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Pete37
"Commander"




Joined: November 12 2006
Posts: 2317
Posted: June 19 2011 at 23:04 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Vicki and Tony,

I'm a little confused about your use of the terms remote and master units. The AP200DL consists of basically two components.  The first is the Control Unit which is that black brick installed on your dash.  The second is the Power Unit buried in the stern near the rudders.

Most Connies have two Control Units; one on the FB and one on the lower console.  There are several devices called remote controls; the F100, JPC100, R100 and S100.  Are you looking for these or are you looking for spare parts for the AP200DL Control Unit?

At the moment my AP200DL is also on the blink.  Last year, I had the display fixed.  It's still working fine but now the autopilot refuses to lock on.  Not sure whether this is due to the Control Unit or the Power Unit.

However, my port engine is receiving a long overdue tune-up and that takes precedence over the autopilot.  When I've paid the engine bills then I'll work on the autopilot.

Pete37



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David Ross
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Joined: January 02 2007
Posts: 452
Posted: June 19 2011 at 23:07 | IP Logged Quote David Ross

I needed to tap the outside fuel valves for swithcing tanks (under the saloon step) with a hammer this week end to get them to change settings. I removed the handles and cover plates and sprayed each with liquid wrench thru the small cut out. Later they worked a little better but got stuck before fully changing position. A tap with the hammer was needed to complete the change. I than removed the handles and tapped the top of the valve stem with the hammer (big mistake) and both locked up so that the a hammer tap on the replaced handle would not move them. I than used the claw end under the handle on the starboard valve and pulled up. It now moved but had a hard spot that I had to tap with the hammer. I sprayed it again and finally got it to move by hand but one spot took a bit of strength. At this point I left well enough alone. Tried the same hammer claw procedure on the port valve but it remained locked with only a slight turn of about 1/8 inch each way and felt like it was hitting an obstacle as I wiggled it. Tried the hammer claw a few more times with no luck. Sprayed it again with liquid wrench. Went into the engine room and sprayed the top of each valve and came home.

I recall some discussion on these valves awhile back. If anyone recalls where I can find that post or has more specific help or has experienced a similar problem I would apprceciate hearing form you. The underside of these valves look like they would be a pain to remove with that locking nut way up in the mass of hoses. Not sure if they can be rebuilt and if they can, if it could be done in the engine room without removing all those hoses. Looks like a bag of worms, both actually and and figuratively. The valve with that housing for all the hoses is probably not available anymore.

Even if I go back to the boat and that port valve freed up or I can play with it some more and get it turning somewhat ok, they probably should be fixed right to eliminate a f more than likely future malfunction.     



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GOOD SPIRITS
500 CONSTELLATION (1987)
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Pete37
"Commander"




Joined: November 12 2006
Posts: 2317
Posted: June 19 2011 at 23:40 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Dave,

Subject: Fuel Valves

Congratulations Dave, you are the first Connie owner to uncover this fuel valve problem.  I guess condolences would be more appropriate.

But if your fuel valves are sticking itís highly likely that the fuel valves on other Connies will do the same.  And if I remember right my Connie was built just before yours.  Well we have one data point; donít tap the valves with a hammer.  I suspect that the valve elements are tapered and tapping them from the top may jam them together harder; but tapping from the bottom may loosen them.  However,thatís not a recommendation.

The first thing to do is to go over the valves with a magnifying glass and see if you can find any manufacturerís brand name or serial number.  If we can find out who made them we can probably get drawings or even spare parts.  Fortunately, boats still use fuel selector valves so someone is probably still making them or is making something that could be used as a replacement.

Iíll start looking on the web.

Pete37



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Pete37
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Posted: June 20 2011 at 09:16 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Dave,

Subject: Fuel Valves

The valves are probably GROCO 6 port fuel valves.  Not sure yet. Still checking it out but CC used a lot of GROCO parts so it's quite probable the valves are GROCO parts.  They cost $149.50 and look like this:

 

Go to

www.groco.net

Look for 6 port valves.  There are specs and drawings.  Looking at the valves they are definitely not something I would want to hit with a hammer.

Talked with Patrick at GROCO.  He says they didn't make the valve because they didn't start making valves until 2001.  But, he says the design was copied from valves that were on the market in 2001.  He confirms "Definitely don't hit it with a hammer!  You'll jam it all to hell!"  I should have a drawing of the GROCO valve soon that will at least give us an idea of how it works.

Pete37



Edited by Pete37 on June 20 2011 at 10:14


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David Ross
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Posts: 452
Posted: June 20 2011 at 09:57 | IP Logged Quote David Ross

Pete,

Actually the fuel valves were hard to turn when I first got the boat. I sprayed them with lubricant from the top after removing the handles and forced them back and forth until they worked pretty well... until now. Do yours turn completely effortlessly?

Not sure what you meant by tapping the valve from the bottom. You can only see the top of the valve stem by from the saloon step and the rest of the valve is encased in the assembly in the engine room.

It appears the whole top board under the step where the vavles stick thru was installed than the stairs built around them or that board is secured from the engine room. That area containing the valves and hoses is completely covered in foil backed insulation which I have not yet removed to investigate further. I can see a nut on the assembly but would not think just unscrewing that would drop the whole unit.  I am hoping upon further investigation I can drop the whole unit with hoses attached and try to rebuild it. 



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Pete37
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Posted: June 20 2011 at 10:29 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Dave,

You can remove the insulation.  It doesn't have any important function and most of it is disintegrating anyway.  Look for manufacturer's identification.  That's the only way you'll be able to locate an exact replacement.

My fuel valve handles work reasonably smoothly. Never had any problem with them.  Don't tap anything!  The nut on top will allow you to remove the male part of the valve but the body is bolted to the stair frame.  Wait until we see what the mechanical drawing of the GROCO valve looks like before you proceed.

Pete37



Edited by Pete37 on June 20 2011 at 10:30


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Pete37
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Posted: June 20 2011 at 11:22 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Dave,

Look at the handle of the valve.  If it's a GROCo valve it will have "GROCO" marked on the handle.  Patrick says GROCO didn't make 6 port fuel valves before 2001 but perhaps he's wrong.  As of now GROCO seems to be about the only company making them.

Pete37



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Bellavita3
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Joined: July 28 2008
Posts: 63
Posted: June 20 2011 at 12:47 | IP Logged Quote Bellavita3

Hi David and Pete,

Sadly you're not the first to experience the stuck fuel valve problem.  I've addressed this issue on the forum a long time ago.  When mine were stuck, I couldn't find exact replacements and ended up rebuilding the entire fuel manifold.  It wasn't a fun process but I built a manifold using 4 5-way valves (4 In's and 1 Out) that allows me to draw and/or return for any tank on the boat.  The new manifold hangs from the bottom of the step in the engine room now.  Good luck in your quest.  I hope you have better luck finding those original valves than I did.

Ron


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1985 Chris Craft 460
Laguna Niguel, CA
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Bennett
"Deckhand"




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Posts: 121
Posted: June 20 2011 at 12:58 | IP Logged Quote Bennett

6 way valves are available from Groco and Anderson Valve

http://www.andersonbrass.com/SELECTOR_VALVES.PHP

http://www.groco.net/08-scks-valves/fv-6-port.htm

Anderson's are around $139 each and Groco $169 each

Bennett

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David Ross
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Posted: June 20 2011 at 14:46 | IP Logged Quote David Ross

Bennett, Ron and Pete,

Thanks for the input. Ron, knew I remembered some chat on the selector valves. I will wait to see what we discover here before proceeding too much further. I assume the center selector valve can be left alone; it does turn but I have never had a need to change the position.



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Pete37
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Posted: June 20 2011 at 17:36 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Dave,

Subj: Fuel Valves

I got a drawing of the GROCO 6 port fuel valve today from Ginger Morrell of GROCO.  It's too large to post but I can post a cross section (below) of the valve which sort of describes how it is put together:

I can email you a copy of the full drawing if you like.

It looks like the way into this can of worms is through the top.  Remove the handle, unscrew the nut on top and slide it off the shaft.  The plug is attached to the shaft with a 1/4-20 set screw.  Remove the miscellaneous springs, washers, etc. and try to pull out the plug by grabbing the shaft.

But if you have driven the tapered plug into the tapered cavity with a hammer, nothing short of nitro glycerin may get it out.

Of course there is no guarantee your valve is identical to the GROCO valve.  But I suspect it is.  Anyway, even if it isn't, the GROCO valve maybe the best replacement available.

I found the Anderson Brass 6 port selector valves at

http://www.andersonbrass.com/SELECTOR_VALVES.PHP

They would probably work too but don't seem to have as simple a way to attach them to a bulkhead.  However, aside from these two items not much seems to be available.

BTW: I found considerably better prices on the web than have been mentioned above.

Pete37



Edited by Pete37 on June 20 2011 at 20:04


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David Ross
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Posted: June 20 2011 at 22:20 | IP Logged Quote David Ross

Pete,

When I remove the handle and indicator plate, the valve shaft sticks thru the step floor board hole with just enough room for the shaft. There is no top nut there. You must be talking about the one I saw in the engine room on top of the housing. Therefore the unit must be mounted in the engine room and would have to be removed from there with the shaft being pulled thru the step floor board. Hopefully this could be done with the hoses still connected. Now the top nut could be unscrewed to get at the inside parts. Again, I have not removed the insulation to see what needs to be done. Too bad Chris Craft did not provide access thru the step.



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TStellato
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Posted: June 20 2011 at 22:54 | IP Logged Quote TStellato


We are looking for parts for a wired remote for the auto pilot.  and also the hard wired remote that is for the bridge remoge.  We have the master unit mounted in the lower salon and a wired mounted remote on the bridge.  In addition, we bought 2 wired remotes, that allow you to walk away from the wheel and adjust course via the hand held wired remote.  But the only way to disengage the auto pilot is from the main unit in the lower salon.  I think that we are going to ship our 2 hand held remotes to the guy in CA and have him make us 1 remote that can do it all.  We went out the other day with no traffic and were able to both sit on the bow and steer (adjust course as needed)  It was nice.


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Pete37
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Posted: June 20 2011 at 23:19 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Dave,

I looked at my fuel valve system today.  The valves are bolted to the vertical surface just below the valve panel. I had hoped that there would be room enough to access the bolt on top of the valve.  But apparently not.

The only way you are going to be able to fix them is to remove the valve handle and then remove the four bolts which are used to hold the valve in place.  The valve should then drop down.  You might be able to work on it then with the hoses attached.

But I would recommend that for a more thorough repair that you get six rubber stoppers to plug the fuel lines.  Take a picture or make a diagram and label each hose.  Then remove each hose, one at a time and plug it with a stopper.  A bucket would be handy to catch spillage.

As soon as you have one valve off check it with a magnifying glass for any identifying marks.  The handles on my valves did not have GROCO molded into them so they are definitely not GROCO valves.

The next step, if you can't find the manufacturer is to find out whether a GROCO (or other valve) has the same type of hose couplings (that's probably standard on a 6 port valve) and whether it will physically fit in the space available.  The crossover valve is different than the port and starboard valves.

From what I saw tonight in my engine room the GROCO valves look very similar to what I have.  I'll try to take some pictures tomorrow.

You may have to fork over $130 to find out whether the GROCO valves will fit.  Don't know whether they would loan you one (with a deposit naturally) for a fit test.  GROCO is located near Baltimore so another possibility would be to take your removed valve over to them and compare it with one of theirs.

Good luck and happy hunting,

Pete37



Edited by Pete37 on June 20 2011 at 23:46


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Posted: June 20 2011 at 23:55 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Tony and Vicki,

Sorry, I can't help you.  I've never seen a remote offered for an AP200DL on the web.  If both of your AP200DL Control Units function; be happy.

Pete37



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Grey Goose
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Posted: June 21 2011 at 09:23 | IP Logged Quote Grey Goose

Hi Vicki

If your wired remote is a R100, there is a good chance I could turn it into a wireless remote with some off the shelf parts. I did it to a friends Cetrek dodger only wired remote.  I would have to break into it and see how it is wired.  If it is a F200 wired remote with compass control, your on your own. 



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David Ross
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Posted: June 21 2011 at 17:10 | IP Logged Quote David Ross

Pete,

That's what I figured, that the unit would have to be removed from the engine room. It is the port valve that is stuck; it looks like it would be easier to work on the starboard one....  My handle does not say GROCO either and since your contact guy said GROCO did not make a valve like that when our Connies were maufactured, it must not be a GROCO.

This week end I am going to lubricate the valve again and try lifting up the handle with the claw end of the hammer and to try and counter the the tapping on the valve. It did not free up last but maybe I'll get lucky; it worked on the other valve.

Thanks for the continuing info.



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Pete37
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Posted: June 21 2011 at 17:21 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi All,

Subject: A Visit From My Friendly Neighborhood Diesel Mechanic

This is what showed up at my boat slip at 8:00 AM this Tuesday Morning:

My port engine had been blowing intermittant blobs of black smoke and I had summoned Bob to do what I thought would be a long overdue tune-up; last tune up was in 2003.

I've been using Bob since 2003 and have found him to be a very savvy responsible guy.  In two hours Bob had discovered the problem was not the engine proper but the turbo and riser as shown below:

The item in the background is a ladder.  Notice that the riser is still connected to the turbo. They were severely corroded together after 8 years of use and had to be removed as a unit.  It took about an hour of banging and prying to get them apart.  The riser was a basket case but we didn't wnat to damage the turbo.

Net cost to replace the riser will be about $800.  This was scheduled for next spring and was no surprise.  However, debris from the riser jammed the turbo so it will have to be overhauled at a cost of about $1500.  This was unexpected but of course it was the failure of the turbo that prompted me to call Bob.

Main lessons from this exercise were that cast iron risers can't be trusted for more than 7 years and even less if the engines have been run at low rpm for long periods. If you have cast iron risers older that you should replace them immediately before they damage other more expensive components of your engines.  And if you have stainless steel risers they should be removed, inspected and cleaned after 7 years.

The autopsy of this riser/turbo failure will be discussed in a subsequent post.

Pete37

 



Edited by Pete37 on June 21 2011 at 18:27


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David Ross
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Posted: June 21 2011 at 17:25 | IP Logged Quote David Ross

Pete,

If I take the valve apart and leave the hoses connected wouldn't fuel come out from where the shaft is removed?  If that is the case, I assume I can not take the valve assembly apart unless I disconect the hoses. Is this correct or is ther a way to leave the hoses connected and take the valve apart?



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Pete37
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Posted: June 21 2011 at 17:49 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Dave,

Subject: Fuel Valves

I don't think there is any practical way to work on the valves without removing the hoses but you may be able to cut off fuel flow by using the center transfer valve if it's working.  However, I'm not sure just how.

Once you take the plug (shaft) out fuel will flow into the valve body.  And, of course, if you remove the hoses you will have to temporarily plug them to prevent fuel from coming out. You'll need at least 3 plugs to cover the fuel sources but having 6 on hand to cover the returns as well would probably be safer.  You don't want any open hoses exposed to let dirt into the system.

Pete37

 



Edited by Pete37 on June 21 2011 at 18:25


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Posted: June 22 2011 at 17:06 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Dave,

Len Likas points out that since the valves are at the high point in the fuel system it's possible you could work on the valves without having to plug the lines. However, I don't know what siphoning effects there might be or whether there would be trouble getting the fuel flowing again. It ought to have about the same effect as running out of fuel.

Pete37



Edited by Pete37 on June 22 2011 at 17:08


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Posted: June 22 2011 at 17:59 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

To All,

Subject: Riser/Turbo Engine Failure Autopsy

The pictures below were all taken of my port riser/turbo assembly on 6/21/11

The riser shown in the picture below is a poorly understood part of a diesel engine.

 It is a tapered two wall pipe about 20Ē long with the walls concentric to each other.  It is bolted to the output of the turbocharger (shown in the background) and its basic purpose is to cool the turbochargerís extremely hot exhaust gases to the point where they will not burn out the rubber exhaust hose (shown at the lower right).

The diameter of the outer wall tapers from about 5Ē at the turbo outlet to about 10Ē at the bottom where it meets the rubber exhaust hose.  An end view of the riser output is shown below:

The second concentric inner wall parallels the outer wall leaving a cooling water passage with a width of about ľĒ.width into which the raw water from the engineís cooling is pumped.  The cooling water input is shown at the upper left corner of the first picture.

As the engine runs the extremely hot gaseous output of the turbo is exhausted into the riser cavity and expands rapidly towards the walls.  Since the walls are cooled by the exhaust water they rapidly cool the exhaust gaseous to a point where they will not burn out the rubber exhaust hoses.  And at the bottom of the riser the cooling water is discharged into the rubber exhaust hoses to further cool the exhaust gases.

The basic purpose of the riser is to cool the exhaust gases to a point where they can be handled by rubber exhaust pipes without burning them up.  It should be pointed out that the volume within the riser cavity is dry.  That is, it handles no water.  The engine cooling water is confined to the passages between the inner and outer riser pipes and is discharged into the exhaust hose only at the bottom of the riser.

But the riser cavity is not completely dry.  It handles no water but the turbo exhaust gases contain a certain amount of smoke, oil and unburned excess fuel.  Some of these elements condense on the cavity walls and the heat of the exhaust gases later convert them to carbon and soot which clings to the walls.  Eventually the walls develop a heavy layer of carbon and soot as shown in the close up of the riser cavity below:  

 The riser is made of cast iron and its exterior shows as a characteristic rust brown in the first picture.  Note that the deposits of carbon and soot have changed the color of the riser cavity to a blue-grey color

This layer is thickest at the point where the turbo exhausts into the riser and eventually gets thick enough to interfere with the turbo exhaust fan blades.  At that point the turbo exhaust fan ceases to rotate and the turbo produces no turbocharging to the engine. 

The photo below shows the interface between the turbo exhaust fan and the riser:

 In this case the extreme amount of carbon on the riser walls has stalled the turbo exhaust fan.  You can even see carbon forming of the turbo exhaust fan blades.  This turbo will have to be cleaned and rebalanced at a cost of about $1500 plus labor

Low speed running produces exhaust gases which are excessively heavy in oil, smoke and unburned fuel.  It therefore accelerates the formation of carbon at the turbo exhaust fan location and eventually jams the turbo exhaust rotor leading to engine failure.

Pete37



Edited by Pete37 on June 22 2011 at 18:15


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Grey Goose
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Posted: June 22 2011 at 18:29 | IP Logged Quote Grey Goose

I find it very interesting that you feel slow running carbons up the
turbo. I remove, clean and inspect my exhaust elbows anually and
have found them to be cleaner since I have been running my boat
slow. Nearly no carbon and rust build up on the exhaust blades of the
turbo either.   I know that I have only had this boat with 6v92TAs for
only 3 years, but I had my last boat with 6-71TI's (same turbo and
exhaust elbow as yours. I have wet turbos now) for 7 years before
that and found them to be much cleaner since I started running them
slower.

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Pete37
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Posted: June 22 2011 at 20:28 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Allen,

That wasnít my comment it was the mechanicís.  But everything I have read seems to agree with him and my own experience seems to confirm it.  I had my first riser blow in 2003 at 1400 hours.  All the cruising up to that time was at 2000 rpm.  I shifted to 1400 rpm cruising in 2005 at about 1600 hours and now in 2011 at about 1900 hours the second riser failed.  Failure occurred at 1400 hours for high speed running but in somewhere between 300 and 500 hours with low speed running.  Seems like the risers (and turbos) last longer with high speed running.

I should point out it's the buildup of carbon in the risers that is causing the turbos to fail so it doesn't make much difference what brand or type of turbos you are using.

I looked at that riser cavity carefully and that gray stuff was hard burned on carbon.  The only way you could clean that up would be by sandblasting.  And thereís no practical way to clean out the cooling passages.  Cleaning your risers annually is a great idea but I donít know of anyone (except you) who does it.  Can I borrow your sandblaster?

Pete37



Edited by Pete37 on June 22 2011 at 22:23


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Bennett
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Posted: June 22 2011 at 20:55 | IP Logged Quote Bennett

Risers

I replaced my cast iron risers with stainless steel models.
The cast iron risers are poor choices as they corrode
quickly from the salt water and the exhaust gases.

My cast iron risers looked very similar to Pete's, however
the build up of "soot and carbon" was not really great.
What it was, was a very rough and flaking cast iron surface
which had a light coating of black soot. Even in Pete's
photo, you can see rust color through the soot.....so I'm
not sure that soot build up is an issue.

I installed my replacements myself with new turbos. The
hardest thing was reconnecting the 8" exhaust pipes.

Bennett

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Pete37
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Posted: June 22 2011 at 22:00 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Bennett,

The tradeoff between cast iron and stainless steel risers is one of cost.  Stainless steel is obviously better but costs a lot more.  How much did your stainless steel risers cost?

The key area of concern is where the turbo exhaust fan mates with the riser.  Rust, corrosion and carbon flaking off downstream of that area does no harm.  It just gets blown out of the exhaust system.

There was obviously more than just a light coat of soot because it was physically jamming the turbo exhaust fan.  . 

I guess it's a matter of interpretation; I see purple areas but I don't see any rust colored areas.  The inside of the riser cavity doesn't handle any water so it would be unlikely that the area near the turbo exhaust fan would be rusty.

Pete37



Edited by Pete37 on June 22 2011 at 22:32


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Grey Goose
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Posted: June 22 2011 at 22:32 | IP Logged Quote Grey Goose

There are a lot of things that I do that nobody else does. I use a
glass beader. And, no you can not.

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Bennett
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Posted: June 22 2011 at 22:44 | IP Logged Quote Bennett

Hi Pete,

I do not remember what I paid for the risers - but
somewhere around $800 to $1000 each. I will have to look
in my old files.

An issue with the cast iron is cracking, leading to internal
leakage which accelerates the corrosion and possible
wetting of the turbo... AND WORSE...soot in the engine
room and air intakes. I also imagine that the spinning
turbine clears any possible accumulation of soot/carbon
when running as this has to occur when the turbo is not
spinning and no output from the engine. However, when
the engine is stopped, salt water vapor (especially hot salt
water) is free to inundate the area.

On my turbo, I felt that the corrosion under the turbine
blades migrated from the cast iron riser as the corrosion
appeared to be reduced as you move away from the riser
interface (also may be accelerated due to dissimilar
metals). I hope this is the case, because if its not, the
turbos are likely to fail with stainless risers.

Bennett



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Pete37
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Posted: June 22 2011 at 22:46 | IP Logged Quote Pete37

Hi Allen and Bennett,

It's interesting, Bennett calls the coating on the inside of the cavity a light coat of soot.  But Allen seems to need to annually treat the inside of his risers with glass beader.  Sounds like the carbon its a little more than a light coat of soot.

Gee, I just can't remember where I left my glass beader.

Pete37



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